#165983 - 15/06/2003 23:37
Original art assets used in XML interface?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm writing another application for the empeg that makes use of pictures of the remote control and of the empeg face. For the moment, I've lifted the art from CharcoalGray99's XML interface for this purpose. I would like to continue using this art because it looks really good, but I want to make sure I obtain the permission of the original creators before making this app public.
The image of the empeg is the one that's scaled so that the screen matches up with a 128x32 VFD screen capture. I believe it was originally lifted off of the Rio web site where animated GIF examples of the empeg visuals were being shown.
I don't know for sure where the image of the remote came from. I know it is also used in another HTML/Javascript remote control implementation similar to CharcoalGray99's web interface, but I don't know which is the chicken and which the egg, so to speak.
So who were the original creators of these images?
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#165984 - 23/06/2003 21:35
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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*BUMP*
Nobody?
I've realized that the face image is a resized version of the original pre-molding CAD renders when they were developing the Mk2 fascia. But I don't know where the Rio Remote image came from.
I'm really close to release on this software... And no one's even expressed a curiosity about it. 
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#165985 - 23/06/2003 21:37
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I figured you wouldn't tell us what it is until it's done anyway 
_________________________
Matt
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#165986 - 23/06/2003 21:40
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Well, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Either that or let you beta test it.
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#165987 - 24/06/2003 01:40
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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then I'd have to kill you. Either that or let you beta test it.
Depending on the quality of the software, these two might turn out to be equivalent  .
_________________________
-- roger
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#165988 - 24/06/2003 10:30
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Depending on the quality of the software, these two might turn out to be equivalent. Aw, hell, I'll just let you guys be the judge of that.
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#165989 - 24/06/2003 10:39
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Tony,
Bravo! This is fantastic! Exactly what I needed!
BTW, I'm running under XP and works like a champ.
- Jon
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#165990 - 24/06/2003 10:47
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Thanks, glad you like it!
Looking at the program, it seems like such a simple thing. But you wouldn't believe what a pain it was to code. Mostly because of the UI design choices I made. For instance, getting the rounded corners on the windows is like pulling teeth. I could have drawn region windows specifying point-to-point coordinates, but that would have been a pain. I finally found some example code on the 'net which created a region window from the form's bitmap and used that. (Note how you can see daylight through the gap by the handle hinges; that was my primary goal. )
And then there was trying to deal with all of the permutations of long and short and double clicks, and drags, in such a way that it "felt right" to use. Sometimes it's hard to keep all of the event chains straight in your head.
I've just discovered another bug in the program I'll have to fix eventually... but I'll leave it up to you guys to find it.
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#165991 - 24/06/2003 10:58
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Cool. Works great here. One feature request and one bug report.
Is it possible to make it yield between refreshes though? It uses 100% CPU whenever I run it and on my laptop all of the fans suddenly kick in.
It's actually just a cosmetic bug but sometimes when I'm dragging the empeg or remote around the image jitters.
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#165992 - 24/06/2003 11:00
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I've just discovered another bug in the program I'll have to fix eventually... but I'll leave it up to you guys to find it. Hitting the buttons without your empeg present on the network crashes 'Face'
Do I win?
EDIT: Seems to crash without hitting buttons after a while of being open without an empeg to talk to. I wish I could check it out. It looks pretty dope.
Edited by robricc (24/06/2003 11:03)
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#165993 - 24/06/2003 11:02
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Another feature request: Can you add an option for the remote to be "always on top"?
Can you add that feature to my girlfriend as well???
- Jon
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#165994 - 24/06/2003 11:03
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Is it possible to make it yield between refreshes though? It uses 100% CPU whenever I run it and on my laptop all of the fans suddenly kick in. It does yield between refreshes. This is talked about in the readme file. Check what it has to say there, first.
sometimes when I'm dragging the empeg or remote around the image jitters. Yeah, I can't really do anything about that, it's the video driver. The same thing would happen on other programs if you activated the "show window contents while dragging" feature of Windows.
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#165995 - 24/06/2003 11:03
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Could be annoying if you're trying to use the computer or watching TV though... 
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#165996 - 24/06/2003 11:05
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hitting the buttons without your empeg present on the network crashes 'Face' Odd, it doesn't do that on my systems. I specifically tested that feature. Does it give you a specific error message when you do that?
