The time has come that i have decided i want a stupid second car

i have looked at a few and so decided on a few basics i want a two seater, softtop would be desirable but it must be fun, also slightly impractical so i don't use it everyday.

So far

BMW Z3 to soft and don't like it for some reason
AUDI TT don't know why not too sure if i like it
Rover MGF Yuck way to fat me no like
Lotus elise very nice but the one i drove was a bit rattly and the gearshift was terrible
Caterham 7 Roadsport Very nice but a wee bit pricey but almost zero depreciation
toyota MR2 No test drive yet but seems like a nice car
Mazda MX5 took a test drive with lowered suspension and it was terrible
Honda NSX sat in hugos and drooled a great deal but also a bit on the pricey side
Porcshe Boxster Had a look but no test drive not too sure if this is what i want maybe a bit too practical and useable but the dash looks perfect for an empeg.

So any other ideas out there as to something with four wheels and great fun at a max of about 15000 pounds Also i don't think i want a FWD car

Does not need to be totally road orientated as also considering a thundering huge offroader

You said you don't like the BMW Z3, but how about the Z4 ?

I think it's a big improvement over the Z3.

A good friend of mine has a 2000 MR2, and it's a lot of fun. Except he won't let me drive it. Control freak.

He's having a little bit of a time fitting the empeg in it, but if he'd just take it to an expert, it'd be done in a half a day.

How about the Honda S2000 - that's a mad motor.

Z4 way too expensive as i want a max of about 15000 pounds and a quick Z4 will be way over that i imagine

The S2000 retails for £26,000.

Morgan? Panoz?

15000 UKP (22000 USD?) tends to eliminate most of the cars on your list unless you're willing to get one used. You might be able to scare up a used Honda S2000 that fits your budget. Likewise, you can probably get a 3+ year old BMW Z3, although based on my experience you'd be asking for a world of unreliability if you did so.

I drove a friend's Boxster once. I'm only 5'11" tall yet with the seat all the way back I still didn't fit very well in the car. I had to use the wheel telescoping thing to make room for my knees. I've had no trouble fitting into Miatas or MR2s.

If you seriously want fun-but-impractical, then check out a T-Rex three-wheeler. Mad, crazy thing.

Oh yeah second hand is defiantly a option on all but the caterham since it come flat pack

But i have an ancient BMW and it runs fine apart from the recent exploding waterpump but that was prevoked (rolling burnout on a skid pan)

As to the T-rex i have tryed a three wheeler so no idea has anyone driven on on the board or something similar like the grinnel scorpion

Mazda MX5 took a test drive with lowered suspension and it was terrible

Get a test drive in a proper one then, it is a wonderful car. Light, nippy, very informative steering, possibly the best feeling gearbox on the planet. About the only thing against it is the relative lack of power, but to be honest I see that as an advantage too as it stops me from killing myself. On a curvy road it can keep up with most things, thanks to the ease with which you can throw it around. Also very very reliable (116,000 miles in mine so far, only let me down once when a hose split after 115,000 miles).

When you drive one that hasn't been messed up you will love it, I promise. At 15k you should be able to find a brand new 1.8 MX5 if you shop around.

What about a TVR ? You can get a secondhand Chimera for that sort of money, insurance will be painful though.

The MR2 is fun to drive (tiny bit more power than the MX5) it is hopeless the instant you want to go away for to weekend with a friend though. I thought the MX5 had limited storage and then I saw the MR2...

I have managed a two week driving holiday in the MX5 with two people's lugage, in the MR2 that would be impossible.

Rover MGF Yuck way to fat me no like

Good taste, nasty, nasty car. Why would anyone want a sports car that you sit on rather than in ?

Okay i will put the MX5 back on the short list but not a brand new one as those headlights are just Too yuck the old pop up headlights are far nicer.

as to going on holiday i think i would probably take to BMW nice comfortable fast handles very well and does 43mpg cruising 37mpg thrashed oh and a huge 12 inch sub and wonderful sound system

as to the TVR never really considered one so might try and have a looky at one of those but i would think the insurance would be silly

Okay i will put the MX5 back on the short list but not a brand new one as those headlights are just Too yuck the old pop up headlights are far nicer

Agreed. In that case you can get a very good low mileage MX5 for well under 10k, leaving you plenty of cash to add a supercharger (take it from about 130bhp to something like 180bhp) and upgrade the brakes ;-)

Oh and adding an empeg is easy, it has two DIN slots to play with and hidden space to put an amp. Adding a sub woofer takes some thinking though:

http://www.moesrealm.com/miata/subwoofer.html

I have this http://www.jlaudio.com/stealthbox/miata.html in my 95. Doesn't look like they make one for > 98 though.

