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#206372 - 23/02/2004 13:49 Supra engine rebuild
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
Patrick, Rob S and I spent last week tearing down my Supra 7MGTE engine. The head, block and crank are now with a machine shop requiring differing levels of work (the head is in a bad way, the block isn't too bad and the crank is fine). We found several loose head bolts and a perforated head gasket. There are also indications of oil starvation to the head, probably caused by a knackered oil pump.

Pics online here, for those who appreciate the oily end of a car:

http://community.webshots.com/user/projectsupra

I'll get the final machining quote tomorrow and if all goes well reassembly photos will follow in a few weeks.

Rob

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#206373 - 23/02/2004 14:11 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
cool shots!
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#206374 - 23/02/2004 14:13 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Thanks for posting these pics.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#206375 - 23/02/2004 14:17 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Very neat. Who gets to hose down the digital camera?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#206376 - 23/02/2004 14:32 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Remember: Assembly is the reverse of removal.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#206377 - 23/02/2004 14:48 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: tfabris]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
Cool pictures Rob. It's also nice to see Mr. S back in action, sporting a rather super beard as well!

Was that Patricks garage you did it in?
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#206378 - 23/02/2004 15:07 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: andym]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
We removed the lump in a garage belonging to a friend of Patrick, as he has a full size hydraulic car lift which proved invaluable. We then transported it to Patrick's workshop for cleaning and stripping.

Rob

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#206379 - 23/02/2004 15:32 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
belezeebub
addict

Registered: 11/01/2001
Posts: 579
That is reason number 23 of why I HATE with a Passion boardering on insanity Newer Cars...

Give me a 1970 Suburban anyday of the week, you want to change th e spark plus and its raining just sit on the fender well and close the hood, you don't need 132 speical wrenches and a trained dwarf to work on it and there is no damm spagetti of hoses and wires all over the place.

No computer to generate cryptic error codes you have a rotor a fuel pump and just 1 cam shaft.

and they knew how to make cars back then I put 550000 Miles on my 1979 K-5 Blazer (rebuilt the tranny twice and other then normal wear and tear that was it)

190000 Miles on my 1989 Surburban and I replaced the normall stuff tires, brakes etc and that was it stock engine and stock tranny

1995 Blazer (Biggest POS on the planet) put less then 70k on it and have replaced the alt, timing cover gasket, rack and pinion, ball joints, ac compressor, CPI system, compute, wiper motor, wiper control circute, wiper switch and it still has a electrical malfunction they want to replace the wiring hardness on it.




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______________________________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Network Administrators, for they are subtle and quick to anger. ______________________________________ Worlds Lamest Wb Site (mine) http://home.comcast.net/~jlipchitz/

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#206380 - 23/02/2004 15:36 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
You haven't left patrick alone with your turbo have you.

You know what patrick does to turbos
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#206381 - 23/02/2004 16:03 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: thinfourth2]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
You know what patrick does to turbos

You'll be popping flames out of your exhaust in no time!
_________________________
Cheers,

Andy M

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#206382 - 23/02/2004 18:10 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: thinfourth2]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
You haven't left patrick alone with your turbo have you.

I'll admit it's a risk, but I have left him alone with a matched pair of them! Hopefully I will get a nicely reconditioned turbo out of it, and not a jet turbine engine - I think my turbos are a little small for what he has in mind!

Rob

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#206383 - 23/02/2004 21:41 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
Oh, Man!!

I am like, so jealous and bummed out that I didn't get to be a part of this historic event! Hopefully y'all won't have too many parts leftover come reassembly.

Cheers

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#206384 - 24/02/2004 09:49 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: mlord]
russmeister
enthusiast

Registered: 14/07/2002
Posts: 344
Loc: South Carolina
Hopefully y'all won't have too many parts leftover come reassembly.

Are you really Canadian or is it a cover-up?
_________________________
Russ
---------------------------------------------------------
"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will." Vince Lombardi

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#206385 - 24/02/2004 11:20 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: russmeister]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Southern Canadian maybe?

/Michael
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/Michael

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#206386 - 24/02/2004 11:39 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
For some reason those photos made me think of a Caesarian Section. I think it's seeing all the guts come out and hoping that 'they' know how to put them all back in.
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#206387 - 24/02/2004 11:46 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: genixia]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
how to put them all back in

And this reminds you of a Caesarian section how? Surely the baby's not supposed to be put back?
_________________________
-- roger

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#206388 - 24/02/2004 11:50 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: Roger]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
No the baby isn't, but the guts are...
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#206389 - 24/02/2004 11:52 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: mtempsch]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Southern Canadian maybe?
They have northern Canadians?

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#206390 - 24/02/2004 12:09 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: drakino]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
They have northern Canadians

They are large, furry white things that go "Grrrrrrr" when you meet them.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#206391 - 29/02/2004 06:57 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
So it turned out that the engine is pretty much scrap. The block is serviceable (3 thou warpage) and crank is good, but every piston is a different shape and size, and the head has previously been machined to death. 5 thou warpage on the face, 15 thou on the cam seats. Doh.

I'm now looking for a low mileage jap import lump.

All this so I don't have to reinstall my empeg in yet another car!

Rob

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#206392 - 29/02/2004 09:53 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
That's too bad and to find out after doing all the work of removing the engine. Hopefully you can find a suitable one that isn't in as bad of shape.
_________________________

Matt

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#206393 - 29/02/2004 11:16 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Very sorry to hear that, Rob.

