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...Arbor Element 66 board, length 166 CM... As far as the size is concerned, the board is both very long and very wide.

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K2 Cinch bindings

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So if I'm like, stuck in an avalanche, I can blow the whistle and hope they find me.

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if it would just FRICKIN' SNOW, that would be nice

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I'm having some trouble working out how the back folds down enough to let you slide your boot in

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It was a painting by a well-known sci-fi artist who paints a lot of starships. Only I couldn't remember the artist's name. He's the guy that uses a palette knife to paint everything, so the paintings look kind of sloppy and messy, but very technological-looking. Every hull panel and rivet on his starships is a swipe of the palette knife. If anyone can recognize the description of the artist and can name him for me, please post here, it's driving me nuts.

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I'm not sure about the wood, really. I mean... personally, I love it. To me, it looks like a finely-made acoustic guitar. But I've never seen anyone on the slopes with something like that. Everyone else has 1337 graphics and such on their boards. I wanted something different, and this certainly is different.

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Shame I only recently (last season) dropped a load of cash on a set of Flows. How good are they for people with wide feet?

I'll let you know when I actually get to try them out.

The complaints I've heard about the flows is that they don't cinch tightly enough and therefore don't give as much control.

The biggest difference between the K2 design and the Flow design is that the K2s have an additional articulation. As you lower the heel plate, the instep and toe straps actually hinge upward so that it's easier to get your foot in and out. And when you clip the heel plate in place, the instep and toe straps clamp downward again atop your foot.

I assume that by "pinch", you mean the sides of your feet? The clamping mechanism on these K2s seems to mostly be concerned with downward pressure, not side-pinching pressure, so it's possible this could be a good thing. We'll find out. Hopefully soon...

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Are there any pics of those bindings in action? I didn't see anything on the page and I'm having some trouble working out how the back folds down enough to let you slide your boot in (ie, it looks like it still has a rear hoop).

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Arbor board. Mmmm. I suggest you get a board lock to ensure that your board is still there when you come out after lunch!

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Still, I love my Custom with the neons under the rear tip...

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I thought Tahoe still had shedloads of snow?

In the sense that the slopes are still covered with some form of particles of frozen H20, yes. But calling that stuff "snow" is like calling McDonald's "cuisine".

I'm hoping my first day out with this board will be on some freshly fallen powder.

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I saw a photo of somebody using a wood-type board only this week. I forget what site but noticed it because they are pretty unusual (not that I've been on the slopes since I was at school).

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The complaints I've heard about the flows is that they don't cinch tightly enough and therefore don't give as much control.

I'll agree that they don't give as much control because they flex a little, but I don't think it's as bad as some people imply, and it's not been a problem for me yet.

I'm planning on upgrading to a K2 Nemesis at some point soon (my Salomon W5 is broken), and that's a springier board, so it might be less forgiving (it's also narrower; I'm hoping it'll make my cornering quicker) -- in which case the Flow bindings might start to show a difference.

I agree that Flows or step-ins or something else like that are a must-have though -- just ask Hugo how irritating he found it when I got out on the slopes at Whistler last season with my new Flows, and he still had to wrestle with normal-style bindings .

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I agree that Flows or step-ins or something else like that are a must-have though -- just ask Hugo how irritating he found it when I got out on the slopes at Whistler last season with my new Flows, and he still had to wrestle with normal-style bindings

Yup, that's a big part of the reason I wanted some kind of fast click-and-go system. The less time I spend sitting in the snow and fiddling with my bindings, the more runs I get in.

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I just bought a pair of those same Burton boots a month ago and LOVE them. They are by far the best snowboard boots I've ever worn.

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Thanks. I know exactly who you're talking about, I can't remember his name, either, and it's now driving me nuts, too.

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Hope you Froogled and PriceGrabbed the ever-lovin' crap out of your list before paying some of those retail prices...

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My wife says it reminds her of a wood-panel-side station wagon.

Well, the icon leading to description of 'Woodie Collection' does seem to depict an ancient, presumably wood-panel-sided station wagon

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I agree that Flows or step-ins or something else like that are a must-have though -- just ask Hugo how irritating he found it when I got out on the slopes at Whistler last season with my new Flows, and he still had to wrestle with normal-style bindings .

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Well, the icon leading to description of 'Woodie Collection' does seem to depict an ancient, presumably wood-panel-sided station wagon

Heh, I hadn't noticed that. I'll have to show that to my wife, she'll get a real kick out of it.

