Hi I am woindering how the karma will handle searching of both ogg and mp3 files at the same time. If I were to search on any number of variables would karma display both ogg and mp3 at the same time or would I have to search seperately? if i didn't know which files were which would I not be able to tell the difference on the karma's interface? How easy is it to setup playlists with both ogg and mp3?

Lets also throw FLAC into the mix for all of the questions above?

Thanks

Hi I am woindering how the karma will handle searching of both ogg and mp3 files at the same time.

Your question makes no sense when applied to the Karma. The only reason that it cares whether a track is MP3/WMA/Ogg or FLAC is when deciding which codec to process it with.

Otherwise, every type of supported track is treated equivalently.

If I were to search on any number of variables would karma display both ogg and mp3 at the same time or would I have to search seperately?

It would display them at the same time. As explained, it doesn't actually care that one track is MP3 and another is Ogg, until it's time to actually play them.

if i didn't know which files were which would I not be able to tell the difference on the karma's interface?

Why do you particularly care which format your file is? I believe that the track information screen will tell you this information, but Karma doesn't require that you know what format your files are in.

How easy is it to setup playlists with both ogg and mp3?

Easy. As I said -- Karma doesn't care what format a file is until it tries to play it.

Lets also throw FLAC into the mix for all of the questions above?

Makes no difference.

wow
never seen so many ways to say the same thing.

it seems to me that since mp3 and ogg vorbis have different tagging systems that there might be discrepancies. Since I am not an expert on this subject i was just wondering what those differences might be and how or if that would affect the Karma?

it seems to me that since mp3 and ogg vorbis have different tagging systems that there might be discrepancies.

Ah. The key piece of information you're missing is:

The Cambridge team has always designed their products to work off of their own internal database. Never directly off of the tags.

When you put an MP3 file into any of their products (be it the empeg car, the Karma, the Rio Central, whatever), it only touches the tag the very first time it's dropped into the software (emplode, Rio Music Manager, whatever). It reads the tag just that once, to import the track information into its database.

From that moment on, the player has no concept of tags. The player software itself can't even read the tags. Only Emplode/RMM can read the tags, and only at the initial import time. Everything else except that initial import is done in the database.

The database entry for each song file is the same. The only thing that differs in the database between an Ogg file and an MP3 file is the one flag telling it which audio stream decoder to use when playing it. Everything else that deals with the song file is identical regardless of the file format.

So that's why your question seemed so strange to us. We knew that key tidbit of information (and now you do, too. ).

RMM/RMML's Order of tag preference (last in list "wins") at import time:

MP3: ID3v1, ID3v2
Ogg: IdentificationHeader
FLAC:Ogg comments, ID3v2

In the case of MP3, I believe they are superimposed -- so ID3v1 gets read in, then ID3v2 is overlayed on top (and duplicates, ID3v2 wins). However, on FLAC, I think if there are ID3v2, it and only it gets used.

For uniqueness calculation:
MP3: After ID3v2 to before ID3v1
Ogg: Entire file
Flac: After ID3v2 to end of file

Other than that, they are treated equally (except obviouslly, the choice of codec for playback on the player)

I believe they are superimposed -- so ID3v1 gets read in, then ID3v2 is overlayed on top

Yes. That's not how it's actually implemented (IIRC), but that's the result.

Now if only we had a function in emplode to write back the contents of the database to the tags themselves... hint hint.. Yeah, I know you've heard it before (from me no less )

Bruno

Now if only we had a function in emplode to write back the contents of the database to the tags themselves

I'm not the one you want to be hassling -- in 9 days time, I'll not be employed by Rio. I'm not sure who you actually want to be hassling, though.

More sensibly, plans for the v3.0 car player software involve making it compatible with Rio Music Manager (which will require changes to RMM as well -- it doesn't currently support heirarchical playlists), which will make this stuff easier in future.

Just for clarification... this is the reason that changes made to the "tags" in the music manager do not edit the actual tags and also do not go with the music if exported off an empeg... Correct?

Sorry to see you go Roger...you've been really great to the empeg community. I'm assuming you'll still be an empeg owner and thus on the forums occasionally?

Out of curiosity, do you have another job lined up yet?

Correct.

thanks tfabris

thanks tfabris

admit it - you preferred the initial response

I'm not the one you want to be hassling -- in 9 days time, I'll not be employed by Rio.

What are you doing wasting time here then? Get back to work.

this is the reason that changes made to the "tags" in the music manager do not edit the actual tags

This is the reason that changes made in emplode don't change the actual tags. In Rio Music Manager, changes to files listed in the Media Library are written to the files as well. Using the term "music manager" might be misleading.

Get back to work.

But I'm not working on emplode, anyway (or RMM2 for that matter), so it wouldn't do you any good .

Out of curiosity, do you have another job lined up yet?

No.

Well, if you want to move to move to the Armpit of America™ (South Carolina) and program for far less than you are currently making, I've got a great job for you at my company

Anyway...good luck finding employment in a rough market.

Anyway...good luck finding employment in a rough market.

<mental picture of Roger working at Billingsgate>

"What sort of muppet landed this cod? The spec clearly says halibut!"

Peter

err...maybe that should have read "job market"

"What sort of muppet landed this cod? The spec clearly says halibut!"

ROFLMAO

Roger, I'm sure you will be sorely missed there. That lady in London certainly must be someone very special. I wish you both the very best.

That lady in London certainly must be someone very special

Either that, or she's rich...he doesn't seem too concerned about not having a job lined up