It was one of those instants you regret for a long time.

I was swapping the player over from left to right hand, getting out of the car and preparing to get my front door keys. In a moment the player had slipped from my grasp. My foot nearly caught it, but it landed on the driveway nonetheless. Fortunately, on inspection, I could only see a tiny bit on the back side of the corner of the front panel that was chipped - no scratches, no dents, everything seemed to be in working order.

Until, that is, I put it back in the car.

Now, I can hear it boot up - the hard drive spins and clicks - but then the player remains mute and inert. The only thing that works is that I can hold down the top button to put it into and take it out of standby mode - everything else does nothing.

When plugged into home power it behaves exactly as above, but I can synchronise to it and read from its database. I've posted this, and a copy of the serial line output on boot, to support@empeg.com, but if anyone can tell me what's wrong and what I have to do to fix it I'd be eternally grateful. If it turns out just to be a cable that's popped off then I'd be ecstatic, but all the signs tell me something has gone dramatically wrong with the display board...

adTHANKSvance,

Paul

P.S. my .sig needs to be updated :-(

Two major possibliities, both of which are fixable.

(1) broken display nipple.

(2) pinched display cable, resulting in one broken (cut) wire on the small ribbon cable.

Cheers

Some questions:

1) Can you use any serial commands, hijack kernel or other interface to control the player? Perhaps it is running, but that you cannot get to the controls?

2) Can you post that boot log here?

3) The fact that you can sync and see things correctly seems to indicate good disks and the player application starting properly. That just leaves the display board and maybe the audio connectors.

the hard drive spins and clicks

Sounds like the impact has dislodged the IDE cable. This has happened to me twice simply because the bag that my empeg is kept in has been put down hard. (Which is why I keep an allen key and screwdriver in the bag). I'm guessing that if your display was working then you'd see the No Hard Disk message.
You display not working could be one of a few things. As Mark mentioned, cable fray is a possibility, although that would usually happen over a period where it is rubbing, and not a single jolt. I discount the possibility that the cable has popped off the mainboard because your LED and top button work. The most likely suspect is that the nipple on the VFD has broken and let all the magic smoke out. (Search the FAQ for a better description and photos).

So to recap, I think you have 2 problems.
1) IDE cable needs reseating. Do this and you should then hear music.
2) VFD broken. If this is the case then it's going to cost you some money unfortunately. I'd suggest that sourcing the VFD and then finding a local TV repair place or known competant soldering friend would save you a lot on shipping charges.

Hard drive is fine -- he can even do a sync (see original post).

It's either the nipple or the display cable "pinch" issue. Most likely, anyway.

Doh. Should learn to read.

OK, I've taken the top off, and I can't see any damage to the VFD nipple - even the little end bobble of glass that's quite close to the Pulsing LED of Power is untouched. I can't see any damage to the display cable either, but I haven't taken the hard drive tray off and had a really close look. There is a scorch mark near the bottom right-hand corner of the VFD, though, near a wire or component that comes up close to the glass. Is this normal? (I don't know, I've never taken the front off before.

I've yet to test its response to serial commands, and as it's a Mark I I can't telnet into it or similar. The log of the serial session is:

empeg-car v0.04 19990121 (altman@empeg.com)
If there is anyone present who wants to upgrade the flash, let them speak now,
or forever hold their peace...it seems not. Let fly the Penguins of Linux!

