http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=36471

- Jon

I don't really think tivo has too much to worry about really. The one thing that it seems all the PVR zealots can agree on is that tivo has the most user friendly interface. As PVR's become mainstream and less of an early adopter market, they're going to need the UI more than anything. If you check out the tivo community boards, you'll find the only other online community i've found of people that buy extra expensive electronics and keep them in the closet just in case...

Matthew

PS: My next pay check is going for a tivo, can you tell?

PS: My next pay check is going for a tivo, can you tell?

Yep.

Welcome to the club. I just bought another, and I'm thinking of getting a few more, since I keep finding them on eBay for <=$250. eBay = Evil. :P

The article alludes to set-top-boxes with PVR capabilities, but it is already a reality. My local cable provider (time Warner) rents scientific America boxes with PVR capabilities.

http://www.twrochester.com/products/dvr.cfm

At $10/month, it may be the way the content industry gets back at ReplayTV and Tivo.

TiVo's are selling over here for £99 if you can find a store that still has stock, normally they sell for £230.

There are a few rumours I've read why they are doing this:
1. The MKII is going to be released here.
2. They are about to go tits-up.

Personally, I hope it's either 1. or none of the above. Going back to TV without TiVo would be like ditching the empeg and installing a radio-cassette. <homer> Mmmm, Radio Aagghhhh</homer>

My local Dixons spotty youth claimed that the £99 stock clearance was because they didn't take off in the UK. I bought one anyway - until we get RTV in Europe £99 is a great deal. I'm not going to get lifetime service though, just in case that service goes away

Rob

I read somewhere a rumor that there is an unlocking code so that the TiVo would continue to be useful (probably only with a manual recording function that acts like a VCR) in the event that the company ever went belly-up. Anyone think this might be true?

they're actually distrubuted brute-forcing the unlock code for the tivo as we speak.

I understand that an unsubscribed TiVo with the current 2.5.x software can make timed recordings just like a VCR although I've not been able to verify this because my subscription is active.

It's discussed here in terms of backdoor codes (from a link that dbrashbear posted in another thread), here's an extract from that site:
C-E-C Skip-to-end - Turns on "Boat-Anchor" mode. This convinces the TiVo that it should behave as if it has no guide data. Boat Anchor mode is automatic when the unit runs out of guide data, so this is probably only for testing purposes. A bit useless, really.

Upon reflection, regarding an earlier post here, my guess is that the subscription part of TiVo must surely be the real money maker and as such, even if TiVo (the company) went down, the appointed receiver would regard the subscriber list as an asset and sell it on. I wouldn't like to guess if that also applied to those with the lifetime subscription.
Additionally the TiVo community forums, although possibly just the reputable ones, ban any talk of service theft. Perhaps if the worst happened they would lift the ban and which would facilitate the community creating it's own TV guide.

These are different unlock codes... The one that's being brute forces is the "everyday" unlock code that enables certain power user and debugging features.

The rumored "unlock code" for when tivo goes tits-up is one that lets it function in "Boat Anchor Mode" without nagging the user endlessly that they should subscribe to the service. Now, if this is really a code that exists today or something that would be put into the doomsday software release is a question that hasn't been ansewered. Of course, if tivo goes under, all the tivo hackers will create some sort of guide data replacement in short order.

Matthew

they're actually distrubuted brute-forcing the unlock code for the tivo as we speak

Uggh. If that's really something to steal service from TiVo then I wish you hadn't posted that. I guess the BBS admins wouldn't appreciate it much either.

Edit: Ok, so it's arguably harmless - looks like the panic's over, forget what I said

they're actually distrubuted brute-forcing the unlock code for the tivo as we speak.


Unlock code? I don't understand.

I can use my TiVo in manual recording mode (i.e., specify channel number, start/end time, whether it is one time only, every day, or every week) like a VCR, the way it is now.

What am I missing here?

tanstaafl.