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My concern when trying them on was that they have a somewhat soft ankle. I can crouch and get the ankles to bend a lot easier than I would with a stiffer boot. How have they been in that regard?

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Are there any pics of those bindings in action? I didn't see anything on the page and I'm having some trouble working out how the back folds down enough to let you slide your boot in (ie, it looks like it still has a rear hoop).

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I thought Tahoe still had shedloads of snow? A few friends just came back from Ferney in Canada and after 9 days of gorgeous snow, it rained solidly for 3 days and pretty much washed the mountain away - no snow left, just mud. Looks like Whistler has been suffering too - when they're quoting "early spring conditions" in January you know things are baaaaaaad.
Hugo

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Have skied a fair bit before but I'm gonna try snowboarding this time

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my buddy has an Arbor board from 2000 and he loves it, the Element looks nice, but most importantly it's a good performer, too.

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Okay, just know this:

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Your first lessons on the board will be your instructor shouting at you to keep your weight on your front foot, and talking about how to carve a proper turn, etc. etc.... And all of that will be mostly a waste.

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As you're learning to make turns, what you find is that fear is your greatest enemy.

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Being a snowboarding instructor, I find this very funny. Its good to see it from a students point of view.

Woops, I've been caught. Okay, what I meant to say is...

You will remember everything the instructor told you, and it will all help you later. Listen to your instructor, and remember.

A lot of what he says won't apply the first several times you're up there because you don't have enough balance yet to apply it. But after you're going out by yourself and really starting to link your turns, then everything he said will start to come back and start to make sense.

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I find positive angle stances help me keep this position, about 24 front and 12 back.

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A helmet bit my sister once. No realli!

"The people responsible for sacking the original poster have now been sacked."

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I find positive angle stances help me keep this position, about 24 front and 12 back.

You turn both bindings so that your feet point somewhat forward? I'm so tempted to do this myself because I think I feel more comfortable that way. The guy at the board shop had my back foot slighly backwards and my front foot only about 15 degrees forward. I changed it to 15 and 0, and if that still doesn't feel right tomorrow, I'll turn them both more forward.

Your first stance from the board shop is called duck stance. Many freestyle riders use this because it gives them better control when riding fakie (switch). I don't like it because it throws my carving stance off. Look at the hard boot dudes, they all have extremely positive angles - like 55-60 degrees or more on both feet. It comes down to the type of riding you'll be doing and your personal preference, but for big mountain carving and general downhill riding (not freestyle or halfpipe) postitive angles probably would help.

Check your stance width, too. You probably should center this at first and then adjust it after you've ridden it a while. Most riders I see have their stance too wide - again for freestyle focus, stability on landings, etc.

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I'm glad I've got my own board and a field adjustment tool, I'm going to enjoy experimenting with different stances.

Just don't mess with it too much all at once, or you get the eye doctor syndrome: "which is better, this or this?", "uhhh.. can't tell the difference".

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Your first stance from the board shop is called duck stance. Many freestyle riders use this because it gives them better control when riding fakie (switch).

Gah. I tried to explain to the guy that I wasn't a freestyler, I only did downhill. But he still tried to set me up like I was some kind of stunt pilot.

Well, today I spent a LOT of time fiddling and adjusting the bindings, and I'm not sure if I was doing the right things or not. I couldn't get everything quite comfortable. I kept trying different angles and stances and NOTHING felt right to me.

I didn't try extreme forward angles. I only tried maximum of 15 back and 20 front, and it felt extremely wrong to me so I dialed all the way back to 0 0 and started working from there again. Actually, 0 0 didn't feel so bad. As long as I had my stance narrow enough. The guy at the shop had set it way too wide to start with.

By the end of the day I was at 0 back and 10 front with a farily narrow stance and that felt almost right. My real problem is fatigue, not being able to really REST upon my feet and board when moving. On the rental boards with the step-in boots, there were times when I could just relax my stance and not exert any muscle pressure in any direction and I would just cruise straight. When I did that today, that relaxation made my board catch and turn and mess up and such. I wanted to get my weight onto my front foot so I could relax a bit, but I ended up having to pull and twist my front foot's position so much, so hard, for so long, just to go straight, that my legs just ache after each run.

So I'm still trying to decide what to do about my stance. Simple question, but perhaps a not so simple answer: Which is better, stance forward on the board, or stance backward on the board? i.e., center of gravity mostly forward or mostly backward?

