I'm not sure exactly how this will work out, but this is what I need to do:

We need speakers in our conference room ceiling. We have a computer setup underneath our conference table, and we want to have wireless speakers in the ceiling. Sooooo... does anyone know where I would find wireless speakers with 24"x24" flush cabinets that can be mounted to replace ceiling tiles? I've been told that we can get power to the speakers.

Any suggestions/links?

If they can run power to the speakers, then why not speaker wires?

I'd say you're better off running just speaker wires and have the power supplied by an amp at ground level. That way, there are fewer componets to go wrong that are difficult to reach.

I've installed some ceiling speakers myself in my house. I used Polk Audio speakers ordered from Crutchfield.

If it is a typicall office with tiles etc running cables to the speakers should be childs play and as tony says if you can get power you can get speaker cables.

If it is tiles lift a tile and have a look at what you got and if there is lots of room go high tech on the cable running get a small remote control car and drive it across cieling to edge of room and run cable down wall and then under carpet as you can get flat cables

Well, the deal is they've already run stuff up there, and I guess they don't want to run any more. Plus, they want as simple a setup as possible, so an easy transition from PC soundcard to speaker is preferred.

Anyway, I agree that the best thing would be to get regular speakers and run wires, and I'll see what we can do about that.

Oooh, Oooh, Oooh, you want to get yourself some NXT panels. They're as flat as a pancake, and are designed to fit in place of ceiling tiles. You'd never know they were there. They really are quite trick...

Oooh, Oooh, Oooh

Isn't it great when you know the exact answer to a question?

It certainly sounds good, but I can't seem to find anything on their website.

I found something here (the Tannoy speakers), but a quick search to other sites show that they are way out of the price range. They're like $570 each.

By the way, I found out why wires aren't an attractive option. It was indeed because they had already run stuff up there, and the process was not an easy or inexpensive one. I think it's too late. It is, however, possible to plug power into whatever is up there. The stuff that was run was video and power cables to a ceiling-mounted projector. We're pretty sure we can just plug into whatever the projector is plugged into, and we'll be set.

If you only need 2 channels and don't mind shoving an amp up there as well then you could just use a 2.4GHz video/audio sender. You're not going to get audiophile quality out of it and you'll have to pray that nobody uses any other 2.4GHz equipment nearby tho... But it would be cheap.

- Trevor

True, that is a possibility. I have a set in my place at school. I found that the audio quality was fine as long as the area in between wasn't crossed too often by bodies. Plus, for the distance from the floor to the ceiling, the signal probably won't get too weak, although we may get/cause interference between other offices.

Then comes the question:
if I got the version with RCA jacks, what kind of speakers do I use?
or
if I got the version with the wire terminals, how do I connect the other end to the PC soundcard?

"How it Works: The SoundPower Transmitter (VT35A) accepts stereo RCA audio inputs and transmits an 2.4 GHz RF signal. The SoundPower Receiver (VR32A) receives the stereo audio and outputs to two sets of standard speaker connectors. The Receiver has built-in 10W amplifier and provides stereo output to two speakers. " This is for the wire terminals one so I guess it accepts a normal line level input and outputs a speaker level one. Only 10W though.

- Trevor

Oh wow, you're right! I wasn't aware of that fact. Interesting. But yeah, 10W won't be enough to drive most speakers. At least not a pair that can fill a 15 person conference room.

Ahhhhhh there is a cable run already have a looky it might be shockingly easy to run cables next to the cables going to the projector as in pull the cabls and see if they move.

this does show the most important rule of running cables if you think you might need any cable what so ever at any point in the futre run it when you start. example my car has a set of cables for a sub running from empeg to boot, may never be used but they are there if i need them

Option 2 however is instead of hiding speakers buy a damn sexy pair of floor standers and stick them in the corners of the room but not against the wall bass reflex etc. then the speakers are a feature not something hidden

I was wondering if you'd be able to shove an amp up in the ceiling as well. Using the normal audio sender which has line level inputs and outputs + an amp would solve it but you'd have to install several bits up in the ceiling.

- Trevor

this does show the most important rule of running cables if you think you might need any cable what so ever at any point in the futre run it when you start

Too true. This was all done before I got back to work this summer, so I wasn't there to make "suggestions"

tman-good point. I'm not sure how much can sit up there, but I'll look into it a little more today.