On the bright side, you got to have a fun day (s?) with your friends digging into an engine.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#206394 - 29/02/2004 13:35 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
Time for more boost maybe if rebuilding maybe thicker head gasket so you can really up the boost pressure
_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#206395 - 01/03/2004 06:02 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: thinfourth2]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
The main reason for the strip down was to fit an HKS metal gasket (requires a head and block skim to get a near perfect finish). With one of those the sky's the limit for boost. In practice, though, my motivation is to make a robust engine rather than a particularly fast one - that car's an auto after all!

I ordered a "low mileage" Jap import engine today. There aren't many around and I think I trust the supplier about as far as my car can go without an engine. Crossing fingers and other extremeties!

Rob

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#206396 - 07/03/2004 20:34 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: rob]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Well, we're obviously getting better. It only took two people two days to reduce a finely crafted japanese machine to it's component parts this time, rather than three people three days last time. Possibly it would take one person one day, and with no people it would simply fall to pieces spontaneously

I managed to find a secondhand low-mileage engine via an online parts-search service, and after some humming and hawing Rob bought it and had it delivered to my house. Actually, he phoned and said it was coming in two to three days and that I would get an hour's notice by phone. What really happened, of course, is that the next day at 10AM there was a knock on the door and a large bloke with an even larger truck said "Where do you want it, mate?" This led to some frantic reshuffling of the workshop to find room for a pallet some four feet square and weighing about 600 pounds.

The description was of an imported japanese-spec engine before the first cam-belt change, which set an upper limit of about 60000 miles assuming the supplier was truthful and correct. After a certain amount of struggle involving a borrowed engine hoist and a packet of ginger-nut biscuits, we were able to get the thing onto the engine stand and start investigating it in detail.

There were a few cosmetic blemishes due to the way it had been delicately and carefully removed from the donor car with a hacksaw, but these proved to be of no real import. The first thing we noted is that both engine mounts were almost new, which immediately cheered Rob up as the one that died when we removed the original engine would have cost about £120 to replace.

The date code stamped on the block is more or less exactly what the other engine had, mid-1989, but I'd guess that the engine has been in storage for at least 13 of those 15 years. The thing turned out to be very low mileage indeed, if the condition of the innards is anything to go by. As a rough estimate, I'd say it's got no more than 20000 miles on it.

All the bearing surfaces are only just past the well-run-in stage, the valves after a quick wipe look like they just came out of a box on the shelf, the bores are immaculate, and the oil-ways and water channels in the head appear brand new. There is no sign at all of any blowthrough on the head or inlet and exhaust gaskets, and in fact all the gaskets simple lifted off the various surfaces like they'd been put on the week before.

Actually, dismantling this engine was a little surreal. The Haynes manuals, for instance, always say something like "Next, remove the nine bolts securing the whatsit to the gubbins, and remove the thingy", making it sound so easy a small dim child could do it. They always omit the stage of "Note the thingy will be immovably bonded by sheer neglect to the gubbins and will require a severe beating with a five-pound lump hammer before it comes off, which it will do in at least two pieces".

Not this time. Remove the crank pulley bolt (which admittedly did require an improvised 4-foot extension handle on the socket, that little sod was on TIGHT), and a gentle pull made the thing just slide off in the way they never do. The same story throughout, everything simply came to pieces with no real effort at all. The annoying thing is that we could probably have stuck the engine straight in the car and had a completely reliable setup as is

All that work by some industrious japanese robot, wasted!

Oh well. Rob wanted a steel gasket no matter what, so it had to be done. The interesting thing is that the head bolts were torqued up to the revised setting, which means that the engine has seen some work after leaving the factory, probably into the care of one lady owner who only took it out on sundays and had it regularly serviced.

The upshot of all this is that tomorrow I'm taking the various bits to the engineering company for a check, and collecting the other bits for a quick ride to the scrapyard. With a little luck the only things that will need to be done to the block and head is a polish to remove the old gasket material, since under that they seem to have virtually a mirror finish already. When it's reassembled the end result should be as solid as one is likely to get on an engine of that age.

We also stripped one of the turbos, and it seems in pretty good condition overall, so it can be cleaned and go back in the car. A reasonable weekends work, all in all.

Attached is a picture of Rob amongst the debris of the engine, looking pleased at the destruction he's wrought

pca

_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#206397 - 07/03/2004 20:36 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: pca]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Damn, hit the wrong button! Here's the picture.

pca


Attachments
207419-work1.JPG (349 downloads)

_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#206398 - 07/03/2004 21:05 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: pca]
brendanhoar
enthusiast

Registered: 09/06/2003
Posts: 297
My favorite part of that pic is the camshaft (?) DELICATELY TAPED TO THE TABLE LEG.

-brendan

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#206399 - 07/03/2004 21:10 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: brendanhoar]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Actually, the crankshaft is temporarily tied pretty firmly to the leg in that picture. It weighs about 45 pounds, there was nowhere else to put it at that point, and we wanted to break for lunch Strapping it to the bench leg was a reasonably practical temporary solution I thought...

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#206400 - 08/03/2004 10:29 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: pca]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Hahaha... i didn't notice that at first but damn that is hilarious for some reason.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#206401 - 08/03/2004 19:14 Re: Supra engine rebuild [Re: pca]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
and with no people it would simply fall to pieces spontaneously
That made me laugh out loud, Patrick, thanks.

Great post, as always. Glad Rob's getting a good engine out of this whole deal. Best of luck to all of you getting it back together.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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