#189865 - 18/11/2003 10:06
The Meatrix
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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The American agricultural industry has changed drastically over the past 20 years, using methods that improve profit margins, but endanger the health of the public while being unnecessarily cruel to the animals being raised.
Learn more, by entering The Meatrix.
--Dan.
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#189866 - 18/11/2003 11:48
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: djc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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#189867 - 18/11/2003 18:34
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: djc]
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old hand
Registered: 17/07/2001
Posts: 721
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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wow, I live in downtown Boston, and I guess there is only one place that I can go to buy foods that are 'Meatrix Safe' according to eatwellguide.com.
Give me a fucking break. You try comming up with a plan to feed 270 million overweight Americans. Guess what? It involves factory farming. It's called efficiency.
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//matt
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#189868 - 18/11/2003 18:47
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: ithoughti]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I don't wanna get into this argument, but there's a lot more to it than that.. and a lot more issues than just where the meat is coming from... like where the meat goes and why.
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#189869 - 19/11/2003 02:38
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: ithoughti]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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You try comming up with a plan to feed 270 million overweight Americans.
1. Don't feed them
2. Feed 270 million normal weight Americans. That should use less food.
_________________________
-- roger
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#189870 - 19/11/2003 08:48
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: loren]
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old hand
Registered: 17/07/2001
Posts: 721
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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I was feeling particularly hostile yesterday. I guess I just can't stand PETA propaganda. They always make it seem like there are such easy solutions, when the situation is much more complicated.
On the surface, the site was funny though.
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//matt
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#189871 - 19/11/2003 09:21
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: djc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I don’t want to get involved much in this discussion, but I do have one small question. Why do all of the restaurants I frequent always offer such large portions? Does everyone eat more than I do, or are they simply trying to overfeed us? I almost never finish everything on my plate when I go out to eat, and when I do I always feel that I’ve overeaten. I’m sure that I could probably deal with portions 1/3 or ½ the size I usually get. My only guess is that larger portions allow restaurants to charge more and make bigger profits (economy of scale: since the preparation cost is the same, you can probably make a bigger profit for a larger piece of meat, pasta, or whatever).
I only bring this up because it absolutely amazes me how much food is wasted (or at least unnecessary) when I go out to eat. We almost never waste food when we eat at home, and I hate paying for food that I don’t eat, especially when I know people are starving in other countries (I can hear my mother saying it right now). Many times I overeat when I go out because I loathe paying for stuff I don’t use.
BTW: it seems the "Meatrix" plot makes a lot more sense that the "Matrix" one did!
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#189872 - 19/11/2003 09:51
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: ithoughti]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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Matt- I thought the site was funny, too. As Al Franken would say, though, it's "kidding on the square".
I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not what you might call a "PETA freak", but the more I read about our food supply, the more concerned I have become. You may be perfectly happy with the meat produced by factory farms, but I really do think that the hormones, antibiotics, etc that get pumped into the animals cannot be good for our long-term health. If anyone is interested in a good book on the topic, check out Dominion, by Matthew Scully.
And are you really comfortable with the methods of factory farming? Or does it maybe make you a little squeamish, but you'd rather not think too much about it? Not to go too much off on a tangent, but I frankly of tired of big business "maximizing shareholder value" by cutting costs to the bone, sacrificing quality, exploiting people and resources, and eliminating competition. I've always been a fan of the low-volume, high-quality approach, whether we're talking about chickens, operating systems or MP3 players. I always root for the little guy, and I like to vote with my wallet.
Besides, I love to cook, and I love to eat. If you've ever had the opportunity to try meat grown with more traditional methods, the difference in flavor is amazing. Try a pork chop from the Niman Ranch sometime, and see if you're happy buying the stuff from the local supermarket anymore.
--Dan.
