I posted this in AVSFORUM, but thought y'all would probably have better and more accurate answers for me...

Hi All,

Just recently bought a loft and I want to put a plasma in my bedroom but I have a few challenges... Please help!

1) The bedroom only has coax and it would be a "big deal" to run DVI/components to the bedroom. HD is out, right? Any way to somehow convert an HD signal before it enters coax, then unconvert back to an HD format on the other side?

2) I am feeding a normal TV with the coax from my DirecTivo in the LR now. When the HD DirecTivo's come out at the end of the year (we hope), I want to upgrade. Will the HD Tivo's support coax the same way?

3) Since it doesn't look good for HD in my bedroom, I think it's probably smarter to buy a non-HD plasma (one with lower native resolution). Right? If so, any great buys out there for something like that?

- Thanx in advance for any advice!
- Jon

My understanding is that the only cabling option in the US for HD is component cabling (three RCA cables just for the video). So that should answer 1 & 2, assuming I'm not totally wrong.

I think DVI cable would also work for an HD video signal. Yeah, sound - that's another cable I'd need. It's gonna have to be coax.

The HD DirecTivo's may support standard definition via coax... If it doesn't, I'd be screwed for the 2nd set in the bedroom.

- Jon

for answer the last question first......I have one of those "lower native res" plasma screens and have not had a problem with it. But I am not bothering with HD until it becomes more widespread, which given the current progress will not happen in my lifetime.

As for the other questions, I would answer with more questions.
What is your source that only has coax?
Is it a receiver or cable/sat box?

I have a DirecTivo box in my living room that feeds both my living room TV and also my bedroom TV.

I CAN install another sat box in the bedroom, but I really want to watch stuff thats Tivo'd from my living room...

- Jon

Could you post some more details? When you say "coax", do you mean:
- the 75-ohm coax for talking to a satellite dish or antenna
- a "composite" RCA cable (where one cable carries the whole video signal)
- a "component" RCA cable (Y, Pr, Pb - common outputs on many DVD players)

Based on your post, I'm assuming your place is pre-wired with 75-ohm cable-TV coaxial cable that eventually finds its way to your satellite dish. My advice would be to avoid long cable runs. Long analog cables are expensive and lossy, and require video amplifiers to make things work properly. Long DVI cables aren't really available yet (?). Instead, you should have your satellite converter box right next to your TV and run a direct line between them. For now, you can use component video or S-Video, and you can later on upgrade to DVI when converter boxes start supporting it (or if you want to drive your plasma from a PC).

In theory, an HD-DirecTiVo will be a drop-in replacement for your current DirecTiVo, although the HD one also supports over-the-air (OTA) signals. That means you'd have to put an OTA antenna on the roof and run another coax down to your new TiVo box. Presumably, the HD-DirecTiVo will have component outputs. It may or may not have DVI.



As to whether to buy a super-high-res vs. cheaper plasma, my advice is generally to spend less money now, since the prices on these things are falling so fast. Anything you buy today will be obsolete in two years, regardless, so you'll feel lots better tossing/selling a $3K entry-level plasma than a $15K super-duper plasma. Besides, that same $15K super plasma may well only cost $5K in two years.

I have a DirecTivo box in my living room that feeds both my living room TV and also my bedroom TV.

Ahh, I see. The "right" solution to this problem is the networked ReplayTV solution, where you've got Ethernet carrying compressed video around. Of course, TiVo doesn't make it easy to do that for the DirecTiVo boxes. Maybe you'd be happy with a second DirecTiVo?

Ok, here's how my place breaks down:

3 LNB dish on roof has 2 coax feeds going to living room to feed 2 tuners on DirecTivo
OTA HD antenna on roof feed going to Sony HD200

1 TiVo video output is feeding 34XBR800 in living room
1 TiVo video output is feeding a crap 27" TV (for now) in my bedroom

So without having to re-wire, I can watch standard def in my bedroom.

I can run a 3rd coax from the dish to the coax that's feeding my bedroom and then put another receiver there. But if I do that, I lose access to my living room TiVo... Don't want to do that.

So what I'm now considering is replacing the crap 27" with the Panny TH-42PWD5UY which is a lower res plasma that can be had for < $3k. I can hook up DVD and SD TiVo to it, just not HD...

Anything I'm not thinking of? Did this make sense?

- Jon

Right, plus I have a series 1 in my living room which will probably NEVER be supported. Then, throw HD into the mix... I doubt the HD signal will be Ethernet stream-able, at least initially.

2nd DirecTivo is a possibility, but just seems like overkill to me. I like having one database of programs to watch. Makes it nice and convenient.

