Hi,

I got no one to make a new logo for my small company, so I did it myself... Would you please give me your opinion on this logo and if it tells something to you, what?

Rolf

I'm not a designer, but I worked for years with them ... Of course this is all just personal preference, so take it with a grain of salt:

My first impression is that ultradetailed globe is going to turn into mush when you shrink it down to put it on a business card -- always best to keep it simple, second is I think http://www.scifi.com/ , third I think using a typewriter font for high tech services maybe isn't the best connotation ... Something like a Futura is always popular with the kids these days

Ah, the good ol' swoosh logos. No offense, but if i see another logo with a swoosh in it i'm going to go postal!

and i agree about the simplicity and the font. Use something more bold or unique.

Thank you very much for your answers and links.
Especially one sentence from TheStreet.com is one point I had in mind creating the logo:

the reason so many Net companies fall back on the swoosh is that it is so hard to represent the Internet graphically. "There's nothing to grab onto. There's nothing there. It's space," she says

In fact it's hard for an Internet company to describe the Internet in a logo. Beside of this, I wanted to represent wireless communications (WLAN + Bluetooth), in general radio transmission or data connections via radio waves.
At third, but not least, I want to represent programming, especially PHP, but that's too deep, I think.

I was shocked to see so many swooshes on so many logos. I realized that I'm not the first one to have this idea... The much detailed globe is in fact a problem, especially printed out or faxed.

The courier font I used is a font which exists for a long time, so my company does (10 years). I've searched for an easy to read font and something not too space-invaders like. It should be reputable, not so colourful. I mostly wear black or grey suits, even they aren't colourful.

It's hard to find something that suits my needs, I think.

Rolf

At least the swoosh looks nicer than Lucent's "'brown ring of quality" logo. Can anybody tell me who said that?

[edit]Umm. Corrected quote...[/edit]

It was based on a Dilbert cartoon...

Yup. I always think about to that strip when I see the lucent logo. A few other places have similar logos actually. Dreamcast was one of them. A blue swirly thing. Nice and simple though I guess.

For those who may not have seen it...

The Lucent logo...



The Dilbert cartoon...

I agree that the globe is far too detailed and will reproduce poorly at small sizes and even more poorly at small sizes on the web. Simplify it down to just a globe, leving the grid lines on it so that it is clear it is a globe and not a solid circle.

Courier is not a good typeface to use for a logo. Every time you send something to print, you'll get a call from the repro guys who think you've forgotten to include a font with your job.

I'd recommend a sans-serif face like Frutiger, Univers and so on. Avoid any of the standard Windows set, anything too stylised (nothing too thick, thin, compressed or expanded). Go for something with clean lines and don't be afraid to use alignment rather than space the 'IT services' tagline across the full width.

Again, these are personal opinions, but I am speaking as a (former) professional typesetter and jobbing designer and I'm really just repeating the basic rules I learned in that trade.

Don't forget, Lucent called their logo "The red ring of innovation".

The globe is widely overused as well. I don't have to list links for that one, they're all over the place.

Oh, and this might be good to read over. There are a lot of logos to look at for ideas and information here too.

Wow, I didn't notice that it's not the empeg forum here but the forum of logo-designers :-). Honest, I see many very creative postings and very interesting links. Thanks a lot for this.
I've learned a lot.

- A logo should be simple
- Give it a unique look
- Don't use old fonts (like my courier in the example, but why does Microsoft in ".net"?)
- Bring in your imagination of your company. If it's a computer/internet company, be a bit spacey..

Now I think it's even harder to build my new logo. I'm totally confused. So much information means so much to deal with, so much to take care of. Why is it so hard?

Rolf

In reply to:

---

like my courier in the example, but why does Microsoft in ".net"?

---

http://www.microsoft.com/net/images/banner.gif

.net isn't Courier ... it /appears/ to be a modified Arial. The "." is not arial, it actually looks like the Courier New period in bold; but then, that's just a black circle, so it could be anything , and the bottom of the t is elongated (and obviously the n and e are connected). But other than that I think it is based on Arial.

