My father and I are looking into tech certification courses at the moment. We're just looking for the basic A+/Net+ cert. Any suggestions for our search? We found a very close location, but I'd like to get a good idea of what you guys consider a reasonable amount of time/money that these things should take up.

Thanks for your help!

*edit*
Additionally, we found packaged products for self-tutorials that were much cheaper. Are these sufficient for the tests? I'm looking at the test requirements at the moment, and they certainly don't seem to have much that's of any difficulty, but you know, you've gotta study for the test it's self

You are asking about a class not just the cost of the test right.

I would recommend self-tutorial. If you are computer literate you should have no problem with the A+ one. When I took it I just went and got a couple of books of pratice tests and did those for a week then took it.

I have been reading a book for the N+ one and I will have more trouble with that one too much memorization (OSI Model)

too much memorization (OSI Model)

Lets see...

1. Physical
2. Link
3. Beans
4. Cheese
5. Guacomole
6. Sour Cream
7. Low grade meat product

Or is that the Taco Bell 7 Layer Burrito model? I always get those confused

They're both about as useful in real-world networking.

Oh. My corollary to Godwin's Law: No management-oriented networking presentation, especially by a salesman, is ever complete until the OSI model is mentioned.

I took a week long course about 5 years ago at New Horizon Computer Learning Center. The cost then was about $1,200 I think and included the test. It was a small class and I thought helpful but the people that came in there knowing nothing were lost quickly. The test back then had Win 3.0 and 95 questions, it has changed since then thankfully. I would say if you learn better in a classroom than on your own, it is worth paying out the money. I think the Exam Prep and Exam Cram books are very good.

I've thought about going for the Network+ test and have books for it but haven't pursued it yet. The Server+ also looks very helpful.

I went for an interview once where the guy asked me "Define Ethernet". I went "Huh? Who cares what the definition is. I've been building networks for 7 years; Give me an IP range, I'll give you the correct subnet. Give me specific questions about the Do's and Don'ts and I'll answer those. But who gives a flip what the definition is?" They did, I answered, and was offered the job 2 weeks later. I hate stupid interview questions.

Was your answer ``Carrier Sense, Multiple Access/Collision Detection''?

To be honest, there's some times when it's useful to know how ethernet works. They're few and far between, but it you don't know when it happens, you're lost.

In reply to:

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To be honest, there's some times when it's useful to know how ethernet works. They're few and far between, but it you don't know when it happens, you're lost

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Agreed.
I think the "who cares how it works" thing depends on whether you want a job fixing stuff
If you don't know how it works, how on earth do you expect to fix it.

But to answer the orignal question.
With any certification, it depends on what you want. Do you just want the certification or do you actually want to learn something?
It is possible to take a ten day course and become a CNE or a MCSE in a month. But you learn squat that way.
If you just want the cert, go out and buy the Exam Cram type books and cram, cram, cram!
If you want to learn, go on the course, get the hands on and the interraction with other students. Then take the exam.

The McOSI model;

1. Bun
2. Ketchup & Mustard
3. Onion & Pickle
4. Lettuce
5. Cheese
6. Burger
7. Bun

1. Bun

2 points off for lack of specificity, should be "Sesame Seed Bun"

7. Bun

And this should be ``heel''.

Can you tell that I've never flipped burgers?

Nor I. But somewhere I misplaced my useless knowledge filter. I think maybe they left it out of the package when my brain was shipped.

6. Burger

I think you mean "Low grade beef type substance." <shiver> I haven't had McDonalds in over 2 years, and I'm glad.

But who gives a flip what the definition is?" They did, I answered, and was offered the job 2 weeks later.

What year was this?

Thanks, guys.

I am taking these as basic certifications to be used as qualifications for certain jobs. I'm just going to get my feet wet soon and certain places want that basic A+ cert on your resume.

In the future, I would love to get some serious training, but for now, I'm not planning on going in-depth with 4-week-long, $5000 courses. Hell, I just finished college!

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Unfortunately, I don't know what this OSI stuff is that you're talking about, so I think the Net+ course might be good since I need to learn about that.

So, I have the choice of 2 weeks without income from my summer job, or order that tutorial software and information and do that in my spare time. I'll probably go with the latter. Sound good to you?

Thanks, everyone!

To be honest, there's some times when it's useful to know how ethernet works. They're few and far between, but it you don't know when it happens, you're lost.

This is true for all kinds of technical stuff, of course. However, my feeling is that employers should not be looking for people who know every piece of information as much as people who can easily obtain and understand whatever information is lacking and solve problems (in other words: tenacious workers who have a good sense of intuition). I've met tons of technical people who can answer all the questions, but get them in front of some trouble-shooting problem and they're hosed. Of course the flip side to all this is that if I'd known more about J2EE, Oracle, PL/SQL, JSP, etc. I would have spared this community a lot of questions! The best combination, of course, is knowledge and intuition, but I'll take intuition over knowledge if it’s one or the other because knowledge can be obtained.