e000 v1.04
Copying kernel...
Calling linux kernel...
Uncompressing Linux........................... done, booting the kernel.
Linux version 2.2.17-rmk5-np17-empeg52-hijack-v336 (root@ibbm) (gcc version 2.95
.3 20010315 (release)) #2 Wed May 28 20:10:44 EDT 2003
Processor: Intel StrongARM-1100 revision 9
NetWinder Floating Point Emulator V0.94.1 (c) 1998 Corel Computer Corp.
empeg-car player (hardware revision 4, serial number 00061)
Command line: mem=8m
Calibrating delay loop... 207.67 BogoMIPS
Memory: 7228k/8M available (676k code, 20k reserved, 264k data, 4k init)
Dentry hash table entries: 1024 (order 1, 8k)
Buffer cache hash table entries: 8192 (order 3, 32k)
Page cache hash table entries: 2048 (order 1, 8k)
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Starting kswapd v 1.5
SA1100 serial driver version 4.27 with no serial options enabled
ttyS00 at 0xf8010000 (irq = 15) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS01 at 0xf8050000 (irq = 17) is a SA1100 UART
ttyS02 at 0xf8030000 (irq = 16) is a SA1100 UART
Signature is 67706d65 'empg'
Forced DC/Car mode
Scheduling custom logo.
empeg display initialised.
empeg dsp audio initialised
empeg dsp mixer initialised
empeg dsp initialised
empeg remote control/panel button support initialised (Using FIQs).
empeg usb initialised, USBN9602 revision 1
empeg state support initialised 0089/8893 (save to d0005680).
empeg RDS driver initialised
empeg power state driver initialised
Linux video capture interface: v1.00
empeg FM radio driver (Philips).
RAM disk driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size
empeg dual channel IDE
Probing primary interface...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
hda: TOSHIBA MK4019GAX, ATA DISK drive
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
No drives found, retrying...
Registering drives...
ide0 at 0x040-0x047,0x078 on irq 7
hda: TOSHIBA MK4019GAX, 38154MB w/0kB Cache, CHS=4864/255/63
empeg-flash driver initialized
Partition check:
hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 > hda2 hda3 hda4
RAMDISK: ext2 filesystem found at block 0
RAMDISK: Loading 320 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... done.
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
empeg-pump v0.03 (19980601)
Press Ctrl-A to enter pump...VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
change_root: old root has d_count=1
Trying to unmount old root ... okay
Freeing unused kernel memory: 4k initempeg init 0.8
I see this is a developer image!
Mounting proc
Mounting first music partition
Tried to mount /dev/hda4 as reiserfs but got error 19
Mounting second music partition
Tried to mount /dev/hdc4 but got error 15
Error mounting partitions (possibly already mounted)
Remounting first music partition read-only
Remounting second music partition read-only
No secondary hard disk
Press 'q' now to go into development mode. You Have Zero Seconds To Comply...
Starting player
Hijack: intercepting config.ini

player.cpp : 385:empeg-car 2.00 2003/04/01.


Does that give any clues? I'll search riocar.org for a list of the serial commands later - now I've got to go to work (with no music - aaaararhhhghghghhgh!)

Thanks in advance,

Paul

Mmm.. somewhere I missed it when you said it was a Mk1. Dunno then. Probably something simple though, if the nipple is still there. Take it apart and check all the connectors and cables.

Cheers

Hmmm...

The scorch mark is normal. Part of the VFD manufacture.

I am surprised how many times the hard drive had to retry. It found it, and you could sync, but maybe the cable is loose but still making contact.

You see nothing on the VFD even while booting? Perhaps the VFD cable is loose on the main board as well?

I think the drive messages are normal probing activity for the mk1. Can anyone else confirm?

In reply to:

---

The scorch mark is normal. Part of the VFD manufacture.

---

That's a relief then, although I suspected it was possible. Scorch marks don't happen by dropping things.

In reply to:

---

I am surprised how many times the hard drive had to retry. It found it, and you could sync, but maybe the cable is loose but still making contact.

---

I have to admit I would have expected there to have been more problems if the hard disk cable was loose. It's certainly nice and tight on the drive. I will take the drive tray off and have a good peer around the motherboard this evening. Hopefully I'll just find the VFD cable has popped off or slipped or summat.

---

You see nothing on the VFD even while booting? Perhaps the VFD cable is loose on the main board as well?

---

This is what's really puzzling me. As far as I know that's the only connection between the front panel - which has the VFD, buttons and IR on it - and the motherboard. If it were off completely, I wouldn't be able to see the screen, use the buttons or the remote - all true, except I can put the player into and out of standby by holding the top button down. So there must be some connection. I can't even use the top button to pause and unpause the player. What on earth could cause this?

I haven't heard anything back from support yet - will keep on hoping. I have to admit I haven't been following the BBS too closely recently - what's the current state of play regarding support?

Hoping for the best,

Paul

It may be a long while before you hear from support please see this post. Was the driveway it fell on cement or blacktop ? I know it sounds like a dumb question but blacktop wouild "give" a little more that cement.

I think the drive messages are normal probing activity for the mk1. Can anyone else confirm?

That is exactly how the drive detection used to look on my old MK1.

I dropped my mk2 and the hard drive tray moved down and pulled the cable connector for the display halfway off the board but Rob S was able to fix it while totally rat arsed.

luckily i dropped it on the way to the empeg meet

In reply to:

---

It may be a long while before you hear from support please see this post.

---

Ach, that's bad news. I hope everything's all right with Rob - he's got my full support.

In reply to:

---

Was the driveway it fell on cement or blacktop ? I know it sounds like a dumb question but blacktop wouild "give" a little more that cement.