As far as realizing it's hard to do a logo, you're definitely right ... I was always most impressed with good logos and good icons moreso than most other types of graphic design, because it is really hard to fit so much meaning in a simple symbol. I always like the subtle things -- like in the FedEx logo, the negative space of the E and x makes an arrow -- Just kind of cool. Graphic design is such a different mindset than programming. It was really cool working with those guys because I look at things in a completely different way now.

ms

Just do what I did at www.clonetech.co.uk

Its far easier!

like in the FedEx logo, the negative space of the E and x makes an arrow

Jesus... I've never noticed that, and I even watched "Cast Away" a couple of weeks ago!

Actually... seeing things in white space is apparently one of the signs of schizophrenia.

Gareth

I never noticed either. In fact, I had to go check it out to be sure.

Yeah I never saw this .. My designer friend pointed it out -- he worked at the company that did their logo. And actually, if anyone was insane, it was this guy, so that makes some sense

ms

The logo and subsequent cartoon were, in fact, the highlights of my Lucent-branded career! Toward the end there, we came to call it the "inflamed [censored] of leadership," but that's when we all thought former CEO Rich McGinn was going to be doing hard time in prison as Guido's bitch. Never happened

x3 on the FedEx thing

The Lucent logo looks like something the Goatse guy made by sitting on a piece of tissue paper...

I think my favorite simple logo is the one for H&R Block. It's a freakin' block! How much simpler can you get than a green square?

One thing that might be an idea, if you do any computer graphics, is to try some self-limiting. Maybe try drawing something with an icon creation program. I only say this because creating your own icons is quite challenging for similar reasons. You want something that doesn't look like other icons, something personal. But you also have to worry about that icon being shrunk in the Quicklaunch bar, or the top-left corner of the window that opens, and it has to be just as recognizable when smaller (like yours on a business card).

I don't know, just a thought. I stink at making icons

Aw man. Did you have to bring up the goatse guy?!?

Yes, it's hard, but I will reach my goal, sooner or later :-).
I sit in front of the FedEx-Logo. Hmm, what does it tell me?



Ok, english is not my motherlanguage, but e.g. for FatEx I would know clearly what they want to do :-). But FedEx doesn't talk to me. Because of the different color I see two words instead of one, but where is the arrow or do I sit in front of the wrong logo? Nevertheless, the FedEx logo is simple and clearly readable, that is an important fact.

And to the .net: Yes, I'm convinced that they didn't use just courier.

Rolf

Where the E and the x connect (in the Ex of FedEx), the white space creates an arrow pointing to the right ...

FedEx is short for Federal Express. Sometime a few years ago, they shortened their name to what everyone called them anyway. Of course, now they have a service called FedEx Express, which makes very little sense.

Sometime a few years ago, they shortened their name to what everyone called them anyway.

Heh, sort of like "KFC".

I remember when that one happened, Dennis Miller was the SNL news guy. His take on it was "Come on, guys. It's chicken parts for God's sake. It's not that cool."

Oh, now I can see the arrow between the E and the x, but I think you have to know it to see it :-).

Rolf

the white space creates an arrow pointing to the right

Hmmph.... I wonder how much that arrow cost? I never noticed that before.

Yeah -- I agree it's very subtle .. but now that you see it, you'll never be able to stop seeing it

New day, new start. I'm going to pay a logomaker for helping me to create a logo. He warmed up knowing my preferences and gave me this:



I told him I'd like a circuit board (bottom left) or connections from one point to another (bottom right) to describe what I do. Ok, it's only a try for describing, but it's a start.

All the 6 logos show the name in clear typed letters. This is important for me. People should know where they have to go in case of contact.

But I don't know if I did it right with lower- and uppercase with "IT-Services". Is this ok? Or is "IT services" the correct one? Or should i do the whole thing in uppercase to prevent any problem with this?

Heaven, I wish I get my logo before going bankrupt :-).

Any comments if this is the right way with these logos?

Rolf

Go for 'IT Services'. The hyphen looks awkward and is unnecessary. Go for caps only if it suits the design.

My favourite is the top-right design, but IT SERVICES needs to be in a heavier face and with a little more spacing around it and the grey panel.

The drop-shadow on that logo looks good for a web page and on a white background reduces the sharp contrast between the blue type and the white background, making the image look less jaggy.