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#189873 - 19/11/2003 09:59
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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Jeff- I think you hit the nail on the head regarding portion size:
My only guess is that larger portions allow restaurants to charge more and make bigger profits (economy of scale: since the preparation cost is the same, you can probably make a bigger profit for a larger piece of meat, pasta, or whatever). From a marketing standpoint, restaurants don't want a reputation of providing stingy portions (even if it's a minority opinion). Have you ever heard someone say, "I'm never going back to that restaurant, they give you too much food for your money"?
And how many Americans were raised to "clean your plate" when you eat? I think those two factors (large portion size and guilt over wasted food) are largely responsible for our level of obesity. Oh, and maybe the types of food we are conditioned to eat has something to do with it, too. 
--Dan.
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#189874 - 19/11/2003 10:18
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: djc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Have you ever heard someone say, "I'm never going back to that restaurant, they give you too much food for your money"? Not many, but it has been a reoccurring discussion among the “lunch bunch” here at work- Admittedly I’m generally the start of these, though.
My wife and I used to frequent one restaurant for the sole reason that they had a very reasonably priced menu of “smaller” items. Where most of the entrees were $6-$8 (which is what I would order), my wife would order of the $4-$5 menu and get a smaller portion. This is the only instance I can recall of my wife ever finishing her plate in a restaurant; she usually only ever gets about halfway through whatever she orders. This irritates me so much because I feel like I’m wasting money, but really there aren’t any options. Recently this restaurant got rid of these “smaller” items and now we hardly ever eat there.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#189875 - 19/11/2003 11:30
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: djc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Besides, I love to cook, and I love to eat. If you've ever had the opportunity to try meat grown with more traditional methods, the difference in flavor is amazing. Try a pork chop from the Niman Ranch sometime, and see if you're happy buying the stuff from the local supermarket anymore. Perhaps Jabz, Burdell1 and friends can chime in more on this, but I was in New Zealand recently for a friend's wedding, and I was amazed at the quality of ordinary meat bought inexpensively from ordinary supermarkets. I guess it's hard to tell how much of that is due to valuing good-quality preparation as opposed to valuing good-quality farming, but I suspect both play their part. New Zealanders, as far as I can see, have an obsession with healthy eating that borders on the unhealthy  -- and if a whole nation demands meat of that quality, all the supermarkets are going to be supplying it. So it doesn't have to be the way PETA describe, although I guess NZ has a much better pasture-to-population ratio than the US, which must make things easier.
The big beef joint at the wedding-reception buffet was so good that I asked one of the caterers what they'd done to make it taste that good. "This is New Zealand", he said, with a sympathetic grin, "it just comes that way here."
Peter
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#189876 - 19/11/2003 11:38
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I only bring this up because it absolutely amazes me how much food is wasted (or at least unnecessary) when I go out to eat. We almost never waste food when we eat at home, and I hate paying for food that I don’t eat, especially when I know people are starving in other countries (I can hear my mother saying it right now). Many times I overeat when I go out because I loathe paying for stuff I don’t use. How about the marvelous invention called the doggie bag? If you can truly deal with portions 1/3 or 1/2 the size, that says to me that if you brought the excess home with you, you could have leftovers the next night, or at least for lunch the next day. The way I see it, when I go out to Outback Steakhouse or TGI Fridays, I expect to take something home. If people actually throw out 2/3 or 1/2 of their meal, then I don't blame the restaurant, I blame the customer for not being sensible enough to bring the food home.
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#189877 - 19/11/2003 11:44
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Does everyone eat more than I do, or are they simply trying to overfeed us? We've met before, so I know what you look like. Our proportions are MUCH different. There is a reason. I eat like a slob and always clean my plate. You probably eat like a human was designed to.
Whatever. It's all good. 
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#189878 - 19/11/2003 11:49
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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How about the marvelous invention called the doggie bag? Yeah, but a lot of restaurant stuff doesn’t reheat well at all. Ever try reheating an alfredo sauce? Yuck, you get oil everywhere. I’d rather the restaurant simply give me a reasonable portion to begin with.
