no offense. I don't know if my genre names are correct or whatever - I was just thinking that it seems like rap and pop are getting less and less different from eachother.

> By semantics, no.

Ok, I just wanted to be clear. I think it is plain to me now that we have different definitions for the word.

> I do not like it and you cannot convince me to.

I wasn't trying to, that would be silly. I was just trying to convince you that it takes skill and talent. We disagree, but I think we have both made our respective points so I agree, let us drop it. Peace Deadfire.

Then we were thinking along the same lines. I'm not always a clear as I'd like to be.

the punk-ass, self-centered I-am-so-great-and-no-one-helped-me-get-here attitude is pretentious bullshit.

Exactly right. Well put.

Thanks, but a little late. I think we have agreed to go our separate ways on this subject.

Where I used to love a lot of rap, and still listen to the old stuff every now and then ( Run DMC all the way up to Tupac). Most of the new stuff is crap, such as Ludacris's new classic "Move Bitch" in which he is boasting driving drunk at a 100 mph down the free way so get the [censored] out of his way. Eminem, I like some his stuff because its amusing, some is just stupid, and some is just plain disturbing. But the face in rap I hate more than any other, sorry if some of you like him is Puff Daddy or P. Diddy, whatever, just for the fact, he cant come up with anything original, I havent heard one song of his that has atleast an original beat to it.

Sorry to rant, it just pisses me off that someone can make so much money stealing the beat from 80s songs.

the face in rap I hate more than any other, sorry if some of you like him is Puff Daddy or P. Diddy, whatever

But don't you love that highly original song "Come With Me"? What a great guitar part!

So poetry requires no skill?

Of course, poetry requires a great deal of skill.

But what does poetry have to do with Rap?

tanstaafl.

After following this thread (and others like it in the past), I'd just like to say:

With all the people on this board who are very into music (much more than the average joe), there are some of the most close-minded, opinionated people on here.

I'll have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of Eminem, but he's very talented when it comes to his writing skills, rapping skills and overall ability to express himself as he sees fit. Sure, he's got some REALLY bad/scary songs (see "Kim"), but he's got some great, catchy tunes (like "Without Me").

And I've said this before. I'll happily admit to listening to things like Britney Spears, 'N Sync, Limp Bizkit, etc. They all have their own merits.

So, try to appreciate all kinds of music and not make stupid comments like "I hate Eminem" without any justification as to why you made the statement.

Did anyone else think that G'NR performance was horrible? Axl sounded terrible, and Buckethead and the others looked like they were playing out of sync. What was with the braided hair, too? I think I'll pass on their next album...

Bravo svferris. I was originally an Eminem hater, but after listening to a few of his CDs with an open mind, I find that he's a pretty interesting and somewhat talented artist. Of course, his work isn't terribly smart or complicated, but the way that people get all uppity about him is exactly what he is trying to entice in people.

Hey everyone, he's f-ing with you and you fell right into his plan!

His tunes are quite catchy and fun to listen to.

Now boy bands, those are another story...

- Jon

Now boy bands, those are another story...

In general, you're right. But my defense of groups such as 'N Sync is that they can actually sing, unlike a lot of other groups who are just vocally enhanced in the studio. Have you ever heard 'N Sync do acapella? They do a great acapella version of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight".

I think that there's a big difference between close-minded, opinionated, and particular. I, personally, am particular. This means that something has to be well more than mediocre for me to bother listening to it more than once or twice (or course, there's a lot of subjectivity involved in any such qualification). At the same time, I'm also not inclined to listen to music I don't find entertaining, regardless of its quality.

So, I don't listen to Eminem because I largely don't like the mainstream rap ideals (I realize that Eminem is far from mainstream in his lyrics and delivery, but much of the rest of it is quite so, to me). But I don't listen to Britney, 'N Sync, and Limp Bizkit because I don't enjoy that sort of bubblegum pop or nu-metal (which isn't far away from bubblegum pop, in my mind) in addition to the fact that they're crap.

You mean like that awful Chili's commercial?

Even the most spectacular artist can produce crap. And horrible artists can't give a good performance, even given excellent equipment.

I'm inclined to say that even if N Sync can sing well (which I'd debate), their material is so awful and so uninspiredly performed that it makes no difference.

Edit: BTW, Lance Bass to continue to plague the face of the Earth. My favorite quote from the article: ``In Bass' place on the trip will be a cargo container.'' Kinda sums it up, huh?

I also think some of his songs aren't half bad. But, well, I hate eminem.

For me, the reason was what I think I said before, yes, he always talks about what he thinks of people, but now it seems like all he does. He doesn't seem to talk or sing about much other than what the critics think about him. That's cyclical, and gets very boring. He just seems like such a whiny little bitch. Pardon the language, but he is. And his little display with Moby at the VMAs shows that.