When it come to print, only keep that drop shadow if you're doing full colour printing at a high line screen (175lpi, ideally 200lpi) if you're doing cheaply-printed leaflets, newspaper ads, or laser print, get rid of it as it will just make it look blurry.

I agree -- the one in the top right, but with 'IT Services', instead. Bottom left is right out -- I think that gives the impression that you're doing electronics, rather than networky type stuff. My second favourite is the bottom right. I think it's a good idea, and could be improved by taking the 'IT Services' line from the one in the top right (the logo feels unbalanced the way it is now), and by reducing the complexity of the top graphic a little bit (I have a feeling that it would reduce to a smudge of grey). Don't forget, you can have different logos for different applications, so long as there is enough of a consistency between them that they are all recognizably the same company.

Oh, and like that email I just now received told me: Out of ideas? Viagra can inspire you!

Ok, this is my favourite, too. I watched the logos and tipped on the top right. But some seconds later I thought it was too simple.
I tested all the logos and pulled them through my fax. As to be expected the simple logos are faxable, the others went to undefined scribblings.

here you can see the faxed logos.

I love the bottom right, but it's definitely unusable for faxing. Printed out from my printer it looks good. Very good.
As canuckInLA told, it's possible to use more than one logo.
In this case I propably may combine the top right and the botttom right.

Again, thank you a lot for giving me so much response!

Rolf

the FedEx logo, the negative space of the E and x makes an arrow

I just noticed it after you pointed it out and I used to work for them!

Some time ago I started this thread but since today I haven't got a logo. Didn't expect it so hard for me. As I created an icon I thought about this logo thing. Reading these postings I thought many times of "simple", "easy to read" and so on. Obviously the least thing is "design". Is it? Why is design so unimportant? So what, I thought of making a logo just by making the icon bigger...



What do you say, is it the right way?

regards,
Rolf

The link to your logo is broken...

Reading these postings I thought many times of "simple", "easy to read" and so on. Obviously the least thing is "design". Is it? Why is design so unimportant?

The word 'design' hasn't been mentioned much because making something simple and easy to understand is design. Graphic design is about communication. There's no point designing something that people don't understand, however pretty it looks.

Hell, that's my career out' the window: I've spent 40 years on the premise that if people understand what I'm doing, they'll figure that they can do it for less themselves! That's the whole premise that any profession operates under: Accountants, Lawyers and....IT people.

No, second thoughts, you're right, it's just that people don't understand the value in what you say...any more in wording than design.

Maybe, I'm just having a bad day poring over a 60+ page consultation document that Whitehall have asked me to comment on the voracity of, hereineafter and therefortoo, whereinafter and whatthehell....

document that Whitehall have asked me to comment on the voracity of

What? They're concerned that this document is going to eat everything it sees?

>The link to your logo is broken...

Is there any? The jpg is at http://www.rowi.net/icon.jpg

Rolf

Correct, that link does not work.



Unless you've decided that a little red X is your logo.

What ever is at that URL isn't a JPEG. I downloaded it and it doesn't have the JPEG header. File thinks it's just data.

Shows up for me.

% file icon.jpg
icon.jpg: ms-windows icon resource - 1 icon

Hmm. magic must be out of date.

I meant to say that the image shows up for me (Mozilla 1.5 Sparc Solaris), and to add that I also get usable results from my magic file.

I displays in Firefox on Windows, but oddly if you right click on the image it says its alternate text is "The image “http://www.rowi.net/icon.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors."

Ah, mystery solved...

It is actually a Windows icon file, not a jpeg. If you save the file and change the extension to .ico Windows recognises it and displays it.

Mozilla/Firefox must be ignoring the file type information and examining the file itself to work out its type.

Some time ago I started this thread but since today I haven't got a logo.

I don't know if you'll like this one, I just kinda threw it together. But, I feel bad that you still don't have a logo.

Here's another with a totally different approach - since a Rowi is also a kind of Kiwi Bird... It's kind of reminiscent of the O'reilly books. Hey, what can I say. I'm bored.

And flip-floped. I like this one more...

And without a shadow. I couldn't get the right angles for the shadow anyway.