Thanks guys.

Andy, your mention of NXT panels has led me on a long journey through some of the most bizzare speakers I've ever seen. I can't seem to actually find anyone who sells what I need, and the NXT website is just terrible (it has no information to speak of), but I've really enjoyed seeing these incredible ideas. From picture speakers to projection screen speakers to ceiling tiles (just what I'm looking for), these are just crazy.

However, I think this takes the cake

An NXT panel costs approx £40 from Canford Audio based in the UK, find attached the page from their catalogue.

Thanks, Andy. I thought NXT was a brand of speakers. That pdf was very informative...and cool!

Unfortunately, you Brits seem to be hogging all the speakers I can't seem to find a US or even international carrier of these products (preferably US). Wharfedale has a list or resellers, but none of them seem to ship internationally.

Does anyone know where I can pick up NXT panels in the US?? This looks perfect.

Also, if the speakers are 15W, and the receiver in the wireless system is 10W (is that total or per channel?), how do I step up the watts? Do I put some kind of other amp in-between, or would that have bad consequences??

I have a feeling Canford will ship worldwide, I know they do plenty of business in europe and even further. As for the power, I think 10W will be sufficient, especially if you do a bit of ohm juggling with a few units.

I assume you've found Canfords website: www.canford.co.uk

I can attest to Canfords quality, the BBC puts alot of business their way. I've also ordered from them many times...

How do you order from them? I've got to say, they don't have the most e-shopping friendly site. I would love to have been able to order two of these speakers today, and they'd have money in their digital hands. Now I have to wait for an email response (that I sent at 9AM today). The ordering alone will probably take 3 days!

Oh well, I'm just an instant gratification person I'll wait patiently.

I will say, however, that Wharfedale does NOT do a good job at international distribution. I called their US distributor and he gave me the names of several companies (which were very far from me), and they only carry one or two products and can't order anything for me. Oh well.

I'm going to call Canford tomorrow.

Thanks so much, Andy. The ceiling tile speakers came today, and they are amazing! Of course, I don't have them connected yet, but the mere fact that they are flat and weigh next to nothing (they are pretty much exactly like poster board) is amazing.

One question, though. What guage wire should I get? I am indeed using the X10 wireless audio sender, and I'm going out to Radio Shack in a bit to pick up the connectors I need. I just wanted to know what kind of wire I should use.

*edit*
Could someone tell me if there is such a computer program that will limit the frequencies coming out of the soundcard? I guess like a software crossover? I don't want to be feeding these things heavy bass or anything.

For 10-15W, unless you have very long runs, 18 awg is probably fine. Step up a size or two if you think it looks too puny...

If you want to protect the speakers from deep bass, get "bass blockers" from your friendly car audio store. They're essentially just capacitors that you put inline on the speaker wire, acting as a 6db/octave high pass filter. I don't recall the formula for roll-off frequency vs capcitance and speaker impedance... Shouldn't be to hard to find on the net (or someone might have it handy) if you wnat to buy your own caps instead of buying "premade" (ie attached pieces of wires to the leads of the cap and placed in shrink tubing...)

/Michael

If you want to protect the speakers from deep bass, get "bass blockers" from your friendly car audio store.

Aha. Now I know why he was asking that question in another thread. I replied there without seeing the explanation here. I was close to the mark in my guess, it seems.

And yeah, Bass Blockers will work, assuming that a crossover isn't already built in to those speakers. Don't worry about it until you actually get the speakers hooked up and listen to see if they really need it or not.

In reply to:

---

Thanks so much, Andy. The ceiling tile speakers came today, and they are amazing!

---

Just doin' my job!

And yeah, Bass Blockers will work

Actually, reading the other thread, I think that bass blockers will do the opposite of what he wants. He says the NXT panels sound "tinny" and he wants them to sound better. So he wants more bass, not less bass. I'll defer to his other thread on this topic.

Hrmmm... I didn't read the other thread very thouroughly, but I thought
I don't want to be feeding these things heavy bass or anything.
was pretty clear, and that's what promoted my reply.

