Hi all!

I'm really enjoying the mk2!!! The only gripe I currently have with the player is a *really* bad turn on/off thump... Is anybody else experiencing this? In my previous deck, I didn't have any thump. It's so loud that it freaks out some of my friends....

The thump is much louder when the unit is shutting off...

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Eddie

Sounds like you don't have your constant-power lead hooked up properly - the mk2 will only do this if you totally kill the power to it; you should run constant power to it, and just use the ignition line to turn it on/off..
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

I'm almost positive I've got the constant power and ign power hooked up correctly... I'll hook up a voltmeter to it later this week to verify. The reason why I believe it's hooked up correctly is because I used the pinouts of my previous deck, to which I am 100% sure the power leads were correct. I'll let you know later how it was hooked up... any other ideas though?

Eddie
(reg user #53)

Yeah, what he said...

Just as an aside, I manage to create a power off thump when installing my new amp/speakers... When I put my head unit/crossover back into the dash, I managed to apply x ft/lbs (lb/ft?) of torque to the front right RCA connector of my crossover (where x is some number greater than the tensile strength of the circuit board.)

It made a terrible thump whenever I turned the unit off.

Valuable lesson learned, don't finish up an install at 2 a.m. when you're in a hurry to cram stuff back in the dash. Broken crossover = bad sound / nasty thump / less $$ for an empeg...

-Trevor

(p.s. can you tell I decided to play with emoticons?)

If it's not a problem with the constant power/ignition power leads, could you give us a more detailed picture of your wiring scheme including the amps? And what model car it is?

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Tony Fabris

Okay, I'm confused now (yes, again). I was under the impression that you could either have the empeg hooked up so that is was always on or it was turned off by the ignition and you couldn't turn it back on after that. Is this how it is? Is it possible to be able to turn it off with the ignition but be able to turn it back on without the key in at least accessory mode?

DiGNAN
13653

I was under the impression that you could either have the empeg hooked up so that is was always on or it was turned off by the ignition and you couldn't turn it back on after that. Is this how it is? Is it possible to be able to turn it off with the ignition but be able to turn it back on without the key in at least accessory mode?

Actually, it's better than that. With the Mark 2, they've added a really cool software feature: When you turn off the ignition, the Empeg goes into sleep mode without fully powering down. You have about a minute to wake it up again with a button press if you like. If you leave it alone for long enough, then it fully powers down.

In the days of the Mark 1, since there was only one power wire, this wasn't possible- you had to choose which power wire you connected the Empeg to: ignition or always-on.

This is one reason I find the turn-off-thump problem puzzling. If he's got a Mark 2, then the Empeg is just going into sleep mode and deactivating the amp remote wire. There shouldn't be hardly any thump at all unless there's something screwy about the car wiring or the amps- for instance, if the amp remote wire is connected to the ignition wire.

Oh, I just thought of another thing the thump-victim should try: Are his amp gains set too high? If so, then tiny little thumps could be unnecessarily amplified. Tune the amp gains so that 0db on the Empeg is the loudest you'll ever play it.

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Tony Fabris

I don't know if this is expected, but FWIW I get a thump when I pull the player out of the dash while it's playing...

Oh - and BTW - Tony, I love your Filk!

Bill B.
Mk.2 SN 080000183 - 18 GB / Green

I don't know if this is expected, but FWIW I get a thump when I pull the player out of the dash while it's playing...

I don't think there's anything that could be done about that.

Oh - and BTW - Tony, I love your Filk!

Thanks! There's a convention next month I'll be at, my neighbors are the guests of honor and their stuff is much better than mine. Although that doesn't do you much good since you're in Orlando and the con is in LA...

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Tony Fabris

Since my problem is the same as the original poster's ,
I'll give full details...

Car : Volvo V40 1.8i 2000
Empeg : Mark 2 #080000144
Amp : Caliber 80.5

My empeg is connected to :

permanent power : 12V
ignition sense : 12V if in state I or II, 0V if in state 0
lights sense : Varying between 3V and 10V
phone mute : Connected to Nokia 7110 in Nokia Carkit
Amp remote on : 12V if empeg is powered on

When I insert the empeg in it's sled when ignition is off (state 0) the player will not start up. When changing to state I the player boots, the amp get's powered (I hear a light pop), then the empeg goes into standby. Turning the knob or pushing any button will make it active again and the amp is powered again (light pop). When switching off the ignition (state 0) the empeg completely shuts down and a hard Thump is heard.... Note, I didn't start the car, I just switched from state 0 to 1 and back again...
I measured all voltage with a simple multimeter, but couldn't find any voltage changes during statechange...


Frank van Gestel

Interesting. It shouldn't make a loud thump in that case.

Question: Did you have a previous stereo hooked up to the same amplifier? Did the previous stereo make the amplifier thump?

Second question, if you unplug the RCA cables from the amplifier (but leave everything else hooked up exactly the same) do you get the thump in that situation?

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Tony Fabris

Just a minute; testing now...

Tested and no thump if RCA cables are disconnected.
The empeg completely loses power it seems...
Maybe the standard volvo 12V permanent power line isn't completely permanent; I'll try to take the 12V from the amp to the empeg (the amp is directly connected to the battery).

For your first question : No, the amp is brand new...

Edited by fvgestel on 29/8/00 08:10 PM.

The empeg completely loses power it seems...

The empeg should go from "on" to "standby" when you turn off the ignition. If it completely loses power when you turn off the ignition, then that could be the reason. But I thought this had already been ruled out.

Also, is the Empeg running the latest 1.0 software?