Why is the Earth illuminated by two Sun's?

Easy things first:

>Why is the Earth illuminated by two Sun's?

Because I should do things I'm able to do ;-). Never let a networker do graphical things. And this is the fact why I don't have a logo yet...

>Icon or jpeg?
Well, my Firefox doesn't like to open *.ico, just renamed it to a jpeg and thought nobody would care :-). But anyway, even in the screenshot of tfabris you'll see this logo as an icon between Address and the URL... ;-)


trs24:
Isn't THAT cool? Wow! I've heard of a rowi bird as I googled around. But I didn't connect it to a logo. This has nothing to do with networking but with rowi, maybe one more reason to go into this direction.
I'd like to get the word rowi connected to the url rowi.net, so is it possible to attach the .net (however) ?
Just printed it out to see what happens with the bird. Hmm, I expected less because of the fine structure of it (my bad printer is a good surce for testing ;-)). I have to play aound with the bird ;-) to see if it's printable. Would this be free for using or do I have to buy the rowibird from a pet shop?

Thank you very much for so much attention on my posting. I never expected so much care.

regards,
Rolf

It is actually a Windows icon file, not a jpeg.

As previously established:

% file icon.jpg
icon.jpg: ms-windows icon resource - 1 icon

is it possible to attach the .net (however) ?

Sure! See attached. I thought the .net actually got in the way of your message. The reason I didn't attach it is because of a few reasons you might want to keep in mind:

1) A domain name and company name are not necessarily the same thing.
2) Are you Rowi or are you Rowi.net?
3) A domain name can always be placed elsewhere on print items. A logo doesn't have to do everything for you.
4) I worked for dot com's and I resent them.

Just things to keep in mind - except for #4 of course.

Would this be free for using

Sure, I made it. Consider that kiwi royalty free!

I have to play aound with the bird ;-) to see if it's printable.

I didn't bother to make the Rowi at a printable dpi. So... It's not going to look that great printed unless it is shrunk down pretty far. Otherwise, it's going to be pretty fuzzy.

Cool.

1) In this case it is ;-). The name is rowi.net it-services (even if it services may be better for the USA than it-services, but for german purposes it's better with the "-" )

2) rowi.net, even if the people call me rowi, my company is called rowi.net. Having the whole domain in the name should be easier to remind...

3) Sure, but isn't it nice to have everything embedded?

4) Sorry, I'm just a german, had to translate but couldn't catch this sentence right... :-(

Is the rowi bird popular? I'm quite sure I'm the only german who knows it... How did you knew about it?

I really consider letting this rowi bird be my companion. Even the german translation of "having a bird" means something like "you are crazy", but anyway, maybe this hits the point ;-).

Rolf

4) Sorry, I'm just a german, had to translate but couldn't catch this sentence right... :-(

4) I worked for dot com's and I resent them.

He means that he really, really, REALLY dislikes the dot coms.(and he has worked for them)

3) Sure, but isn't it nice to have everything embedded?

If the domain is your brand, then yes. I have worked for quite a few companies in the past, though, that could not understand that a brand and a domain name are not the same thing. In your case, however, it is.

4) Sorry, I'm just a german, had to translate but couldn't catch this sentence right...

Archeon pretty much summed it up. I have worked for dotcoms in the past (as in companies with ".com" tacked to the end of the name). My last experience of working for a dotcom was being escorted out of the building with the rest of the staff by the local Sheriff. After all, all dotcomers were criminals, right?

Is the rowi bird popular? I'm quite sure I'm the only german who knows it... How did you knew about it?

I imagine only in New Zealand. I only knew about it because of a past discussion with an ornithologist friend of mine.

Anyway, feel free to do what you like with that logo. I'm pleased that you like it. If at the very least, you can use it for a launching pad for other logo ideas.

tfabris, how is MyIE2 working out for you?

Quite well, actually. Better than firefox was. I still have some minor quibbles with it, but not as many quibbles as I do with IE or Firefox. Still undecided if it will remain my primary browser, but it's doing well so far.

>After all, all dotcomers were criminals, right?