Just because we say that we dislike the music doesn't mean we haven't listened to any of it.

Britney Spears and clones? Boy bands? sorry, I don't see any merits there. In that case anyone here can honestly say that those people have no talent. Basically, they're all people who were probably star singers at school or in their choir, but not pro-level. Then, simply because they look good, they are picked to be superstars. I'm sorry, but it would take a lot to convince me that Britney and Backstreet are anything more than creations built on good looks.

Of course, I just know that people are going to look back on them with the same nostalgia that we have for the Monkees now. Except at least they were more fun.

I agree and I don't think that expressing an opinion about musical tastes makes someone closed-minded or opinionated.

I happen to like discussing topics on this BBS where we disagree. In the past we were always able to have friendly disagreements that did not erupt into flame wars and name calling. Unfortunately, for some people, putting down a favorite artist is akin to starting a religious discussion, so that's kind of hard in any situation...

Yeah. I think some people take it all a little too seriously. But sometimes that's easy to do when you're talking to a faceless set of words on a computer screen.

Hey Tony, Rush sucks!

Although I did find it interesting that, just minutes after signing off of this BBS Monday evening, I had a discussion with my wife and one of my daughter's friends about Eminem. The kid's father (who is also a musician like me) won't let her buy an Eminem album on the grounds that he's a talentless two-bit hack. So my wife asked me about Eminem and I expressed a similar opinion, and it was just funny...

Hey Tony, Rush sucks!

You are incorrect. I will leave it at that.

See? We can express differences of opinion just fine on this BBS.

His behaviour at the VMAs was terrible. Since I love Moby, I was kind of upset that Eminem took that kind of attitude. It's funny to read Moby's take on it. Check out his journal at www.moby.com.

He CAN be a whiney bitch I agree...

I think of Eminem along the same lines as I think of bubblegum movies. Fun to watch, but I'm not expecting anything fantastic.

- Jon

It's fine to disagree, but at least have some kind of backup to your statement. That promotes a better "discussion", and not just arguments.

And, yes, Eminem does need to write about something else before he gets old and stale.

Okay, I didn't watch the VMAs (because they're even more corporate oriented than most awards), and I'm totally lost on this whole Eminem/Moby deal, and I can't seem to find anything that gives me any info beyond the fact that Eminem was a jackass to Moby. Is there any reason for this? Can someone fill me in? (Honestly, I don't know why I even care.)

> So, try to appreciate all kinds of music and not make stupid comments like "I hate Eminem" without any justification as to why you made the statement.

Personally, the way I see it is that "I hate xxxx" is not something that needs justification. This is a personal opinion, based on nothing more than your own feelings and tastes. it ultimately means nothing in any kind of global sense, it is local to you and your attitudes. You can can say you hate them, and I can say I love them, and neither of us is wrong. It is the more universal comments that I don't like; that someone sucks or is talentless. This is a global assertion that demands that everyone recognize its validity and gives no room for anyone else to feel differently. This goes beyond merely stating your opinion, instead of saying "I feel this way for this", you are stating "this is truth". That, to me, is arrogance and lack of respect for others.

Hehe, yeah I like Moby's site. It's like a step up from a cam-girl's site. Complete with diary, pics and everything

I am not exactly sure of the details, but Moby has been openly critical of Eminem's anti-gay lyrics for a while.

So a long time ago, Moby said something about Eminem being misogynistic. Then Eminem "dissed" Moby on a song - "Moby/ you can get stomped by Obie, you 36 year old bald headed fag blow me/You don't know me, you're too old let go its over, nobody listens to techno".

At the VMA, I guess Eminem thought that Moby was booing him when he went up to get an award. Eminem said something about "yeah, I'd hit a guy with glasses..."

That's basically it.

- Jon

I didn't watch the VMAs (because they're even more corporate oriented than most awards)

Now there's something I can agree with. I can't stand MTV. They barely play videos anymore. When they do play videos, it's only what they get paid to play (much like radio).

svferris, I assumed I didn't need to supply any arguments to backup my point of why I don't like him. If you think I'm closeminded, then that's fine, I guess I am. I still don't like him

Sadly, VH1, always being a trend behind MTV, is following in its footsteps. I've loved VH1 for the past 3 years, but now they've gone to mostly rap (I don't like the genre, and I'm sure a lot of people don't, so why play nothing else?), and they've now coming out with shows that have nothing to do with music. Has anyone seen the Rerun Show? It's horrible!

Anyway, I still watch old episodes of Behind the Music, but considering they only seem to repeat about 4 of them, there's not much point in it. In fact, I was shocked to look at the homepage for BTM. I had no idea that they had half these episodes. My personal favorite, Blind Melon, has probably only played once, on its airing.

Anyway, it's not like any of my favorite artists have music videos on those channels.