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Tony Fabris

Yes I am running the 1.0 version software and I tested the direct 12V line this time, but with no result... :<

I am sure there is constant 12V on the line, though the empeg stops immediately; led goes out and harddisk stops abruptly

How about when you put the empeg into the sled while the engine is off; should the empeg power on?

Frank van Gestel

I am sure there is constant 12V on the line, though the empeg stops immediately; led goes out and harddisk stops abruptly

Well, that's what's causing the thump. It should just go into standby mode at that point, the hard disk should spin down gracefully, etc.

How about when you put the empeg into the sled while the engine is off; should the empeg power on?

Not so sure about that one, I don't own a Mark 2.

I tested the direct 12V line this time, but with no result...

Blown fuse on the constant 12v line, perhaps? Triple-check your wiring and fuses. Look in the Empeg's owner's manual for the color-coding on the hookup wires, and triple-check that the wires are really correctly hooked up. How sure are you about the car's wiring pinouts?

Make sure to let us know when you resolve this, because I want to put it in the FAQ when we come to a conclusion.

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Tony Fabris

The install was done by CASK www.cask.nl (local car-hifi specialist). I spoke with the installer and he convinced me it was installed the way described in the manual. (I double checked by reading the voltage on the lines with a multimeter)

The main problem is : empeg stops functioning after ignition sense changes to 0V

Frank van Gestel

Here's one thing to test for - does the blue led in the upper right of the empeg stay on when you kill your ignition? If not, then you don't have it wired properly.. If you can, test out the always-on-12V, and see if it really is always on...

-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

Frank,
Drop me a message or an e-mail ith your telephone number and we'll compare behaviour of the player. I bet you have ignition and 12V permanent reversed.

Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

I bet you have ignition and 12V permanent reversed.

If that were the case, wouldn't it keep playing after the ignition was turned off? Seeing as how I just posted a FAQ to that effect, I hope that's not the case.

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Tony Fabris

I am sure there is constant 12V on the line, though the empeg stops immediately; led goes out and harddisk stops abruptly

This sounds like your 12v is NOT permanent. This shouldn't happen unless the empeg receives no power at all.

How about when you put the empeg into the sled while the engine is off; should the empeg power on?

If I recall, mine powers up for a second (I think I see the logo, etc.) and then goes back to sleep mode. I'll post an edit in a half hour or so when I go home.

-Trevor

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Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349

(..) ignition and 12V permanent reversed. If that were the case, wouldn't it keep playing after the ignition was turned off?

I don't think so. When ignition and permanent are reversed, the player would never shut itself down as the feeler wire will always see 12V. At the same time, it'll use the ignition wire to feed itself. Thus, when ignition is killed, the rug is pulled on the juice and the player will run out of power before it can shut itself down. Hence the thump . . .

Start-up sequence / flashing leds etc will tell.

Seeing as how I just posted a FAQ to that effect, I hope that's not the case.




Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

Thus, when ignition is killed, the rug is pulled on the juice and the player will run out of power before it can shut itself down. Hence the thump

I see your point. However, if the ignition sense wire can also pull the primary juice to feed the player without the yellow wire, then my theory (blown fuse on yellow wire with a correctly wired player) could also explain it.

Hugo, if the player is only getting juice through the ignition wire (i.e., if the yellow wire isn't getting any juice), then will it still run? And if so, can the software also tell the difference? In other words, if they have only the ignition wire hooked up but not the permanent wire, or if they have them backwards, then perhaps the player could display a (defeatable) warning message?

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Tony Fabris

If there is no power on the yellow wire but there is power on the orange one, the mk2 will run and it cannot tell that there is no power on the yellow wire (permanent feed).

This is being addressed with a slight change to the main board for the next 1000 units - don't panic, there's no extra functionality just a design cleanup :)

If the unit is powering off suddenly when accessory goes away (and +12v permanent fuse is ok) then the problem does sound like the "permanent" 12v supply isn't very permanent.

Hugo

Hugo: Thanks for the clarification.

Henno: Told ya so. Neener neener.

Fvgestel: Something is screwy with the wiring. It's not as simple as the permanent/ignition wires being swapped. It could be more serious, like the installer hooked up the wires wrong, for instance swapping the headlight sense with the permanent 12v. (I'm not saying that's what he did, I'm just saying it could possibly be something serious like that.)

Why do I think it's more serious? Because you said you verified the 12v permanent wire once before, and it suddenly quit working. True, odds are it's a blown fuse, but something had to blow that fuse. The Empeg doesn't draw enough juice to blow your average radio fuse (At least I don't think it does). When you check the fuse, check how many amps it's rated for. Let us know what else you find.

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Tony Fabris

The follow-up I promised. Yes, the empeg powers up briefly when docked in the car.

-Trevor

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Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349

NOW it sounds like everything is wired correctly; you should discuss it directly with Empeg at this point..
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

OK, I just installed mine and am having the same problem with the same symptoms. I am 99% sure that in my case, both the accesory AND "constant" feeds are going off with the ignition. This is on a 2000 Jeep Wrangler. I plan to rewire with the main empeg lead going straight to the fuse box (rather than using the feed from the stock harness) tomorrow. Will post back with results.

-Mike

Told ya so. Neener neener
Excellent guess. Another brownie point for Toni

Too bad though that this won't apply to future empegs:

(Hugo said)
This is being addressed with a slight change to the main board for the next 1000 units - don't panic, there's no extra functionality just a design cleanup :)

Hugo: What about the units after the next 1000?
Tony: What are you going to say now in your FAQ


Henno
mk2 6 nr 6

I should have said "future units" though with the component shortages we're sufffering from at the moment you can't rely on anything :(

Hugo

Just for interest - Do you have a number of produced(or delivered) Mk2 units in mind?

TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143