As for Outback, they actually get points in my book for the “Outback Special” which is an extremely reasonably priced steak that really isn’t too big. Half the time I finish it at the restaurant. The rest of the time I do, in fact, take it home and reheat it. But most of the time I feel restaurant food just isn’t that good reheated.
If people actually throw out 2/3 or 1/2 of their meal, then I don't blame the restaurant, I blame the customer for not being sensible enough to bring the food home. Well I blame the restaurant. Why not offer me something in a portion I want to eat? Why force me to buy more than I wanted in the first place? If I want to get a better bargain and take stuff home, then give me the option, but don’t assume that’s what I want.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#189879 - 19/11/2003 11:50
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Why not offer me something in a portion I want to eat? It's called the Happy Meal.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#189880 - 19/11/2003 12:01
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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It's called the Happy Meal. True enough! McDonalds and other fast food "restaurants" don't bother me with their portion sizes. They do a better job than anyone of allowing you do order rational portions of food. They have a completely different issue!
Edited by FerretBoy (19/11/2003 12:02)
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#189881 - 19/11/2003 12:04
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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They do a better job than anyone of allowing you do order rational portions of food. While simultaneously asking if you want to super-size it for fifty cents more. Argh.
At every fast food restaurant, I have to be extra-clear with the person behind the counter... "No, just the sandwich. No, I do NOT want the combo meal with the fries. No, I do not want the large coke for ten cents more..."
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#189882 - 19/11/2003 12:34
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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No, I do not want the large coke for ten cents more I have the opposite problem with one fast food joint I go to (Bojangles'). I have to specifically request light ice. If I don't, they basically fill up the cup with ice, then put soda in it, which means you get about three drams worth of beverage. And they used to charge, albeit less than full price, for refills.
Otherwise, I agree with pretty much everything else in this thread. Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#189883 - 19/11/2003 12:34
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: robricc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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There is a reason. I eat like a slob and always clean my plate.
Agreed. If the restaurant feeds me like I am a 80 pound anorexic supermodel I'm not going back. Of course there is nothing wrong with restaurants that offer regular human meals as well as larger portioned options.
-Mike
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#189884 - 19/11/2003 12:37
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: mcomb]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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restaurants that offer regular human meals
ive heard the inner thigh is very tender
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#189885 - 19/11/2003 12:54
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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ive heard the inner thigh is very tender ... and tastes like chicken...
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#189886 - 19/11/2003 12:56
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
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Why do all of the restaurants I frequent always offer such large portions?
Because you're in Texas, Bubba...
_________________________
Dave Clark
Georgetown, Texas
MK2A 42Gb - AnoFace - Smoke Lens - Dead Tuner - Sirius Radio on AUX
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#189887 - 19/11/2003 13:21
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: davec]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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Because you're in Texas, Bubba...
Like here
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#189888 - 19/11/2003 14:00
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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You know, my girlfriend and I were in Tokyo in July. All the restaurants we went to were able to do something that most people (from America) will tell you isn't possible to do:
They gave us just the right amount of food to take us from the state of being "hungry" to the state of being "not hungry".
There was no food left over. There was no need to ask for more. Like Goldilocks said, it was "just right".
If most of my fellow Americans are content to be tricked into satisfaction ("What a great deal! Huge portions!") by paying for too much food, they can have at it. I myself never thought "Gee, this is way too much food for me. Thank GOD for this great restaurant!". I also don't weigh twice what I should, because I know that the point of eating is to stop being hungry, not to "clean my plate" or "get what I pay for".
That being said, I think the food industry in general is too complicated a subject to simplify down to "All the big corporations are bad and the little guys would be better". I agree that assembly-line beef is a disturbing thought, but I have a brother-in-law who grew up on a family farm; his view on animals is far more disturbing in the long run.....
I think we just need to have the scientists stop worrying about what's gonna happen 8,127,878,256 years from now and start perfecting the "artificial meat" process.
Then we can have PETA bitching about the fact that nobody has anywhere to put all the animals we aren't killing and eating.
_________________________
Dave
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#189889 - 19/11/2003 22:40
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: webroach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Reminds me of this onion clip.