And I don't mean whether my feet hang farther off the toe edge or the heel edge. I mean forward or backward along the travel direction of the board. For instance, I'm goofy foot so I travel to my right. Should my stance be more towards the right end of the board, thus making the tail of the board longer, or just the opposite?

Aside from my stance problems, though, I had a great day. Took my daughter with me (she played hookey from school today) and we had a great time. She's learning how to ski and she did really well today. She can go down all the beginner runs unassisted without falling, making nice big turns and stops.

Overall, my reviews of the equipment after one days' use, are as follows:

Arbor Element Board:
Wow. This is one fantastic board. It felt good all day (when my stance adjustment issues are subtracted from the equation that is), was stable on both ice and powder and everything in between. And it got a compliment from some younger boarders, too. "Duuuuude, that's a sweet board. The wood and all? Something to be proud of."

Very very happy with the choice of that board.

Burton Freestyle Boots:
Loren is right, these are very comfortable. Stiff enough to transmit my commands to the board, but flexible enough to keep me comfortable.

I had the pain and tiredness in my feet, ankles, and calves, but I'm pretty sure it was my need to find a good stance adjustment, and not the boots. The way my legs/feet felt would change with each stance adjustment I made.

K2 Cinch Bindings:
Okay, these are a lot more fiddly than I thought they would be. They're not as easy to step into as the Flows. It takes some doing to step into these. Perhaps I just need practice.

One thing you quickly learn is that there is absolutely no way to step into these things when sitting down. You must be standing flat to get into them and must crouch while standing to close that back latch. This is not that big of a deal because, truthfully, that's the whole reason I got them is because I didn't WANT to have to sit down to get into my bindings.

Another thing... Since the back doesn't fold back perfectly flat, you could theoretically run into trouble if your chairlift is very low to the ground. As you're getting onto the lift, your back binding is underneath the chair. The backs of these bindings could get literally snapped off if the chairlift is all the way to the ground.

So you absolutely have to get in the habit of folding the heel plate fully forward into its packing/travel position before getting onto the lift. Now, I didn't run into that problem at the place I went to today, because their lifts had at least 12 inches clearance with the ground at the load point. But I could see it might be a problem in some situations.

The next thing is, I was hoping that I could just step into the binding (leaving it open but stepping into it loosely) as I got off the chair lift. Thus giving me more control when I got off the lift and less likely to fall. (I hate using the stomp pad, I have zero control over the board when my back foot is there.) Well, that sort of worked and sort of didn't. Yes, I have the ability to slip my foot loosely into the binding before I get off the lift. Yes, it gives me control and balance as I'm getting off the lift so I don't fall when I do that. So, the bindings are a big success in that area.

Except...

The lift operators get mad when I do it. I don't know why. You'd think they'd want me to be less likely to fall and block the lift exit. I think that when they see me do it, they see it from a distance, so they think I'm latched in with both feet when I'm not really.

So I'm practicing the technique of watching the lift operator watch me. When I can tell they've gotten a good look at my free dangling back foot, and then look away, then I can start to slip my foot into that back binding at the last moment just before getting off the lift. Then they have nothing to complain about. That seemed to work for me today.

So why do I say these bindings are "fiddly"? Two reasons.

1. I may be able to slip my foot easily in there partially in a casual way just to get off the lift. But when I really go to get my foot in for real and clamp that back latch, it takes a bit of doing. You really have to jam your foot in there pretty seriously to get the toe to move all the way forward. It's not like air, it's like kind of snug as you might expect. With a little practice, I think I can get this down to a science where I really can just step in, reach down, flip the latch into place, and go. But right now it takes some foot wiggling and a couple of latch flip attempts before it works.

2. The whole idea was that the ratcheted toe and instep straps would be a "set it and forget it" affair. I'd set them once at the beginning of the day and then wouldn't have to undo them again for the rest of the day. At least that's what I expected. Instead, what happens is, when you've got your back foot out of the binding and walking around getting on and off lifts and such, somehow those ratchets just loosen up and come completely undone. So you step into the binding, flip the back latch up, and... what? The instep strap is completely undone? WTF? When did that happen? So you're still back to bending over and ratcheting that into place. At that point I might as well have bought an ordinary strap-in binding because the thing hasn't saved me from any fiddling.

Now, that second thing didn't happen every time. Most of the time everything stayed in place and it was truly a snap-right-in situation. So what I need to do is figure out what I'm doing differently between the times it works right and the times it doesn't. Maybe it's when I fold the thing forward into the "travel" position that the instep strap comes undone. I'll have to look closer at it.