---

Cement, unfortunately. It's not a dumb question, it just doesn't help any

Well, I'm continually more puzzled. I can't see any wires or leads that have been crushed, folded, bent, spindled, mutilated, filed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. One of the boards at the back of the empeg (plugged into the main board with a jumper block and a white block to cables on the top side, in the middle of the back) is a teensy bit loose, but it's definitely plugged all the way in. I just wobbled it slightly when I touched it, is all.

No obvious damage to the VFD or any other component that I can see. Haven't tried the serial line yet.

BTW, what's the greenish LED-like thing to the left of the two IR LEDs, above the Pulsing LED of Power?

Here's hoping,

Paul

P.S. There's a new mix in the offing...

The greenish LED thing is probably one of the IR receivers. There's a set for IrDA and one for normal consumer IR which the remote uses.
Does anything rattle if you move the empeg gently?

Just a double-check for my own clarification:

a) you have no display, even at boot.
b) you get the flashing standby LED as normal
c) pressing and holding the top botton gets rid of the standby LED
d) you can get no sound out of the player, even when tinkering with the controls
e) you can sync correctly and still see your data

Hmm... What if the circuits controlling the four buttons, or maybe just one of the bottom three (no knob on the Mark1) were somehow broken and sending gibberish? If shorted, you might have lost a fuse or fuses, but the button may think it is constantly pressed, flooding the player with a stream of commands.

Does anything look strange on the display board itself? Can you unplug the display board and (using hijack or serial commands to remote control the player) hear music out in that state???

Paul, this is a Mk1, right? Hmm, I wonder if this or something similar has any bearing?

Hi Paul,

I'm an electronics engineer based in Sydney and would be happy to have a look at the player for you (no charge for labour).

I just noticed that your profile says you're in Canberra, I thought you were in Melbourne.

Rod.

In reply to:

---

I'm an electronics engineer based in Sydney and would be happy to have a look at the player for you (no charge for labour).

---

Woah, that'd be great! Do you want me to mail it up to you, or do you happen to be dropping past Canberra some time in the next couple of days? I'd drive up to drop it off, but I'm going skiing this weekend (long ski season, yippee! ).

Bought a 1/8" to dual RCA jack, am playing from my CD player direct to the front inputs on my amp. It's not brilliant but at least I still have music.

In reply to:

---

I just noticed that your profile says you're in Canberra, I thought you were in Melbourne.

---

This is very true. I moved down to Melbourne to be with a girl, and now I've moved to Canberra to be with another. The rest of the details are long, boring and painful to everyone but me , and this time it seems to be working much better.

This is what I love about this community - people are willing to help out.

In anticipation,

Paul

In reply to Tony, no, it doesn't seem to be the case. The case isn't getting warm beyond normal (that I can see) and the serial port doesn't move in the slightest. Which is probably fortunate...

In reply to Paul's questions, your understanding a) to e) is correct. I haven't yet tried prodding it with Hyperterm, but I certainly don't see any feedback about what it's doing (playing new tracks, etc, if I leave it going, and I haven't checked the external outputs in home mode - lax of me, I know, but I don't have the cables to hand). Nothing looks strange or out of the ordinary, and I can't smell anything that indicates friodes or leaking of magic smoke. I have'nt unplugged the display board entirely, no - will it tolerate that?

In reply to Trevor, no - apart from the usual rattling of the back connector and the tiny bit of movement on the drive tray, nothing rattles when I shake it hard.

This is really puzzling me something fierce. And especially since my partner's finally got used to it and actually looks forward to having it in the new car, my loss is more keen than ever.

Will try attacking it with hyperterm tonight.

Paul

Update:

I sent the empeg, suitably padded and boxed for the rigors of its 300KM journey to Sydney, on Wednesday. No more progress in my testing before that. Now making do with CD player - I don't know how people can stand only having an hour's worth of music available!

Thanks to everyone that has helped out so far, and a big thanks to Rod for the electronic expertise!

Paul

Hi Paul,

The player just arrived, will have a look at it tonight.

Rod.

Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, still going strong!

It seems your signature needs to be updated. With any luck, it will be true again soon.

Matthew

OK we have music!

The only think I can see wrong with the display is possibly a hairline fracture in the glass separator .

There is data on some of the display pins but I would like to get a display datasheet to confirm that all the drive signals are OK. Anyone have a link? The only data I could find on the Noritake site was for a module (MN12832E).

Anyone know where Paul can get a display.

Rod.

Um, Noritake???

No, I am serious. I have called the local Noritake site and ordered VFDs from them before. Getting quantity is easier, but single orders can be done. I did a group order for those exact VFDs a while ago, but I don't think any went to Australia. You may have better luck getting in touch with them directly...