Love it.

- Jon

Vauxhall VX220? Looking on Auto Trader they tend to start at £16k though.

Toyota Supra MkIV? Goes like *stink* and IMO the best looking Jap car around. Available from £9k for the twin turbo (apparently the non-turbo is not worth bothering with).

I'll have to stick a word in for the Corvette, as for smiles-per-mile you can't buy better, even though it will treble your fuel bills overnight.

Gareth

Im gonna have to second the Honda S2000, drove a buddy of mine's and I was throughly impressed. A very badass motor and a badass suspension to boot, not to mention convertible.

I would have to say go with the MR2, but thats a bit biased considering between my friend and I we have the MKI, MKII and MKIII. The new MR2 is fun to drive, but its not terribly powerful. Also, as mentioned, there isn't much space and the top is sort of a pain in the ass to put down.

I like the used Supra idea. Those things look killer and are pretty quick. If I were you though, I'd definitely go with a 94 MKII MR2 Turbo. Those things are badass -- IMHO, the quintisenntial sports car.

Vauxhaul VX220 must admit i did overlook that as i thought that they would of not been filtering onto the market yet so that gets added to the list

Toyota Supra Not too sure about that maybe a bit big for my purposes and maybe too useable as a second car lerading to the problem of me using too much instead of the faithful diesel. As to best looking jap car sorry mazda RX 7 the last one were wonderfully good looking cars

Corvette great for drag racing but possibly well out of its depth on scottish roads due to its less than wonderful handling but never driven one so can't say.

Going for a test drive in a Mk3 today but not bothered about impracticalites as the current favorite car is a caterham 7 which has a boot that can take one very small bag, a roof that take about 5 to 10 minutes to put up and still leaks, when the roof is up it is almost imposible to get into car without wrapping your legs around your head, with the roof down it is still reasonably difficult.

There is an Mk2 turbo down the road from me so might go play later.

I like the used Supra idea.

Reliability on the used Supras can be a problem: just ask Rob about his .

Reliability on the used Supras can be a problem: just ask Rob about his

Come on, sooner or later he's got to fix enough faults that his 100% record of long journeys that end in garage work ends.

pca

Oi! Stop taking pot shots at my MGF, for the record, I won it in a competition, rather than choosing it, and, as far as I'm concerned it works fine for the sort of driving I'm doing - I think that sitting on it, rather than in it, was Clarkson on Top Gear, or in Car magazine, and I've never understood it!

I thought the Audi TT was one of the worst cars that I've owned, it was like getting in the black hole and looking out through the letterbox and you were just in no way involved in the driving experience.

I've never known a TVR owner that didn't curse the unreliability.

Maybe a Honda del Sol VTEC (Probably known as a CRX VTi in your neck of the woods). 170 hp I believe (again over on that side of the pond). Might be available to you with the trans-top (power removeable targa roof) but if not it still has a manual targa removable top. The last year they were available was the 1997 model year so you should be able to find one for a good price.

Other then that I agree with a used S2000.

Rene

I have to agree on the TT. Visibility in that car is horrendous, and I'm too big to fit in one.

In my experience, TVR's rarely break down as long as they are used all the time. But you're right - they are really unreliable if they are just weekend cars; they just don't like sitting.

Agree with you about the TT - if it was just a bit more responsive I'd be interested.

The Nissan 300ZX is a pretty stupid car, and you can pick up a 2nd hand one pretty cheap. Twin turbo, targa top, top speed of around 185mph. Damn good fun!!

The Toyota MR2 (old style) and the Mazda MX5 are silly runabouts which are also good fun on the track, as well as being fairly boostable. The MX5 especially is very nippy through corners - not as good as an Elise, but not so clunky either.

I suppose I laid myself open to criticism by getting my MGF in as the only car in the group photo at Amersfoort.

I'd still put a good second hand E - Type Jag. on my list, but maybe it's just nostalgia.

For goodness sake don't get a Morgan, as they say, if you run over a coin, you can tell which way up it is!

Sitting in the driving seat of a Morgan feels like climbing into a coffin. It is so narrow, very unpleasant driving position.

The main thing i have against the MGF is it just looks to me a bit overinflated, lardy even doesn't have the sports car look.

The silly suspension also kind of puts me off.

If TVRs don't like occasional use then they are off the list as i have to go away for 4 months twice a year and it is a struggle to get my parents to use the BMW so a TVR would never get used.

