OK, my karma has just been dropped off, before messing with it I decided to look through the docs.

The Warranty is for the UK and states it is only for 90 days !!! If that is the case then it's going back ASAP. I thought that all warrantys in the UK were for at least 12 months !!!

Also there are no UK phone numbers to contact support !!!

[rant] And the PSU has a 90 degree termination to the dock on it which looks very messy as you can't tuck it out of the way as the USB/RCA jacks are in the way !!! [/rant]

On the positive side the packaging is good (just a black cardboard box) which means I can sent it back to amazon really easy. and it feels much much better than the model we saw at the Euro meet last year.

Cheers

Cris.

By law, all such products must carry a one year warranty if bought in the UK. If it breaks in that time you contact Amazon, not Rio, so lack of contact info shouldn't matter.

Strange. I thought the consumer protection laws made it mandatory that we get a 12 month minimum warranty for items sold in the UK as well. Is it definately a UK warranty you've got? Bit strange it's got no UK number as well.

Yep deff. a UK warranty...



I have to admit the first impression is a mixed bag, the interface is amazing, it feels really good, looks really good. But it sucks too !!! Like when it locks my whole machine when I plug in the USB (un freezes when I pull it out ???) I have to do a reboot with the Karma plugged in gor it to work !!!

Cheers

Cris.

Isn't there a difference between Amazon's warranty and Rio's? Amazon have to give you the full year.

Does it lock even after the firmware upgrade?

I couldn't even do the firmware upgrade to start with !!!

I've moved it to the USB ports on the back and it seems to be OK, but half of the transfers I do fail !!! I use EAC and lame to do all my encoding at 192VBR, I think I'll try a few new rips with Ogg later.

I have e-mailed Amazon to clear up the situation, I'm sure UK law says "a reasonable time" not 12 months, its up to Rio to offer a longer warranty, I'm going to go and do some research on that now.

I have made my mind up though, if it is only for 90 days and I have to send it to an American address it's going back to amazon.co.uk and I'll get an import, why should I have to pay so much more and get nothing in return !!!

Having said that, if it is a 12 month warrany from Amazon I'll keep it, I like it, I'm sure all the kinks will be ironed out in future firmware upgrades.

I have given up on the idea of using my Senn HD590 the karma can't drive them AT ALL, they sounds really really bad, my Sony 71's sound as good as anything else I have got, so it looks like I'm in the market for some new headphones too, any ideas what work well with the Karma ???

Cheers

Cris.

The manufacturers warranty and the retailers legal obligations are completely separate. That 90 day warranty from DNNA is in addition to your normal statutory legal rights under the Sale of Goods Act.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/unsatisfactory.htm

This is all very interesting, I just rung my local trading standards who explained the whole thing to me. Basically the limit for claims is 6 years from the date of purchase. I would have to put the case to Amazon.co.uk that the Karma has gone faulty within "a reasonable time" for the type of product I have bought. Personally I would say 3 years is a "reasonable time" for a £280 mp3 player to last. I am still going to wait for Amazon's responce before using the unit any further.

The 12 month thing is just a myth. Although I do wonder why DNNA don't backup their product with a "more reasonable" warranty, they must not have much faith in it as a product.

Cheers

Cris.

This is *wrong* - the UK warranty is 12 months. I have this in writing from Clive Hudson, Managing Director of Rio Europe. He asked me to post that information to Riovolution on Friday.

I'll bring the incorrect documentation to his attention immediately.

The UK support number and email address can be found at our web site:

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/rio/contacts.asp

Rob

any ideas what work well with the Karma

I have Sennheiser HD25's (£100 from djstore.co.uk) and they sound fantastic. Because they're from the pro range you can also get replacement cables/pads/plastics/transducers.

Rob

"DNNA is not responsible for products received without a warranty service authorization and may be rejected"? I'm not surprised we "may be rejected" with grammar like that on our legal documents

Peter

Cheers Rob Thats made me much happier

You may want to look at putting the Euro contact details in the box, and get that warranty card changed, I almost packed it up an sent it all back!

I never expected it to drive my HD590's but I think I'll go headphone shopping this weekend.

I love this little thing already. You've taken all the good bits or the Riot, cut out the bad bits and replaced it all in a neat package. I like it, I like it allot.

What about the PSU, is it supposed to have a 90 degree tip on it ??? It looks very messy! Are they all like this ???

Cheers

Cris.

Greetings!

The US tips are straight. I am surprised about the angled tips for the UK - different power supplies I suppose.

As to driving headphones, I can drive my Grado RS2 without any problem at all. What kind of problems were you hearing - distortion? not enough volume? noise? Just curious.

They were way too quiet and sounded washed out, even at full volume. I usually listen to them plugged straight in to the output of my Creative Audigy 2, so maybe I used to them being over driven ??? I would never use the HD590 when I'm out and about they are way too bulky, I thinking of trying out the Bose Triports, anybody tried these before ?

I'm surprised really, I'm mean most reviews say the Karma is really loud, I have to run my Sony in-ear's at about 26, there is a distinct lack of bass too, just gotta get used to the EQ I guess...

mmm hang on just re-ripped Sister Hazel - Chasing Daylight in Ogg from RMM and it sounds much better !!!

I think all I need is a bit of time with it

Cheers

Cris.