If they sound tinny they probably can't reproduce the bass anyway, so they should never see it. As you suggested, might be a good idea to put a sub under the table...

/Michael

Here's the deal: the speakers are in the ceiling of our conference room. One works beautifully, the other has problems. We'll have to send it back.

I experimented around with the one that did work. I just shifted the balance to the far left and listened to how well it was reproducing the sound from the PC over the wireless connection. It's pretty good for something that seems like no more than poster board

Using Winamp, I loaded up a Screaming Trees track, and fiddled with Winamp some more. The sound was a bit "blah" and definitely "tinny". I then tried loading the "Full Bass Full Treble" preset or whatever it is. That made a world of difference! It sounded just fine for the particular use.

But to the topic, I heard the speaker distorting a bit. So, in the Winamp EQ, I eliminated the 60Hz frequency band. Wow! They sounded just fine. I upped the next highest band (170Hz I believe, 70 more than the speaker's lowest rating), and they handled pretty well almost all the way up.

So, what I need to do is: return one speaker (or find a way to make it work), and find some way to apply EQ settings to all sound output. I think Tony's idea of some sort of EQ between the PC and the transmitter is a good one.

Basically, the setup is for when there are internet broadcasts of hearings on capitol hill. These speakers will handle the job fine. Unfortunately, they still aren't loud enough, or the amp that's powering them isn't. We'll settle for now, though.

But to the topic, I heard the speaker distorting a bit.

Remember that distortion (a) is a function of volume as well as frequency, and (b) might be happening somewhere else in the signal chain. Are you sure it's the speaker distorting? Maybe your PC's sound card is overdriving the line-level inputs of the transmitter. Mess with the levels in the sound mixer applet (the speaker icon in the system tray).

Or even more likely: The distortion could be within WinAmp or within the sound card itself. For instance, if the "wave volume" in the mixer applet is set to full, and WinAmp's volume is set to full, if you crank the bass on the WinAmp equalizer it's going to distort right there in the sound card. (Much like doing the same thing on the empeg's equalizer, go figure. ) Again, mess with the mixer levels until you don't hear distortion. If you end up going with an external equalizer, this becomes moot because you'd set the PC's EQ to flat and control your sound with the external EQ.

Does the X10 amplifier or transmitter have any settings to adjust input gain or output volume? I'm assuming not. But if it did, you'd also mess with those in concert with the PC's sound mixer applet to get the right levels without distortion.

Unfortunately, they still aren't loud enough, or the amp that's powering them isn't. We'll settle for now, though.

Assuming that you aren't yet overdriving the inputs of that X10 transmitter, an external analog equalizer might let you boost gain a little bit.

Thanks, Tony. Those were things that I thought of, forgot, and your reminded me again

You're absolutely right. Chances are the speakers aren't distorting, since that would be very difficult when their max wattage is 15 and the max for the receiver amp is 10. It's probably either the soundcard or the X10 system.

Is there such a device that can take an already-amplified signal from that 10W amp and boost it out on the other end, while possibly factoring in an EQ? I suppose I'll have to take a look, but if anyone knows of one off the top of their head, it would be useful

I'll still probably have to send that other panel back. I'm not sure what they were doing with it. You can see someone's fingerprints all over the back in some kind of dry residue that was left on there, and is all around the resonator (I guess that's what it is). Oh well.

Is there such a device that can take an already-amplified signal from that 10W amp and boost it out on the other end

A device that will amplify something that's already amplified? I don't know of anything that'll do that in the indoor-stereo realm.

There are some car amplifiers that'll take speaker-level inputs as well as line-level inputs. But those don't re-amplify the speaker level inputs. They just convert the speaker level inputs back down to line level, then feed that into the normal signal chain of the amplifier.

I don't know of any home-stereo amplification gear that'll take speaker-level inputs. Maybe it exists, I just don't know of any.

Doesn't that X10 system offer a receiver-end with line-level outputs so you can hook up just a plain old stereo amp (something with bass and treble) to it?

Well, if I had thought long enough about it, and had planned ahead for this sort of instance, yes I could have simply gotten the wireless video/audio sender with RCA plugs on both ends, hooked up an amplifier, and we'd be all set. Oh well.

I think we'll be able to live with it. It's not too bad for the voice applications they want to use.