Yes :-). Nobody get's money today by doing real work, isn't it? ;-)

I'm so happy having rowi.net instead of rowi.com, so I'm out of focus ;-). Nobody told me that dotcom stands for any domain else than .com :-).

The logo is so impressive to me that I will use it, so thank you again! One problem could be if I put in onto a big big banner. Resizing it to very big sizes may kill the bird. Do you see an option for this? Can you tell me how one could create this rowi bird in a big size? Surely it isn't possible to put the bird in a vector format, because it is too fine structured. The letters may be a standard font, so this should be no problem.

Yes, I know, I'm asking much and maybe I pull your nerves but I don't want other logos for the rest of my life. This is it...



Rolf

Yes, I know, I'm asking much and maybe I pull your nerves...

Actually, vectorizing it and increasing it's resolution wouldn't be all that difficult. I can't guarantee that I'll get to it right away, but I'll get it to you soon. Once I have it done I'll send you the original png's so you can do with it what you wish.

Keep in mind, once I vectorize it, the kiwi will lose some of it's detail, but I'll try to keep the detail in there as much as possible.

...but I don't want other logos for the rest of my life.

I'm flattered! If only I had the same affect on women.

Actually, no, since maybe 20 hours, my nerves are playing with me. A quite new server crashed and the company looks at me because they aren't able to work any more. It's a very big pressure and I was _really_ down. As I read your posting I couldn't suppress a tear. Sorry for this emotional sentence but it's true. No good news since 20 hours and so my excursion into the internet (pause for 5 minutes at the empeg-bbs to calm down) got me back to life.

I don't know how I can thank you. Surely, you'll have a place in my writings about finding a new logo and the 10th birthday this year of my company (btw: is company the right name for a one man show with an optional second man?)

Now I should better turn off the slow music (which makes me emotional again - what an influence) and be happy of the logo and restart my smiling.exe that I thought to be lost :-)

Thank you,
Rolf

i get such joy in reading your posts. because english is not your first language you seem to have a strange amount of innocence about your speaking. i wish i could speak like that.

thank you

I think it's just the picture of the little kid.

>because english is not your first language

Indeed, I cannot hide that I'm german. But I hope, most is understandable. I learned english in school but that was just enough for "Peter has a ball" and so on ;-). Most I got by talking to other people who are as bad in english as I am. Maybe I even try to translate the german structure to the english one. I'd like to know how _you_ would write german. Ok, it is much more difficult. ..

Rolf

Ich spreche nur ein bisschen Deutsch und mein vocabeln is sehr klein, aber ich denke das es ist nicht schwieriger als Englisch.

I'd like to know how _you_ would write german.

Withoutenanyspacenbetweenwordsen?

Seriously, your English is perfectly understandable, even if it is a little odd at times.

>Ich spreche nur ein bisschen Deutsch und mein vocabeln is sehr klein, aber ich denke das es ist nicht schwieriger als Englisch.

Not bad! I'm surprised...

>Seriously, your English is perfectly understandable, even if it is a little odd at times.

Really? Wow. Maybe you'll find my german a little odd, too :-).

I like the Off-Topic board much... It gives me so much interesting things, so many different people from different countries with different thoughts. Very very interesting.

Rolf

Honestly, I had to look up "denken" and "schwierig", though the grammar is all mine.

Oh, many people do have problems with thes words, even in their own language ;-).

For the others:
denken = to think
schwierig = hard

It' hard to think, well that's it :-). Denken ist schwierig.

Could it be that this thread covers nearly everything? Back to the roots: I'm surprised that noone posted "too much detailed" for the bird. But even if it was so, I've learned I have to decide myself. The new logo touched my soul (maybe no english speakting man had ever tried such a sentence) and for that I did tell the truth, this is it and if trs will make it happen and I get the vectorized logo, everything will be fine. He said, it could be less detailed but this is fine. I'm really sure he will do his best and therefore I'm happy with it.

I've seen, trs is one of the people who has written into our wedding-book at http://www.winterscheidt.org. So just a sentence in this thread (it won't get more off topic than it is). We are married nearly a year and are happy since the first days. I never thought that such a harmony could exist. So everything's fine.

BTW: I just have seen that this thread is read much more than 1000 times. Wow.

Rolf