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#165997 - 24/06/2003 11:07
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Doesn't crash here without any empeg.
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#165998 - 24/06/2003 11:07
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Another feature request: Can you add an option for the remote to be "always on top"? I had considered this, but I thought it would get really annoying after a while, since the window is so large.
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#165999 - 24/06/2003 11:11
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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I actually read the README just before you replied to me. I'll read it first next time
Yeah. It jitters quite a lot even though I'm not moving the mouse. As I said, it's just a cosmetic thing anyway.
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#166000 - 24/06/2003 11:13
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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So large? On my screen, the remote is pretty small...
I'm at 1280 x 1024... plus, at home, I use dual monitors and want to put it in the upper right corner of my "utilities" display always...
- Jon
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#166001 - 24/06/2003 11:20
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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It jitters quite a lot even though I'm not moving the mouse. I thought you meant that it sometimes left graphics blitter behind when you drag it across another window.
It shouldn't jitter at at all when you hold the mouse still, it doesn't do that on any of my systems. The only way that should happen is if the mouse itself is sending jittery data to the application (lots of one-pixel mousemove commands even when you're not moving the mouse).
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#166002 - 24/06/2003 11:22
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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plus, at home, I use dual monitors and want to put it in the upper right corner of my "utilities" display always... I don't have dual monitors to test against, I'm curious to see if it correctly remembers its screen position (after exiting and restarting) on a second monitor. I'm guessing it won't. I'd be curious how to code for that instance, since I don't have a way of testing it.
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#166003 - 24/06/2003 11:24
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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I'll test it when I get home tonight. So how tough is it to add that "always on top" feature?
- Jon
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#166004 - 24/06/2003 11:25
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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The cursor is not moving at all and it doesn't happen in anything else. It's not important anyway and it's probably something to do with VB itself.
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#166005 - 24/06/2003 11:27
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I'm sure there's not much that can be done about it, but even with the refresh at 1000ms, it's taking up 97-100% CPU time on a dual 2.4 GHZ Xeon machine. =o
oh, and that is pimp!! very clean Tony. Nice work.
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#166006 - 24/06/2003 11:30
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I swear it crashed twice. Face was getting 'Not Responding' but ImageGrabber would continue to run after killing 'Face".
No error message.
I will try and break it again. I'm running XP Pro by the way.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#166007 - 24/06/2003 11:44
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm sure there's not much that can be done about it, but even with the refresh at 1000ms, it's taking up 97-100% CPU time on a dual 2.4 GHZ Xeon machine. Right, all it's doing is sitting in a loop with a bunch of VB "doEvents" commands waiting for the other app to tell it what to do.
Y'all are putting too much stock in what the Task Manager is telling you. The only reason it's saying it's consuming 100 percent CPU is because it's the only app that's doing anything. As soon as you do something else on the PC, it'll automatically drop to lower than whatever the other app is doing. As soon as that other app goes idle, it'll start back into its loop again.
I agree, I know it can be coded more efficiently. It's on my to do list.
oh, and that is pimp!! very clean Tony. Nice work. Thanks!
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#166008 - 24/06/2003 11:46
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The cursor is not moving at all and it doesn't happen in anything else. That's odd. It shouldn't do that. I haven't seen that happen on any of my systems. Is it only when you're holding down the mouse button on the window?
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#166009 - 24/06/2003 11:49
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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So how tough is it to add that "always on top" feature? Dunno, I'd have to look at her code first.
Oh, you mean in my app. Not tough. I just have to decide how to incorporate it into the UI. Should it be on the menu or in the dialog box?
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#166010 - 24/06/2003 11:58
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Yeah. Like if you were trying to drag the window but not actually moving it. It only happens sometimes though.
- Trevor
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#166011 - 24/06/2003 12:06
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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#166013 - 24/06/2003 12:26
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Mach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Any way to make it skin-able? Allow a user to supply theire own gif or bmp of the fascia/handle? Interesting idea. The tough part would be getting the knob/buttons to line up right with the hit-points I've coded into the form. I'd have to make an easy way to edit that.
Hm.
Might help with a bit of redesign work I wanted to do anyway related to that.