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#189890 - 20/11/2003 03:05
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: webroach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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start perfecting the "artificial meat" process
The problem with this is that they'll just make something protein-filled and nutritious, like Tofu or something.
And I'm not eating it unless they can make it the same taste and texture as a good steak.
_________________________
-- roger
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#189891 - 20/11/2003 03:37
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: wfaulk]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/12/2000
Posts: 342
Loc: South-West-Germany
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you usually get refills with all beverages? I thought that would only be on coffee...
We have refills only at McDonalds and Burger King, and only for coffee on breakfast.
cheers, Thomas
_________________________
cheers, Thomas
new owner of the MK1 00123
MK2 12GB 090000815 (my first one)
MK2a 040103735 (from 303) and ???
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#189892 - 20/11/2003 07:50
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: Roger]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Soylent green is PEOPLE!
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#189893 - 20/11/2003 10:11
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: speedy67]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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you usually get refills with all beverages? The vast majority of restaurants around here, from fast food to fine dining, offer free refills on sodas, coffee, and tea. Not on juices or ades (when they have them) or alcoholic beverages.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#189894 - 20/11/2003 11:01
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
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nor alcoholic beverages.
Ummm... Beer.
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#189895 - 21/11/2003 02:11
Re: The Meatrix
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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And I'm not eating it unless they can make it the same taste and texture as a good steak.
Aside from the fact that I happen to have an almost fetish-like love for tofu, I agree with you. But, I have to give my standard response to this;
Given the retardation the American government has been shown to be capable of (*cough* DMCA *cough*), I fear when the time comes it won't be a matter of us choosing to eat it....
<frighteningly believeable headline> Real Meat Illegal! America Thrillled To Grill Krill So Cows Don't Get Killed.. </frighteningly believeable headline>
Ok, maybe it's a bit long to be totally believeable, but....
_________________________
Dave
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#189896 - 21/11/2003 19:19
The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: djc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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In the "mocking PETA" corner, we had a recent hepatitis A scare at a Chi-Chi's. The recent turns indicate a tainted batch of green onions was the culprit. There have been the predictable food safety stories in the media.
So one of the local sheep wrote a letter to the editor today about how meat is dangerous.
Color me entirely not shocked that they take another catastrophe and pervert it to beat the drum for their cause.
I wonder if PETA will become an organization worthy of respect in my lifetime.
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#189897 - 21/11/2003 19:37
Re: The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Eh. I guess that's unfair of me. Not all PETA members are sheep, any more than all meat eaters are. And I don't particularly hate them for it above my base level of hatred for humanity, either.
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#189898 - 24/11/2003 10:54
Re: The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: Daria]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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... above my base level of hatred for humanity.... LOL
_________________________
-- DLF
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#189899 - 24/11/2003 23:39
Re: The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: Daria]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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I don't hate PETA specifically. Nor do I hate vegetarians (though I have been known to mention that "salad is what food eats").
However, if you look at evolution (and general zoology) you'll find that vegetarian animals all have enormous "guts" compared to meat-eaters; they need it to be able to digest all the plant matter. By eating meat (as a species) we were able to make a trade: lose the big gut, freeing up the energy for a....
That's right folks, a BIG BRAIN.
Just think; a few more generations of "grazers" and who knows what they'll look like.
<shrug> Hey, I didn't make the rule, I just eat meat to stay on the predator side of it... </shrug>
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Dave
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#189900 - 25/11/2003 17:34
Re: The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: webroach]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Great! Now the PETA people will start throwing bloody HUMAN BRAINS at us as we exit McDonalds....
_________________________
-- DLF
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#189901 - 26/11/2003 01:49
Re: The joke that is PETA (was Re: The Meatrix)
[Re: DLF]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Great! Now the PETA people will start throwing bloody HUMAN BRAINS at us as we exit McDonalds....
<HOMER VOICE> Mmmmm, brains...... </HOMER VIOCE>
_________________________
Dave
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