- Jon

1) Sorry, but even if a consumer oriented HDTV modulator existed (which I don't believe it does) you would still need an HDTV receiver in your bedroom to decode the signal. In that case, you might as well just run the original signal (antenna, satellite, catv) to the bedroom.

2) I don't think this is known by anyone who will tak about it. Even if the TiVo doesn't have it, there are plenty of cheap modulators you can buy. Or you can use an old VCR.

It seems like a shame to me to take an expensive plasma set and feed it with coax, which is the lowest quality signal available (and isn't stereo).

-Dylan

Yeah, so I was just looking into ordering the plasma, and I realized that it won't accept the coax as an input. I'd have to feed it through a VCR first... Would a modulator further degrade the signal?

You are right that it's lame to feed a plasma with coax, but I can't figure out a better way that lets me have my cake and eat it too!

Coax isn't stereo??? Bummer.

I would be able to watch DVDs in my bedroom with a good image quality and in stereo...

- Jon

Can you give me a link for a cheap modulator? This would convert the coax to composite without a vcr? What about the audio?

- Jon

A modulator takes an a/v input and encodes it so it looks like a standard TV channel (usually 3 or 4). The TiVo has one built-in. The other half - the demodulator - is the TV tuner built in to your TV or VCR.

It's not that coax can't inherently carry stereo but generally devices with built in modulators don't generate a stereo signal. But I just looked and you can get cheap stereo modulators like this one.

-Dylan

Hm. So I can go coax in and s-video for video/RCA's for stereo (or mono) outs?

If so, thats the ticket.

- Jon

You've got it backwards. The one I linked takes the output from the TiVo and generates a stereo signal that can be run over a coax wire. You will still need a TV tuner in your bedroom. I've never seen a standalone tuner - people usually use VCR's if they need just a tuner.

-Dylan

Hm. So are you saying that using this modulator on the TiVo side, that I'd then be able to get stereo output on the plasma side? I wouldn't get stereo otherwise?

So there's no standalone demodulator? I hate to buy a VCR just to do the demodulation... I HATE VCRs!

- Jon

In reply to:

---

Hm. So are you saying that using this modulator on the TiVo side, that I'd then be able to get stereo output on the plasma side? I wouldn't get stereo otherwise?

---

Correct.

In reply to:

---

So there's no standalone demodulator? I hate to buy a VCR just to do the demodulation... I HATE VCRs!

---

I've never seen a standalone tuner. Sometimes plasma TV's have optional tuner/input boxes.

-Dylan

Can you say, ethernet?
Can you say network share?
Can you say, projection screen that will give you better resolution than HD anyway?

Details man! What are you referring to!

- Jon

Have you thought about something like this.
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk54a.htm
or http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk53a.htm#
it looks like the latter includes the sender etc but for 10 bucks less.
Apologies for the standard X10 popups!

I forgot to ask, does the tivo work with HD signals?
I thought it didn't, I don't own one so I can't be sure.

No, TiVo doesn't support HD YET. I hear that we should expect this in the middle of next year. I think their promises of "end of this year" are going to vaporize...

Have you seen either of those X10 solutions in action?

- Thanx
- Jon

Probably the highest quality solution to your problem is to buy a second DirecTiVo for the bedroom and run extra cabling from the sat dish to the second DirecTiVo (although this may require one of those multiswitch things). This also lets you record that many more simultaneous shows, plus you've got another digital audio out, which would let you do 5.1 Dolby Digital from the DirecTiVo in your bedroom (assuming you want Surround Sound while in bed and you don't mind adding the amp and speakers).

Then, the only question is whether you'll be happy with a non-HD plasma. As you point out, though, it will be fantastic for DVD watching. You may well be quite happy with SD in the bedroom and HD in the living room.

(edit: changed "HD in the bedroom" to "SD in the bedroom")

I know you are right, I was just trying to avoid doing all of that in the bedroom. WIring the rear speakers is an isue, wiring from the dish is an issue, and I'd REALLY rather have 1 TiVo feed both rooms...

Just ordered the plasma (2895.00 for the Panasonic TH-42PWD5UY) and 225.00 for the Panasonic side speakers. Got the Peerless articulating arm for 325.00 too.

- Thanx
- Jon

My big beef with US based HDTV is the almost complete lack of HD anything. OK a few not great shows and the superbowl don't count.
They still put that cheesy "High Definition" banner at the start of the programs in the same way they used to put the "Stereo broadcast" a few years ago.
Check out http://www.freeview.co.uk/ for how it could be..... broadcast digital TV.

