It might be okay to discount all people who weren't 5'6" tall, but that doesn't even make sense. (For example, Hitler wanted to get rid of all Jews and all people who weren't blond-haired and blue-eyed, despite the fact that he was quite swarthy and ethnically Jewish.)

It is never okay to assume something about someone based on factors that person cannot control.


I wasn't talking about burning or gassing all people who are 5' 6'' tall. I meant focusing the available resources of the INS to more closely investigate the backgrounds of immigrants who fit terrorist profiles.

Join the ACLU.

Hehe, I do like the Onion. I think this article is on point for this discussion too:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3847/bill_of_rights.html

Nor was I. The problem is that terrorists don't fit so easy a profile. What about (again) Tim McVeigh or Richard Reid or Ted Kaczynski? And I'm not willing to let this sort of racial discrimination start.

The problem is that most of the reasons you cited were reasons you'd rather live in the US than elsewhere. Few of them touched on whether Arab immigrants should be detained under these circumstances nor whether we should try to improve the US or if this tack is an appropriate way to do so. I personally think that the US is amongst the better nations on the globe when it comes to this sort of stuff, and I don't want it to lose ground.

"To prove to us the size of your penis?"

Your "Profile" of me is correct. I do have a penis. Guess profiling does work.

"The problem is that terrorists don't fit so easy a profile. What about (again) Tim McVeigh or Richard Reid or Ted Kaczynski? And I'm not willing to let this sort of racial discrimination start. "

Better get a mirror, it’s already started. Profiling is not 100% correct but it has helped the authorities apprehended a lot of criminals (serial killers come to mind). I’m sure the FBI had a profile of Ted Kaczynski and I bet it was not too far off. Like always, being “politically correct” mean ignoring reality and the facts.

I also suggest you get a life, put down the keyboard and open you eyes to the real world.

Your "Profile" of me is correct. I do have a penis. Guess profiling does work.

Only because there are about 5 or 6 of us around here who DO NOT have one. At least not one of our own.

Or anyone else's.

Agreed - Empeg geek profile:

«» Age 20-40
«» White male
«» Computer related job or hobby
«» College degree – probably Computer Science

And by the looks of it a liberal. Luckily our profile does not include terrorist acts or we may too be rightly detained for questioning.

If these aliens they don’t like how they are being treated GO HOME. We have enough people here anyway. But I’m sure they won’t because it’s worse where they came from.

Ah, so your ethnic origin is native american, then?

It's one of the many things that has always puzzled me about Americans, their attitude to their own history. IE, "I'm of Irish/Polish/Dutch/Spanish/English/Russian/etc origin, my family came here 1/2/3/4/etc generations ago, we've done really well but respect our roots, and we SURE as HELL don't want no foreigners coming to OUR country!"

Foreigners usually being whoever the particular ethnic group it's currently fashionable to hate, in many cases even if they've been in the US for several generations. It's odd, really. Considering that the US was mainly settled by immigrants from Europe fleeing persecution for religious or ethnic reasons, why is so much of the population (and more often than not official policy) xenophobic, paranoid, and isolationist?

I'm not trying to be (particularly) offensive, but I am curious.

pca

In reply to:

---

Agreed - Empeg geek profile:

«» Age 20-40
«» White male
«» Computer related job or hobby
«» College degree – probably Computer Science

---

Oh my god <sobs> , you're right, i've got 3 out of four (Broadcast Engineering degree).

My ancestors had a very hard time when they came to America. Much worse than immigrants now. There was no welfare, public services or Food banks. But like most of the aliens here now, it was better than what they left behind. I did not ORDER them home (who the hell am I anyway) but they should NOT be given everything on a silver platter. Especially if they might cause harm to the US. A little questioning should not be too much to ask. If it is, GO HOME. I’m sure when the authorities ask questions in most Arabic countries they bring a club instead of a pencil.

I do not think it is the USA’s responsibility to feed the world, house the world or otherwise support the WORLD. If aliens want to come to the US, work, pay taxes and be good citizens go for it. But there are limits to what our land can support in the way of population increases. I do not think we should invade Iraq because it is none of our busness. Not because they might blow up their neighbors. Chances are their neighbors hate us for some reason anyway.

Yea, and I'm just an ignorant bigot (as some probably think).

A professional "Profiler" could probably really nail us down.

But unfortunately the police must pull over just as many 80 year old grandmothers to search them for bombs as they do Arab college students in rented vans heading for the White House. If they don’t, they’ll get accused of racial profiling and sued for millions of dollars. And when they win you know who pays the bill, the American taxpayer.