Hm.
I'll think about it.
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#166014 - 24/06/2003 16:50
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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My suggestion is that the "always on top" be within the right click menu.
It could be:
Show remote
Always on top
Show face
Always on top
Configure
The "Always on top" is another selectable menu item for each component...
- Jon
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#166015 - 24/06/2003 17:17
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hmmm. Ideally, I'd like to have the menu be sensitive to which window you clicked on and offer just the one "always on top" for just that window. I'll look into doing it that way.
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#166016 - 24/06/2003 17:45
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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either way sounds cool, by the way youve made my remote useless at work. Nice work on the program its pretty cool.
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#166017 - 24/06/2003 17:47
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: eliceo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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#166018 - 24/06/2003 18:29
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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XML is good for that kind of thing.
_________________________
Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#166019 - 24/06/2003 18:37
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Either way is great with me...
By the way, with dual tuners, if the face or the remote is on the second monitor when I close the app, the program puts them back at default location when starting the next time... Not ideal, but at least it doesn't crash.
- Jon
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#166020 - 24/06/2003 19:27
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/09/2000
Posts: 363
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Just kinda thinking aloud here...
I think the main difference is that with multi-monitor support, some of the monitors can have negative coords. Maybe there's some logic in the built-in functions that try to make sure a window isn't openning off-screen (e.g. no negative coords) that should be re-writen for multi-monitor support.
Although, if that's the case, then it would seem to be an issue of updating the toolkit, not something that you specifically do in an application.
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#166021 - 24/06/2003 21:38
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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journeyman
Registered: 23/08/2002
Posts: 93
Loc: South Texas
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#166022 - 24/06/2003 23:58
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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hit-points I've coded into the form
The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour.
Windows Media Player 9 uses this technique.
Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window ?
_________________________
-- roger
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#166023 - 25/06/2003 03:22
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour. Interesting idea. I'll have to see if that works in VB. Sounds like it would work.
Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window ? I don't understand the question. Are you saying that the Region Window (non-rectangular window) feature isn't working when the window loses focus? I'm not getting that. The windows have rounded corners regardless of whether or not they are the active window on all the systems I tested on.
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#166024 - 25/06/2003 03:29
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: TheAmigo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I think the main difference is that with multi-monitor support, some of the monitors can have negative coords. I was wondering how the OS reported the second monitor position to the application. I've never coded for multiple monitors, so I didn't know.
Maybe there's some logic in the built-in functions that try to make sure a window isn't openning off-screen (e.g. no negative coords) that should be re-writen for multi-monitor support. No, it's just that I deliberately reset the saved window position if it comes up as being off the screen (i.e, negative number or greater than the screen width or height). This is for people who change their desktop resolution. If they exit the program at a high resolution while the window is off to the side, then start it again at a lower resolution, then the window will be off screen and they would have no way to get it back on the screen.
Perhaps I just need to make that part of it optional. Add a checkbox to the config screen that disables this window-resetting code. Then maybe it would just work for those with multiple monitors.
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#166025 - 25/06/2003 06:28
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window ? I don't understand the question. I think he was talking about having it support alpha transparency such that when it's the active window, it's opaque, but when it's not (not focused) it's transparent (at least partially, 100% transparency isn't all that useful.)
Trillian supports this, if you wanna take a look at how it works.
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#166026 - 25/06/2003 06:40
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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when it's the active window, it's opaque, but when it's not (not focused) it's transparent
Yeah. What he said:
Attachments
165698-alpha-transparent.jpg (354 downloads)
_________________________
-- roger
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#166027 - 25/06/2003 10:04
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ah, gotcha.
Yeah, when I was digging around looking for some good code to use for the Region Window stuff, I saw examples of how to do the alpha transparency thing.
I didn't do it, though, because it only works easily on XP with the Dot Net development kit, and only on 2000 with some ugly hacking, and not at all on 95/98/NT.
However, if I can find an easy way to drop it in so that I don't have to code a lot of if/then special cases to compensate for the OS's that don't support it, then that might make a good way of indicating when the window isn't focused. I was thinking of taking the existing bitmap and just dimming it, but the transparency would work, too.
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#166028 - 26/06/2003 23:58
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour. I just did this, and it works a treat. Thanks, Roger!