Bakoda Jimmy Driver Adjustment Tool:

Okay, this thing was pretty darn cool. Very cool field adjustment tool. Worked an absolute treat, it's handle is the perfect shape for operating from inside the binding. The thing fits into the space under the straps perfectly and just works. I know it's strange to be waxing poetic about a fricking screwdriver, but I'm serious, this is a cool little tool.

So, well, um, there it is.

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Well, today I spent a LOT of time fiddling and adjusting the bindings, and I'm not sure if I was doing the right things or not. I couldn't get everything quite comfortable. I kept trying different angles and stances and NOTHING felt right to me.

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On the rental boards with the step-in boots, there were times when I could just relax my stance and not exert any muscle pressure in any direction and I would just cruise straight. When I did that today, that relaxation made my board catch and turn and mess up and such. I wanted to get my weight onto my front foot so I could relax a bit, but I ended up having to pull and twist my front foot's position so much, so hard, for so long, just to go straight, that my legs just ache after each run.

What are you going straight for, anyway?
Rentals are sloppy messes. You've got a nice board with a good human->board interface and edges that are actually sharp. This will cause you to have problems trying to "rest" while crusing straight. I usually keep a slight edge one way or the other on the flats.

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So I'm still trying to decide what to do about my stance. Simple question, but perhaps a not so simple answer: Which is better, stance forward on the board, or stance backward on the board? i.e., center of gravity mostly forward or mostly backward?

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I had the pain and tiredness in my feet, ankles, and calves, but I'm pretty sure it was my need to find a good stance adjustment, and not the boots. The way my legs/feet felt would change with each stance adjustment I made.

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Since the back doesn't fold back perfectly flat, you could theoretically run into trouble if your chairlift is very low to the ground. As you're getting onto the lift, your back binding is underneath the chair. The backs of these bindings could get literally snapped off if the chairlift is all the way to the ground.

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The next thing is, I was hoping that I could just step into the binding (leaving it open but stepping into it loosely) as I got off the chair lift. Thus giving me more control when I got off the lift and less likely to fall. (I hate using the stomp pad, I have zero control over the board when my back foot is there.)

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The lift operators get mad when I do it. I don't know why. You'd think they'd want me to be less likely to fall and block the lift exit. I think that when they see me do it, they see it from a distance, so they think I'm latched in with both feet when I'm not really.

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The whole idea was that the ratcheted toe and instep straps would be a "set it and forget it" affair. I'd set them once at the beginning of the day and then wouldn't have to undo them again for the rest of the day.

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Coming from rentals this is going to happen.

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What are you going straight for, anyway?

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Centered is usually best, 1"-2" back for powder. You can set your bindings back 1" if it feels better, but never forward of center.

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Do you have a snowboard-specific pair of socks? I have a pair from Fox River and they really help to relieve pressure where it counts. Definately more comfortable after getting a pair of these

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You should probably practice with the stomp pad, everyone else uses one.

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I don't think this is actually a realistic goal.

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Okay, cool. A simple answer after all! Will check the positioning with a tape measure tonight.

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By "centered", do you mean centered on the mount-holes based on that center mark you described, or, do you mean measurably centered between the tip and the tail of the board?

Weeeelll, I meant centered on the mounting inserts.

BUT, measuring from the tip and the tail to the center points doesn't tell you how far away you are from the center of the effective edge (the place on the board that comes into contact with the snow). The board you have, like most others on the market, is directional - it has a tip and tail that are not identical. Some board manufacturers used to set the center of their inserts 1" from the center of the effective edge as a kind of standard, not sure if that is still in use today.

Short story: go with the center marks and adjust from there. If you are in buried-to-your-neck powder, set them back so you won't have to work at keeping your nose up the whole time.

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You should probably practice with the stomp pad, everyone else uses one.

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My only remaining issue with my stance setup is a slightly nagging problem where the pinky toe on my right foot (goofy foot forward) stayed numb most of the day. I don't think it was related to the tightness of the boot, because I loosened it and loosened the straps on the binding and it didn't change.

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I had a fantastic day of carving turns in buttery snow under gorgeous clear skies.

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How near (or naught) are you to Lovers' Leap?

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This happens to me if I don't loosen my binding up when I'm riding the lift, maybe the pressure of the board on your front foot is too much.

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What, exactly, are you standing on, there? It looks an awful lot like nothing.

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I made it up to Northstar today and gave the boots a good romping.