Bingo - 4 for 4. Oh, and add $40-$100K /per year to the list.

Add that to the list and then I get 1 out of 5. Guess I won't have to worry about being rounded up when the cops are looking for an empeger

2 out of 4.

One of the things that bothers me a lot about the 'expired visa' issue is that the INS can be terrible.

Case in point. Me. I am still waiting for the removal of the conditional status on my permanent residence (green) card. My green card should have expired in June, and according to the date stamped on it, did. INS have bery strict requirements on the timing of my dealings with them, and I was only allowed to apply for the 'removal of conditional status' in the 90 days prior to expiry. Yet they don't reciprocate at all. I had to phone them when the card expired because I hadn't heard anything. They promised a letter, that never showed up. I phoned them again, and I then got a letter, that I have to use in conjunction with my expired green card to get back into the country.

Yes folks, that's right. When I return to the US after my Christmas visit to my parents, I will be using an epxired green card and a piece of paper to gain entry. Just how can that be good for security?

What makes this worse is that INS visas aren't cheap to apply for, and no one would accept such a level of service in the business world.

For the record, anyone entering the US on a permanent visa (eg fiance, marriage etc), is automatically fingerprinted. The FBI probably know more about me than my parents..

But there are limits to what our land can support in the way of population increases.

There's plenty more room over there. Some figures (taken from the CIA world fact book):

USA: 280,562,489 people, 9,158,960 sq km = 30 people/sq km
UK: 59,778,002 people, 241,590 sq km = 247 people/sq km
Bangladesh: 133,376,684 people, 133,910 sq km = 996 people/sq km

So, with these figures, you could get another 1,981,700,631 people (that's an 8-fold increase in population) into your country, and still only have the population density of the UK.

I’m sure the FBI had a profile of Ted Kaczynski and I bet it was not too far off.

Yeah, but the FBI didn't put go around putting everyone with post-grad qualifications in Mathematics behind bars as soon as they worked that out, though, did they?

“So, with these figures, you could get another 1,981,700,631 people (that's an 8-fold increase in population) into your country, and still only have the population density of the UK.“

That elbowroom is nice.

4 out of 4, but I'm not a liberal, so if you officially add that to your list I'll be alright.

"Yeah, but the FBI didn't put go around putting everyone with post-grad qualifications in Mathematics behind bars as soon as they worked that out, though, did they?"

No, and I'm not going to say I agree with the actions in the originating article here. However, if the police do question or look into people who fit a profile that happens to include nationality, I have no problem with that. It's when it goes beyond suspicion to treating people as guilty that the problems begin. I think that we've treated people pretty badly because of 9/11, both in and out of our government. However, that doesn't mean that our police shouldn't look harder at people who fit the terrorist profile.

This whole issue of rounding people up and putting them in jails is a little different, though. I do believe that we can't let aliens simply come over here and live; if we have rules they should be enforced. That being said, its pretty clear that the INS isn't enforcing the laws equally or justly, and that I have a problem with.

As far as the original article. First off, don’t believe everything you read. I’m sure it was basically accurate but you can tell it was written with a bias (not good reporting). Also, as many pointed out, why was it not in most of the major (liberal) news reports. It probably was not that big of a deal. The article focused more on emotion than anything else (they didn’t even report a firm number). I’m sure that many people were jailed (and not for 20 years). However if you are to immediately round up that many people (and it must be immediate or the real terrorists would escape) what are you going to do with them? They have to be detained somehow until all are questioned. I’m sure if I were in that mix I’d be pissed off too. No one likes to be detained and accused of being a terrorist. These are necessary inconveniences that we need to insure more buildings don’t come tumbling down. I see many bumper stickers that say “Never Again” well, we have to take steps to insure we live up to that statement.

I guess now I am trying to change minds.

(they didn't even report a firm number)

That's not the fault of the reporting -- the INS refused to tell anyone.

“That's not the fault of the reporting -- the INS refused to tell anyone.”

“They didn’t tell me.” - I would expect that answer from my eight year old not a reporter.

If at first you don’t succeed, give up. Or better yet sensationalize and make up some numbers. AT least they told us they were guessing.

"They didn't tell me." - I would expect that answer from my eight year old not a reporter.

What would you have them do... sit on the story until they have exact numbers, so that they can have a precise number for a story that'd be 6 months old by the time it got released? Get real.