That's kind of what surprises me. I am wondering if you have a hardware fault or something. The Karma is the loudest portable I have ever dealt with. You might want to double-check all of your audio settings (EQ, auto gain and stereo separation come immediately to mind).

I've moved it to the USB ports on the back and it seems to be OK, but half of the transfers I do fail !!!

It shouldn't do that... Now that you've got the USB mostly working, please make sure to upgrade to the latest Rio Music Manager as well as the latest Karma firmware. See if that takes care of it. If you continue to have trouble, start a new thread specifically on the topic and we'll work through it to find a solution.

EQ is flat and everything also is off. It surprised me alittle too. Maybe I'm just a little Mutton Jeff (Deaf)

I'm just listening with my HD590's again, there is almost no bass ??? Even with the EQ turned right up and on 28, loads with the Sony's. I have to admit I don't think I ever used them on my Riot (may it rest in pieces) so maybe I'm expecting too much of it.

Never mind, it gives me a good excuse to bug the hell out of all the Hi-fi shops in Leeds this weekend

Cheers

Cris.

Cheers Tony

I plan to upload allot more later on, so I will start a thread if I run into problems. 1.41 loaded fine (it came with 1.25 BTW) and I have just put a few albums on with no problems (Wow USB2 is fast )

Fingers crossed.

Cris.

Hmm... Well, turning the EQ up is not a good thing. Just like with the empeg, (correct me if I am wrong, oh folks that know better!) the best approach is to subtract off the maximum level. You might be overdriving it on those frequencies and that would make the sound distorted.

I was thinking about this the other day. What would be cool is if, instead of turning one of the bands up past the top, it just turned _all_ of the others down, so you'd get the same effect.

...or am I insane?

I was thinking about this the other day. What would be cool is if, instead of turning one of the bands up past the top, it just turned _all_ of the others down, so you'd get the same effect.

Actually, I believe that the Karma does this very thing, or at least something like it. It's a mass-market product, so the last thing they want is for people to complain about distortion.

or at least something like it.

Actually in the UI, though?

<grabs Karma from dock, tries it>

Nope. Never mind.

No, not in the UI. I mean behind the scenes.

There are different ways you could do this. Let's start with the premise that someone has taken and cranked the lowest bass frequency to the max, and then cranked the volume to 30. This would normally clip the DSP.

One way to do it would be to leave the EQ as the user set it, and simply lower the output gain of the DSP overall to prevent clipping. I'll bet that's what it does, or something like it.

Another way would be as you suggest, lower the other bands. Except that wouldn't work because each band is a curve, there is not a straight line between the bands. Lowering all the bands would mean the EQ curve would look like a wavy sea instead of a flat line with the one band peaking.

Plus, the EQ has the ability to be parametric, so lowering the other bands might do nothing, or they do too much.

The only reason I'm assuming the Karma even does this is because I remember a bugfix item on the list during the alpha phase saying something like "Prevent clipping when EQ setting maxed". I have no idea how this was implemented, I'm just guessing.

Well it must do something cleaver, cos mine doesn't clip at full Bass and 30 volume

Cheers

Cris.

Except that wouldn't work because each band is a curve

Ah, yeah. I forgot that. Doh!

They were way too quiet and sounded washed out, even at full volume. I usually listen to them plugged straight in to the output of my Creative Audigy 2, so maybe I used to them being over driven ???

Isn't the volume of the European Karma capped because of a European law that forbids portable audio devices to output a larger volume than xx dB's ? (don't know the exact number)
I believe it is, and this may explain why a European Karma sounds a lot more quiet than an American model.

I think it may be just me. I'm so used to my HD590's sounding a certain way. They are couple of years old, do headphones change over time (ie become harder to drive) I know they took a while to bed in, but maybe I need a new pair

I seem to be settling in with the Karma abit, I have had some time to tweek the EQ to my liking.

I put on the old headphones that came with my Riot, and boy they go loud!!!

Cheers

Cris.

I finally got around to playing with a Karma recently; Is it me or did the lads imitate my bass and treble idea?

The warranty insert will be corrected to include the correct duration and contact details. The right angled adapters are a temporary solution to get Amazon online as quickly as possible (the power adapters were a major contributor to the delay). When we have the adapters we originally specified we'll be happy to swap out your right angled adapter if you want.

Rob

Thanks Rob !!! I'll take you up on that when the time comes

Any chance of getting a new warranty card with the new details on when they are printed, just so I've got one.

I knew there was a very good reason for buying a Rio (apart from it being a great product)

Cheers

Cris.

I've had a reply from Amazon.co.uk that backs up what you said Rob...

In reply to:

---

Dear Customer

Thank you for writing to Amazon.co.uk.

I have checked with the concerned department and according to them,
the warranty will be covered for a year. If Manufacturer doesn't
cover it for a full year then we will deal with any problems that may
occur during the first year.

Thank you for your interest in Amazon.co.uk.

Please let us know if this e-mail answered your question:

---

So thats good to know. Looks like I can send it back to Amazon within the first year.

Should I start a new topic just stating the UK warranty is 12 months as people may get the wrong idea if they were just browsing the topics ???

Cheers

Cris.

It's actually got "12 month Manufacturer's warranty" on the Karma page at Amazon now.