If your TiVo runs out of program data, it supposedly becomes very difficult to work it like a VCR. Also supposedly, those of us who were fairly early adopters don't get stuck with that limitation, because it was initially advertised that you could continue to work it as a VCR in such a case, until they realized that they made their money on the service and not the hardware.

Yeah I can vouch for these comments.

My 2 Tivos have "fake" guide data until Jan 2011 (day number 15000), but if they don't "phone home" for a period of about 30 days (+/- a day or so) then they get very persistent about subscribing to the Guide Service :-))

Of course, thats no longer a problem in my setup as I fixed it early on and now my Tivos never phone home and never complain that they haven't.

There are 2 "modes" of operation in the Tivo and without any guide data and no phoning home - the default behaviour is pretty limited, you can record stuff by time and channel (either one offs or repeating recordings aka Manual Season Passes).

But you can only record by using the record button for half an hour at a time - you can extend this up to 1.5 hours longer but thats you lot. If you want longer you have to create a manual recording.

There are some "flags" in the Internal Tivo database (MFS) that indicate whether your Tivo is a older one that was allowed to work without guide data as a VCR or not. these flags are enabled only if your Tivo was upgraded from early releases of Tivo software (meaning it was/is an older Tivo that is allowed to operate in this mode).

For folks who bought their Tivos after the "mandatory" guide service requirement (or we'll nag you to death...) then the probable "unlock" keystrokes will simply make your Tivo behave like the older Tivos do and work without guide data or phoning home regularly - but thats a little better than a VCR, but not much.

As was said earlier, its unlikely that any receiver of a failed "Tivo Inc" would allow the unlock code (whether software or remote control keystrokes) to be released to the public becuase if they did then the value of the Tivo Inc assets would be cut by 1,000% or more.

The ability to insert guide data scraped from TVGuide.com-type places already mostly exists, from just the efforts of 'rogue' hackers trying to make data for Canadian use. If TiVo goes under, the more prominent hackers (like tridge of Samba fame) will have a good roll-your-own guide data system working very quickly and TiVo users will become an Amiga/Empeg-like cult.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

In reply to:

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The ability to insert guide data scraped from TVGuide.com-type places already mostly exists, from just the efforts of 'rogue' hackers trying to make data for Canadian use. If TiVo goes under, the more prominent hackers (like tridge of Samba fame) will have a good roll-your-own guide data system working very quickly and TiVo users will become an Amiga/Empeg-like cult

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I have seen assurances on the AVS forum that this would also be possible (and probable) for ReplayTV. Some of the guys on the forum are already ex-ReplayTV employees and seem to have a solution already in mind.

Lets hope that it doesn’t come to that for either company.

There are some "flags" in the Internal Tivo database (MFS) that indicate whether your Tivo is a older one that was allowed to work without guide data as a VCR or not

Well, that's something I didn't know! Of course, it's becoming apparent that the older I get, the less I know. I mean, when I was in High School, I knew everything.

How could I tell if my TiVo was an "older" one? It is just about two years old now...

tanstaafl.

Its not just the age of the Tivo you have, but also what software release it came with.

AFAIR, if you have a Tivo that you bought *new* with 1.3 or earlier software on it, you should be able to use it as a dumb VCR.

Tivos that came "ex-factory" (new) with 2.0 or later software on them do not have this capability enabled. They require Guide data to work, fullstop.

There was a long post from Tivolutionary on this point in the AVS Forum about 18 months ago on spelling out this in mind-numbing detail.

Of course, he did not explain how they implemented the mechanism, but I've seen the flag in the MFS database during my poking around it.

I have a feeling its in the /Setup MFS Object.

If you really want to know I can find out and let you know.

But if your Tivo came brand new with 2.0 software on it - you're SOL, putting the flag into your MFS database may cause more problems than it solves.
Still if your Tivo never phones home again then Tivo won't be able to find out.

You can work out what release of software was on your Tivo by looking at the Serial number sticker (that you were supposed to stick in the back of the paper manual that came with it).