I now have a skinnable interface that can be any shape with the buttons anywhere you like.
Creating the button-trigger bitmap is tricky because I'm using one of the RGB values as the index into the case statement for the IR commands to send. For instance, the top button on the face is Button 1. So you have to paint a bitmap with that button painted the RGB value of (255, 0, 1). The center-knob-press is Button 7, so you have to paint it (255,0,7).
It sounds complicated, but it's really not at all. I'll include example bitmaps.
I'll try the always-on-top and transparency features, and do some more bug fixes before another release. Dunno if it's going to be before the Amersfoort trip or not.
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#166029 - 27/06/2003 00:22
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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You can also stretch the VFD to any size you like and position it anywhere on the Window...
Took about 20 seconds to make a working "Double Size" skin.
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#166030 - 27/06/2003 16:10
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, skins for this are fun. That was a great idea. I've thrown together a few sloppy skins, and even sloppy ones are cool.
I really want to release the skinnable version, but I'm having a bug with it. The trick with testing for a button hit via a bitmap isn't working from VB when the system's color depth is anything less than 24 bit color. As soon as I set the system down to 16 bit color or lower, the "point" command that lets me sample a pixel from a bitmap stops returning valid values. I'll mess with it some more and see if I can fix it. In the meantime, would folks be interested in a skinnable version that required you to run it in 24-bit color?
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#166031 - 27/06/2003 16:20
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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even a buggy version sounds cool, did you implement always on top yet? Ive really been using your program a lot at work.
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#166032 - 27/06/2003 16:24
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: eliceo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I don't have Always on Top yet, nor do I have the transparency yet. I wanted to get skins working correctly first. I'll see if I can cobble together a release with instructions on how to make the skins.
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#166033 - 27/06/2003 22:02
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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As a guess (I'm not a Windows programmer) try using more widely-spaced intervals for your button codes. (xx,xx,xx) is inherently 24-bit (3 8-bit sequences), and if you're changing one of them by one bit, that going to be masked in the 24-bit-to-16-bit interpolation.
Try using (255,255,127) and (255,127,255) and (127,255,255) and (127,255,127) and (127,127,127) and (0,127,255), etc. You'll have to have a LUT, but that's hardly a large penalty.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#166034 - 28/06/2003 00:21
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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Oh hell yeah. Please post it.
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#166035 - 28/06/2003 03:49
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 04/04/2002
Posts: 101
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how hard would it be to use/create an interface like this to stream music?
using empeg at home i use the display server to stream to other rooms.
_________________________
Jason
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#166036 - 28/06/2003 06:25
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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try using more widely-spaced intervals for your button codes First thing I thought of. No, it's not that. All calls to the "point" command result in the same return value no matter what the color at that point is. Even if the difference between the two is 000000 and FFFFFF. I'm going to investigate it more.
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#166037 - 28/06/2003 06:29
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: maurij]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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how hard would it be to use/create an interface like this to stream music? Hmmm. Not too difficult. I was planning on creating a third window, similar to the "now playing" window in Charcoalgray99's XML interface. It could theoretically be used to download and stream the current FID to WinAmp.
However, using the controls on the EmpegFace application to control the stream wouldn't work. You'd have to use the controls in WinAmp to control the stream instead.
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#166038 - 28/06/2003 08:34
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 04/04/2002
Posts: 101
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hmmm looks like we need an empeg winamp skin then. how hard are those? sounds like a decent project to try my hand at coding
_________________________
Jason
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#166039 - 28/06/2003 09:35
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: maurij]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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how hard are those? Harder than my skins.
sounds like a decent project to try my hand at coding It's not coding so much as painting. Try your hand at one of my skins, first, before tackling a WinAmp skin:
Version 1.1 of EmpegFace here.
Remember, that this version has the 24-bit color limitation.
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#166040 - 28/06/2003 09:42
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I also had to sub-zip the skins, so you have to unzip the skins yourself. Sorry about that. Does anyone know which version of WinZip doesn't have the limitation of not allowing the same name twice in a zip file?
I'm headed out to do yard work now. I expect to see five new skins when I get back!