[edit]
I forgot to add, this is also in the land of 17.5% sales tax, 400% fuel tax, no mortgage tax relief and a grand total 35-40% salary going to the government. So I can live with limited HD broadcasts

I would advise against using those X10 products for your application. They are as far from an HD signal as you're going to get. Don't get me wrong, I love them and I own the audio/video sender/receiver myself, but I use it for simple broadcasting of the video output from my ATI AIW card to the TV, mostly for watching downloaded TV episodes that are crummy quality anyway. Mostly, I use it to transmit audio from my PC for parties. While it's better than having yards of wires running through your house, the video quality is quite poor, and if someone walks in-between the units, the audio will crackle.

I'm a big X10 fan (despite their ads), but I can't imagine using the devices to send video to a plasma screen.


ps-I believe the difference in price is due to one having a coax connection and the other just has RCA jacks. At least I think that's what's going on. I can tell you that both include the transmitter and receiver. The whole package is called a "video sender."

I can run a 3rd coax from the dish to the coax that's feeding my bedroom and then put another receiver there. But if I do that, I lose access to my living room TiVo... Don't want to do that.

Another thought: for the short term (now until December), you could do exactly this. It will be cheap and high quality. In December or thereabouts, TiVo may finally ship the HD-DirecTiVo. At that point, the HD-DirecTiVo would go in the living room and the old DirecTiVo could migrate to the bedroom. Then, the only question is whether you can put up with TiVo fan and hard drive noise in your bedroom.

Haha. Exactly - the fan and HD on my series 1 is so bad that I'm now going to sell my T60 and buy a series 2. They are much more quiet, and I really don't need the hacking stuff that you can do on the series 1. I basically just record and watch my shows...

BTW, I've been hearing that TiVo won't make the November-December date for HD TiVo and even if they do, that it may be VERY expensive... Like 3k...

- Jon

Just ordered the plasma

Let us know how you like the TV when you get is. I am not really interested in chasing HiDef until the standard becomes more standard, but may be in the market for a nice plasma in a couple of months and that looks like a pretty decent set.

-Mike

Not that this is the ONLY set to buy, but from what I understand, the screaming deal on the Panasonic will end soon as most places are liquidating them as the new model is out now...

I found it on avsforum and there are others listed there. If not this set, I suspect that they'll always be another that can do the trick for you.

- Jon

Check out http://www.freeview.co.uk/ for how it could be..... broadcast digital TV

What has that got to do with HDTV ? Freeview isn't HD at all.

In some circles it may not have the GEE WOW factor of a plasma display, but you can build a really nice Multimedia PC with all the features of a TIVO, empeg , etc with 5.1 sound and a pc for under $1000. The remote I'm thinking of is RF, so you don't need ot worry about line of sight. For another 1k or so you can buy a very nice 1280x1024 (higher than HD TV) resolution projector which you can mount opposite where you want the screen to be. If you throw in a Gyration wireless keyboard and mouse combo (good to 25 feet, designed for presentations, so they'll work while you're in bed) you have an excellent multimedia system.

If you really want to pipe your TIVO stuff into the bedroom you could hack your tivo box or just put another media pc in the other room with ethernet running between the 2, or you could just put a wireless card in your tivo and in the media PC in the bedroom. Check: http://www.9thtee.com/tivoupgrades.htm for more info on the TiVo network stuff.

For another 1k or so you can buy a very nice 1280x1024 (higher than HD TV) resolution projector

The resolution of which is irrelevant if it can't understand a higher resolution format, of which HDTV is the only one (three? four?) available.

It may just be in my head, but DVDs on my home system running 1600x1200 sure look better than the HDTV stuff down at Fry's E.

In any case, the resolution of which is far from irrelevant when the additional capabilities of the media PC are considered.

I didn't get the impression that he intended to use it for anything more than a TV, but, your're right that it'll do better if you've got a computer hooked up to it.

I know its not HD but the UK and a great deal of Europe have already gone the cheap digital broadcast TV route and are doing serious HD work.
Whereas in the US the sluglike FCC, with all of its inherent vested interests, is the very best example of why government should stay out of attempting to legislate progress.

I always fall for things like this and have to ask the question anyway. Why does it say (Love Terry Jacks)??

I know its not HD but the UK and a great deal of Europe have already gone the cheap digital broadcast TV route and are doing serious HD work.
Whereas in the US the sluglike FCC, with all of its inherent vested interests, is the very best example of why government should stay out of attempting to legislate progress.

As I understand it the reason we ended with the fairly crappy digital terestial tv that we have is due to goverment meddling. I'm fairly sure that OnDigital were forced to use the platform that they used because the government told them they had to. Too late at night to go digging for the details though.

I always fall for things like this and have to ask the question anyway. Why does it say (Love Terry Jacks)??

My "punishment" from Tony for quoting the entire lyrics to Seasons in the Sun in a thread that strayed onto dangerous ground ;-)