2000

Ahh, I never said I didn't know how it works, I said I didn't know the precise textbook definition they were looking for.

2000

That was going to be my guess. I'd think about maybe modifying your response this year!

Stupid interview questions? No problem!

(and I don't really think the question is stuoid at all, depending on what they are looking for in the position...)

Unfortunately, I don't know what this OSI stuff is that you're talking about...

Lucky you!

Okay the resident board grease monkey is thinking about trying to get into IT in some way or another.

I have somewhere close to zero computer qualifcations but i have a reasonable amount of computer knowledge learnt from this board mainly.

So anyone in the uk know of a good way to start down this track as i can't spend all my days being a knuggle dragging ginger beer

Unless the UK market is wildly different than the US market, now is a bad time. It's hard to find a job in the IT market without some pretty specific expertise. Otherwise, you might be able to find a job answering tech support calls somewhere, and I can't imagine that pays even remotely as well as your grease monkey (``I don’t know too many monkeys who could take apart a fuel injector.'') job.

I have somewhere close to zero computer qualifcations but i have a reasonable amount of computer knowledge learnt from this board mainly.

I'm convinced that someone with zero expertise could hold down a lightweight IT job just by asking all their questions here in the forum.

Fuel injectors are a piece of piss you should try a sulzer fuel pump with variable injection timing they are nasty.

But another thing is that ships are starting get very very high tech One ship i was recently on had as a control system a rather large and complex Unix based computer network so everything was controled via a compouter screen and a mouse.

Then there is the new engines from sulzer which are a slow speed two stroke and they have no camshaft so both valve opening and fuel injection is done entirely electronically

Well i will put my hand up and admit that did pass through my mind

Except in IT Security. We have superb headcount increase and are getting stacks of work as companies can't find enough people without using us.

Okay it is vaguely specialised, but if you are analytical and enjoy breaking or fixing things it could be a line to consider.

What i get to hit things with huge sledge hammers that is how i normally break something, or hydraulics hydraulic jacks are real good for bending shafts, i have even managed to strip the threads out of a 200 ton jack (oops).

But seriously what is the best way to start looking into getting even marginly qualifed in this field

Greetings!

If you want to try out the networking side, you might want to take a look at Boson. They specialize in Cisco router simulation software, training and practice tests. Some of the stuff is free (labs and a basic router simulator for Cisco testing), but they have full scale training and testing as well.

two stroke and they have no camshaft so both valve opening and fuel injection is done entirely electronically


What valves on a two stroke engine?

I am guessing that a large, marine two-stroke engine doesn't charge the combustion chamber through a port in the cylinder wall by pressurizing the crankcase on the downstroke the way a small motorcycle-style two stroke engine does... So how does it work?

tanstaafl.

okay what you are refering to is a loop flow scavenge where the charge comes in from the side gets compressed and then ignited and then goes out another set of ports on the same side, very simple and hugely ineeficent due to a large dollop of charge going out the exhaust port. the under piston pressurisation is kind of used in a big diesel but not really.

What we have is uniflow scavenging where the charge comes in from ports in the sides of the liner near the bottom and then gets compressed by the rising piston and then ignited then pushes the piston down and then when the piston is near the bottom but before the inlet ports are uncoverd the single exhaust valve near the top opens and lets the exhaust gas out the piston then travels down further and the ports ar uncovred and then the charge air pressure pushes or scavenges the exhaust gas out and then you are ready for another cycle.

To supply the chagre air we have normally two turbo chargers which give alomost 1 bar of boost pressure but if any one says their car has a big turbo they don't out turbos are about 5 foot in diameter and the compressor wheel will be about 3 foot across. i think from calculation the exhust turbines them selve if they were not powering a compressor would produce about 4000Bhp each on the big engines.

to prevent our crankcase from being pressurised of containated with combustion crap (technical term) we have a diaphram that seperates the crankcase from the liners and pistons and through this diaphram we have a piston rod that goes onto a crosshead. The crosshead moves up and down with the piston and the connecting rod attachs to that which allows us to have the very long stroke to bore ratios we operate at.

if you download the PDF i point to in the big things thread that will show you a good cutaway on page 6 on page 9 there is a picture of pistons lying on their side and on page 13 there is a piston hanging with the gland in place.

the engine shown in that pdf is actually a relativly short stroke at 2.5 metres with a 960mm bore the ultra long stroke that are used on tankers for the best efficency are 3.5 metre strokes to a 840mm bore.

Those engines are about 555 effiecent where as the mainum theorectical effieceny is only about 57%

So hopefully that should explain it