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#166041 - 28/06/2003 11:39
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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Thanks for the skin feature! Running my desktop at 1600x1200 makes the default very small, so doublesize rules here. Yet another wish. How about custom screen colors? That way we can imitate our Darkstorm lenses.
Edited by waterman981 (28/06/2003 11:45)
_________________________
-Michael
#040103696 on a shelf
Mk2a - 90 GB - Red - Illuminated buttons
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#166042 - 28/06/2003 13:26
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Waterman981]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Custom screen colors is do-able, but I'm probably going to concentrate on the existing wish list before working on that one.
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#166043 - 28/06/2003 16:49
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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Its abit rough but here's one. I took creative license with a Blauplunkt MD facsia.
Can you add this to the wish list...allow remote buttons and face buttons on the same map? Here why....
Attachments
166425-first.jpg (268 downloads)
Edited by Mach (28/06/2003 16:49)
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#166044 - 28/06/2003 17:09
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Mach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Can you add this to the wish list...allow remote buttons and face buttons on the same map? Here why.... Hmmmmmm, I'll have to think about how to do that without breaking the current spec.
Aw, who knows, maybe I'll have to break the current spec anyway just to get the thing working on low-color systems.
I like how you relabeld the buttons.
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#166046 - 29/06/2003 13:12
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Does anyone know which version of WinZip doesn't have the limitation of not allowing the same name twice in a zip file? I don't think that's possible. You couldn't create a valid header like that. You can create a zip file that has subdirectories, though.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#166047 - 29/06/2003 14:57
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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You can create a zip file that has subdirectories, though. Right, I tried that. It complained because there were subdirectories with same-named files. In other words, since subdirectory "a" had "face.bmp" and subdirectory "b" also had "face.bmp", it refused to create the zip file.
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#166048 - 29/06/2003 15:30
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 14/09/2000
Posts: 363
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WinZip 9.0 beta handles that just fine... Here's a sample.
What version do you have that complains about it? I don't think I've ever tried that before, but wow, what a limitation!
Attachments
166510-test.zip (29 downloads)
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#166049 - 29/06/2003 15:35
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Oh. Well, then, it's a piece of crap.
Actually, there's an option in there somewhere to avoid subdirectories or not. Make sure that's checked the right way.
Otherwise, try using another zip program.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#166050 - 29/06/2003 15:39
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: TheAmigo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ah, never mind. I figured it out. My current Winzip handles it just fine, turns out that it was just the way I chose to create the file.
What I did (which didn't work) was to use the CTRL key in my development directory to multiple-select some of the skin subfolders and the EXEs and the readme. (Had to do this so it didn't pick up all the source code files at the same time.) That's what gave me the duplicate file name error.
If, instead, I create a folder called "EmpegFace", copy all the files and subdirectories into it that I want, go to that folder's parent, right click on the EmpegFace folder and select "Create EmpegFace.zip" from the right-click menu, then it all works perfectly.
I could swear I knew this at some point in my lifetime, I just got somehow stupider between then and now.
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#166051 - 29/06/2003 15:45
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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By the way, with dual monitors, if the face or the remote is on the second monitor when I close the app, the program puts them back at default location when starting the next time... Not ideal, but at least it doesn't crash. Jon, could you please try 1.1 and activate the "Dual Monitor Support" feature? I'm curious if it correctly remembers its window positions with your dual display setup.
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#166052 - 29/06/2003 15:48
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Honestly, I haven't used WinZip in ages. I don't think that that sort of program should cost money, and I didn't want to ``steal'' it from NicoMak, so I found an alternative and I haven't looked back. I use an old version of UltimateZip on my home PC before it became adware (though non-invasive, supposedly). On my friend's computer, I think I installed ZipCentral.
Tangentially, have you looked at NoNags? Given that when I'm looking for some little utility I don't want to pay for it, nor do I want adware or spyware, NoNags does a really good job of showing only absolutely free stuff. Makes it that much easier to filter through the chaff when it's already been done for you.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#166053 - 29/06/2003 16:27
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Yep. Works like a charm. Not too crazy about the way the face and remote move around the screen though...
- Jon
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#166054 - 29/06/2003 18:03
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Thanks for the link to NoNags, bitt.