I'm 6' 3" and years ago, the brother in law of a girlfriend of nine polled up in a brand new Morgan to take me to the pub, it was a nice day, and the pub in question had loads of people stood ouside, he then had to ignominiously drag me backwards by the armpits out of the "coffin".

Mind you, I've had the same experience in a Marcos and a Lambo Muira (doubly embarrassing, at the motor show)!

it just looks to me a bit overinflated

I wish it was a bit! It's a bit tight for me, but I have come to cope, although I have to change to very flat shoes.

I know the old Moulton hydralastic isn't to everybody's taste, but it seems to work fine in this context, certainly better than some other similar models I've tried.

If a Caterham is too expensive for you, try a Westfield (www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk). Same thing really, but as you aren't paying for an expensive badge on the front, you get much more car for less money

Although they are not practical, offer no protection from the elements, have no creature comforts, make you go deaf, have no crash protection, etc.

They are, however, huge fun.

New MR2 is very good, but again not very practical.

How about the new VX220 Turbo? The same as an Elise, but with a better engine and a warranty worth having.

The empeg was way too expensive for me but i bought two eventually

A caterham does not seem to be way beyond my price range and i have the feeling i would be kicking myself at buying a less extreme car.

I have had a test drive in a caterham and it was very good also had a test drive in a elise and too was good.

I have not had a look at a westy yet but i feel it is going to be a close run thing between the elise or the caterham.

Though if you can fit a empeg to a caterham could be a serious callenge

I just love the look of the Westfield XTR2, with its bike engine !
[edit]
Sorry, I forgot about the SEiGHT with its Rover V8.

Westfield really have come a long way......

I've always liked these;
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/index.html

Yes but they are at a bare mininum £20,000 and for a go set of toys over 30 grand.

asides from that they are stupidly fast which means a very dead licence something like a caterhan can be fun at lower speeds

All the Ultima's I've seen (at trackdays) have been very slow. I think the owners were just too scared of the power they had under their foot.

In your shopping around, keep this point firmly in mind:

It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

tanstaafl.

All the Ultima's I've seen (at trackdays) have been very slow. I think the owners were just too scared of the power they had under their foot.

That's probably it, since I had a good bit of fun dancing with an Ultima at Sears Point. He was obviously more comfortable driving his own Ultima that I was driving my boss' F50, but we were both hustling pretty good.

But I had as much fun driving the Birkin (another 7 clone) as the F50 (though I didn't attract quite the attention )

If you are interested in this type of car, go to Trackdaycarhire.com and check out his Westfield Megablade! Willie's prices are excellent, especially if you have a couple of mates to spread the cost,and Knockhill is his local track - although he is happy to go to any track in the UK. He also has a seriously souped up Cerbera which you can go for a spin in.

Nice link thank you

But have decided against bike engine power as while it makes huge sense for power to wieght

two factors go against it.

Not very nice for a long treck that i do occasionaly like to amersfoort (Tempted to do that though not sure where to put an empeg in a car with no dash, no doors, no boot,)

I drive a diesel as an every day car a very good diesel but still a huge torquey diesel i can reprogram to car engines just i stalled the caterham demostrator twice and an elise once but a bike engine to much reprogramming.

But shall pay a visit when i return

anyone fancy a track day up north ?

I think the big problem with TVR's is that they only get used as weekend cars, so people forget how they feel and don't notice stuff, or just leave problems until it is too late rather than getting them fixed as soon as they show up.

I have had my Chimaera for about 3.5 years now, and have not had any real problems with it, I didn't do long trips lkike you (mine were max 1 month) but other than a flat battery when I got home there was nothing wrong, and mine used to live outside all year round. The car has been stood for a year since I moved to the states, but it has just been serviced before being shipped over here, and there was nothing out of the usual found, the car should be here once customs gets itself sorted out, and then it will get used a lot more again

As for insurance, I was paying 700 pounds a year, fully comp with trackdays, not bad for a 28 year old with full no claims.

If you have any more questions let me know.

If you don't mind me asking - what insurance company? I'm 32, have 65% no claims discount and am still paying £750 on an Insurance Group 17 car. I am obviously interested in any cheaper insurance that still delivers when you need it.

I got mine through Sunninghill.

Before the TVR I had a Rover 620ti (group 17 too) and never paid more than 500 a year on fully comp for that, and I was only 25 when I bought that

Others to try are Direcly Line, Tesco, and Peart, all appear to give competitive prices (for me anyway).

Privilege do me for sub-650 on the group 20 NSX (inc protected NCB); also 32 with full NCB. The car's garaged, which might make a difference...

Hugo