Worst case, I may have one spare left from the last time I bulk ordered these things. If you cannot get it directly, PM me, and I will try to ship it out to you. ...

Whimsical thought - a strange odyssey for that VFD. From Japan to Chicago to New Jersey to Australia...

Worst case, I may have one spare left from the last time I bulk ordered these things.

I thought the Mk1 and Mk2 VFD modules were different ones. Are they the same?

I do not know. I do not have the Mark1, but I think it is just the display board that is different - the actual VFD glass should be the same. Rod read off the Noritake part number of PaulWay's Mark1 in his posts, and it matched my previous posts for the last bulk order for the Mark2. I am guessing that it will work.

IIRC, the VFD is identical (or at least compatible). You'd need Hugo for a definitive answer, though.

OK we have music!

Woohoo! poings around the room like a ferret on freebase sugar

Out of curiosity, have you worked out what the problem was that was causing it to not respond to commands?

The only think I can see wrong with the display is possibly a hairline fracture in the glass separator.

If anyone (Rod, Rob, anyone at empeg) needs any money in the process of repairing this, let me know and PayPal can be your friend... (or PayMate, or direct money transfer, or international wire, or small brightly-coloured beads, or...)

Thanks in advance,

Paul (still poinging!)

In reply to:

---

Out of curiosity, have you worked out what the problem was that was causing it to not respond to commands?

---

Honestly I haven't found anything wrong with the audio section or any problems responding to the front panel or the remote. I should have confirmed the symptoms before I opened the unit up, did a visual check and re-seated all the connections.

I have only checked the RCA audio outputs because I don't have a Mark 1 dock. Did you try the RCA outputs or only test using the dock? I'll put the scope on the dock outputs and see if they look OK.

I have a couple of companies chasing the display for me but haven't managed to find anyone local that has them as a stock item. Hopefully I'll have some answers on Monday. We may have to take Paul (pgrzelak) up on his offer.

Rod.

I have found a local supplier for the MN12832E Noritake display. The cost is $75.30AUD ($52USD) but unfortunately they are not available until early December. This price and lead time is consistent with what Paul G (pgrzelak) was quoted in the Another VFD bulk order thread.

Paul W, let me know if you want me to order a display or two or wether you would rather take Paul G up on his offer so we can get the player fixed sooner then December.

Rod.

Honestly I haven't found anything wrong with the audio section or any problems responding to the front panel or the remote. I should have confirmed the symptoms before I opened the unit up, did a visual check and re-seated all the connections.

Odd. Very odd. But if it's working, don't break it just to find out what went wrong

Hopefully I'll have some answers on Monday. We may have to take Paul (pgrzelak) up on his offer.

Well, Paul G, we've found out that the VFDs won't be in Australia until early December, so if you could ship your spare to Rob I'll pay for its replacement. Let me know how you want money (PayPal works fine for me) and we'll sort it out. As per my response in the VFD order thread, I'll also get a spare.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

Greetings!

It looks like there was a bulk order put in at the factory, and all of the Noritake vendords (Chicago, NJ, Australia and Japan) are all part of this order. Looks like I might need to add a few more on there...

Meanwhile, I have received Rod's address, and I hope to get the VFD packaged and shipped tomorrow. More details to follow via PM / email.

The VFD has arrived from Paul G.

I won't get a chance to install it until tomorrow night.

Rod.

No worries. I wouldn't want you to interrupt your work or do a rush job on it. I've PM'd Paul G regarding paying him for the VFD; let me know if there's any reimbursement you require.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

It's fixed .



Installed the VFD from Paul G without any problems, it's been on soak test for the last hour or so.

The audio from the RCAs sounds fine and the outputs on the docking connector look good on the oscilloscope (once I got the grounding right).

The whole player is back together with hot melt glue and loctite in the appropriate places.

Will pack it up and send it home tomorrow.

Looks like Paul's signature won't need to change after all.

Rod.

Whooooohooooooooo!

Starts poinging around the office like a crazed mink on speed. Realises he's at work and tries to calm down.

That's the most wonderful sight I've seen in quite a while. Rod, I owe you several large favours - if ever you need anything, and I mean that, let me know.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

what a great forum,thats awsome you fixed that for him and paul sending the screen you guys are the best.buy the way mine guit working. just kidding.

Don't even say that! The last estimate I had for delivery of the next round of bulk VFDs is January.

And the express delivery envelope has just been torn apart by my quivering hands to reveal my empeg in all its scratched, well-loved glory. Thanks once again to Rod, Paul and everyone who has made this possible - and thanks to the empeg BBS for everything it's done!

(thinks: I knew I should have driven my car in today...)

Have fun,

Paul