Jon, what do you mean "the way they move around the screen"? You should just drag them and they should be pretty smooth. Sometimes if I'm on a machine with a really slow video card, they leave trails on other applications which disappear as soon as you release the mouse button. Are they doing something strange on your system?
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#166055 - 29/06/2003 18:08
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Something is weird in the way it moves around my screen now. When I drag the face or remote, one side kinda collapses and then when I move it far enough, the whole image re-draws in the new location...
It's funky and v1.0 didn't do this for me...
- Jon
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#166056 - 29/06/2003 18:10
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ah, OK. Gotcha. Kind of like reverse-blitter. I know the effect you mean.
That only happens on one of my skins, the really weird one. I think its edges are too complicated for the Microsoft RegionWindow API's. You wouldn't happen to be using that skin would you?
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#166057 - 29/06/2003 21:43
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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It happens on all of the skins...
Am I the only one this is happening for? Should I delete the .ini or something?
- Jon
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#166058 - 29/06/2003 22:00
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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I don't see it on mine except for the puddle skin.
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#166059 - 29/06/2003 23:44
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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It happens on all of the skins... Interesting. Well, let's see...
The code that creates the region windows, and the code that controls the window moving, has not changed between 1.0 and 1.1. When I added the skin support, I merely allowed the bitmaps to load dynamically instead of having them built into the form. So your report that it didn't happen in 1.0 puzzles me.
Hm. Try this: In the Configuration dialog box, under Skin, delete it so that it's blank. Exit and restart the program. Does it have the same problem? What this will do is force it to fail when it attempts to open a skin file, and it will then fall back to the bitmaps built into the forms.
In the meantime, let's hear what the system's CPU, RAM, and video card specs are. And did you change any video settings on the system around the time you installed 1.1?
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#166060 - 30/06/2003 07:47
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Tried it, but the same thing happens.
I tried re-installing 1.0 into a different directory. When I run that, dragging the items works perfectly... So it is something in the 1.1 code that is causing this weird behavior...
- Jon
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#166061 - 30/06/2003 09:28
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Very odd!
Well, I'm leaving on the Europe trip here shortly, so I won't be able to pound on this bug for a while. Remind me when I get back.
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#166062 - 30/06/2003 09:32
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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No problem. Have fun in Europe!
- Jon
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#166063 - 30/06/2003 10:28
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I can now reproduce this on one of my boxes now, so when I get time to work on it, I've got a way to find the problem.
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#166064 - 02/07/2003 13:16
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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All versions of zip I've ever used, Win or otherwise, allowed for files with same name if they are in differend directories (and if you choose to preserve directory names, of course).
Great work! 
Edit: I also see weird moving behaviour.
Edit2: Have great time in NL!
Edited by bonzi (02/07/2003 13:19)
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#166065 - 11/07/2003 13:37
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Bump!
Now that you are back Tony... :-)
- Jon
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#166067 - 18/07/2003 16:00
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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#166068 - 19/07/2003 14:29
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Heh. I'll see what I can do next week. This week things got complicated. This weekend is (hopefully) set up my vacation pictures at my new website and get the site design finalized.
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#166069 - 30/07/2003 17:20
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, I've done the following so far:
'- Bugfix: Dragging the windows around the screen no longer
' has a strange repaint problem on some systems
'- Better graphic for remote on Doublesize skin.
'- Bugfix: Double-click-and-hold behavior no longer behaves strangely.
'- Bugfix: When -minimized is on the command line or when
' Start Minimized is in the configuration, changing the skin no longer
' causes the program to re-minimize.
'- Side Effect: When the application is minimized, changing the skin
' makes it un-minimize. This is good, it lets you see the skin you changed to.
'- Fix Deferred: Switching to an incorrect skin or "blank" might (depending on what
' the hard disk looks like at the time) leave the current skin as-is instead of
' reloading the default skin. Not easy to fix... and rather a minor issue
' anyway. I could theoretically put up an error box if you get the skin
' wrong, but I hate modal error boxes. I'd rather just have the lack-of-a-skin-change
' be your clue that you got it wrong. A commercial product would have an error box
' or a CommonDialog for selecting a skin, but I'm not ready to invest that kind of
' time in this yet.
Currently am working on:
'Awaiting Bugfixes:
'- FIX: Less-than-hicolor screens, RGB hit tests don't work?
'Awaiting Feature Additions:
'- Requested feature: Always on top
'- Requested feature: Alpha transparency for non focused window
I ran into a thorny issue with the hicolor screens. What's wrong is that when VB loads up a bitmap (in this case the bitmap with the button hit tests) is downconverted to whatever bitdepth the current screen is. And there's not enough resolution in a 8, 15, or 16-bit-per-pixel screen for one easy color elemnt to represent different buttons. And even if I chose different levels for each color element as suggested elsewhere in this thread, then the actual values are going to be dependent on the video driver. Here's an example:
24 bit mode, difference in each value=10
0A 00 FF
14 00 FF
1E 00 FF
28 00 FF
16 bit mode, difference in each value=10
08 00 FF
10 00 FF
18 00 FF
29 00 FF
Note how the 16 bit video driver has random values that are not quite what I saved in the 24 bit file. And I can't, for example, do "If greater than 15 then it's the same as 20" because the value for 30 comes out to be 24 thanks to the screwy way the video driver has to average 8 bits down to 6 bits. And I don't even have a 15-bit mode in my video driver to test against for that. And also I can't predict exactly what a different video driver will do, so getting device-caps on the video card won't necessarily help.
So my options are:
-Throw out the easy way of skinning completely and go back to some kind of table-based system. Or keep the bitmap method and do 0/128/255 for each RGB value but I don't think that yields enough values for the remote's 24 buttons.
-Write code to read into the windows BMP format and get the stored pixels of the button-hit-test bitmap directly instead of loading it into an image and using GetPixel like I'm doing now.
-Just forget supporting lower-than-24-bit color altogether.
Who votes for that last one?
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#166070 - 30/07/2003 19:43
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Excellent! Is this just a note to let us know your status, or is this new version available somewhere???
- Jon
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#166071 - 30/07/2003 20:19
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Just a note to let you know status. I was trying to fix all of the bugs before going on to the requested features (always on top and translucency). That's what you guys have been waiting for, those features, right?
Anyway, I'm gone this weekend so it's unlikely I'll get much further than what's posted above before next week sometime.
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#166072 - 30/07/2003 20:31
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 15/07/2002
Posts: 828
Loc: Texas, USA
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I'd vote for dropping support for lower than 24 bit.
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#166073 - 30/07/2003 20:41
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Mach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'd vote for dropping support for lower than 24 bit. Cool.
Really, the only thing holding me back is the knowledge that sometimes people will deliberately run their desktop in 16-bit to save memory, or (on older video cards or on cheap motherboard-embedded video chips) to achieve higher resolutions than are available in the 24-bit mode.
Then again, the target market for this applet is pretty small, so I could be wasting my time by trying to code in support for something no one will ever use.
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#166074 - 31/07/2003 13:07
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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So the poll seems to support my theory: Supporting low color depths isn't a big deal, everyone is running 24 bit these days.
I'm concerned who the "one" guy is that needs 16-bit support, though. Want to come forward?
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#166075 - 31/07/2003 13:45
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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That would be me. I run an older Matrox G400Max board at the office in a dual head setup. The secondary display screen has to be 16 bit for me to set it at anything above 800x600 60 Hz. With 16 bit I do 1152x864 75Hz.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#166076 - 31/07/2003 15:51
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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In a dual-head setup, can you run different bit depths on each screen, or do both screens have to be the same bit depth?
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#166077 - 31/07/2003 19:26
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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It depends on the video card(s) used. With my dual head asus 5200 I can.
_________________________
Matt
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#166078 - 31/07/2003 20:13
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Well, I personally am not running your app (yet), but most of my machines here use 16-bit colour depth, simply because it's much faster and more memory efficient than 24-bit. The only exception is my photo-editing box, which by necessity has to use 24-bit colour.
Cheers
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#166080 - 01/08/2003 06:56
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Hey, who said anything about Windows boxes?
But yes, in actual fact, several of my machines are configured with Win98 inside VMWare on top of Linux, 16-bit colour depth. And one machine can actually boot Win98 natively -- needed for proper colour management with Photoshop, since VMWare does not yet appear to allow such (colour management).
Cheers
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