A couple months ago, I asked about where to get the best deal on a Mac laptop. Well, after a couple months of keeping my eyes on the prices, it's clear that the the laptop that meeds my needs specs-wise (15" Powerbook) isn't coming into my price range anytime in the near future. I would be willing to stretch myself a little, but the price premium is just too far beyond what I can stomach right now...

So I'm now switching gears and looking at the PC laptop market, one that I've never really gotten into. Heck, I haven't even bought a PC in a long time, I've just kinda kept adding on / replacing stuff on the one I have. So I'm a little out of the loop... Here's basically what I'm looking for from a $1000-ish budget:

15" minimum screen that can do WXGA or SXGA+ resolutions
2GHz or higher (AMD prefered over Intel, but that limits things a lot)
512 mb or higher RAM
60GB or higher HD
DVD writer would be really nice, but I'd settle for a CDRW
3 year warranty and adequate support should be available
Needs to have a touchpad (I hate those little eraser things)

Build quality and reliability are more important than the specs. Since laptops aren't as user-servicable as desktops, I want something that I can count on lasting more than a year or two before I've got to fix something major or replace it.

So, any quick recommendations?

HUmmm you need to check out DELL or Gateway they both have laptops in that price range, as for being able to count on it for more then a year or two I SUGGEST Strongly you get the service plans the 15" screen that WILL break of you even look at it funny is over 1000 bucks to have replaced on most laptops.

Just a sidenote... the Powerbooks are due for an update and price drop within the next month or two. Probably would have been sooner if it weren't for the delays with the speedbumped chips. I've been watching it closely for two months since i'm in the market for a 15" Powerbook myself... As soon as the new ones are released i'm plopping down the $$. The G5's Powerbooks should be out by year end, probably way sooner.

Avoid Sony. They make nice laptops, but their aftersales support is abysmal. That said, I've got a Sony Vaio SRX87 and I've had no problems with it (touch wood).

Yeah, I considered Dell, saw a lot of good deals on them lately. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the desktop Dell I bought my parents last year. Anyone know how Dell's laptops compare to HP and Compaq (basically the same price range) in terms of build quality and/or reliability? I don't care about name branding within those three (two) manufacturers, I consider them in the same league.

The next step up would be either Sony or Toshiba, I guess, but that's also typically a step up in price. I've seen cheaper VAIO's lately (in the $1000 range) but Roger's comment about after-sales support backs up many similar accounts I've read, so I'll probably stay away from them. If I go with Toshiba, I'll probably have to trade off some features/performance to get near that $1000 mark. I've seen lower-end Toshibas but read real bad things about them.

Loren, thanks for the Mac info... Problem is I read the same stuff on the Mac Rumors site a few months ago, I'm starting to lose patience. Assuming they really are coming sooner rather than later, and I can muster enough patience to wait, any guess as to what the current 15" Powerbooks (with Superdrive) will go for (with educational discount) when the new ones come out? Are we talking $1800, $1600, less? I know PC prices go south very quickly when newer models come out, but the economics of the Mac market seem very different.

I have a company-supplied Dell Latitude C600 with the super dock and I have had no problems with it in the past 3 years. It's a solid machine, just like the Toshiba that it replaced. I use it as my main PC each day (typing on the keyboard and using the display) and it has not given me any problems. The battery life is not the same as when I first got it, but that is to be expected for a 3 year laptop.

any guess as to what the current 15" Powerbooks (with Superdrive) will go for (with educational discount) when the new ones come out? Are we talking $1800, $1600, less?

Well, that depends on what comes out, obviously. But IMO the next powerbook update is simply going to be a G4 proc speed bump, and probably only on the order of .25Ghz bump at that. If that's the case, I'd expect the current 1.25Ghz proc w/ SuperDrive to only get marked down a few hundred. I'd say probably $2,299 or maybe $2,199. It'll probably be avail on the Apple Store with a Combo for $1,999 - taking place of the current 1Ghz.

Now, If they come out with the G5 powerbook, then we're talking something different. Who knows what the Apple resellers would pawn off the G4 powerbooks for at that point. But at the rate that the G4 powerbooks are selling right now, I don't see the G5 coming out for quite a while. Currently the G4 powerbook is Apple's biggest hardware seller under the iPod, of course.

- trs

Be certain to avoid P4 laptops in favor of the Centrino M processors. Much cooler and more battery efficient.

I've had very good reviews from the office road warriors on their Dell D500 and D600 laptops that I've procured over the last few months. The D505 and D800 (Dell Latitude) are available with 15"+ screens. They also offer an accident protection option (3 years).

I don't purchase the Precision or Inspirion lines, so I can't comment on them.

-Zeke

I don't think you're going to find everything you want near $1000, especially if you want on a 3 year warranty. $1500 is probably more realistic. It's possible that a service plan from a retailer like Best Buy would be cheaper then a warranty from the manufacturor. But I personally wouldn't want to have to count on Best Buy (or Circuit City, or CompUSA) for service.

The most important question to answer is how are you going to use the machine? Will it almost always be on a desk and plugged in? Then battery life and heat dissipation isn't so important. But if you are going to be using it unplugged and actually sitting on your lap like I do, then those factors are critical. Centrino (Pentium M) machines are far and away the best choice for truly mobile use in mainstream laptops.

We use a lot of Dells here at the office and we have problems with the build quality of their cases. Little pieces will break off or the hinges won't hold up.

I'm very happy with the Compaq X1000 I bought recently. It's reasonably thin and light given the size of this screen. The case feels solid (no flexing plastic like a Dell). It gets 4 hours on the battery. Great screen. Good keyboard. The only design flaw is that the AC adapter connects on the right side instead of the back.

I'd recommend that you get a laptop that is advertised as having a wide viewing angle on the LCD. These LCDs are better not just because of the viewing angle. They also are brighter and have more contrast. It's a significant difference and worth seeking out, IMO.

As a general statement, I don't think anyone beats IBM for build quality, reliability and service. But those come at a price.

Are there really any laptops out yet with DVD writers integrated into them?

-brendan

> As a general statement, I don't think anyone beats IBM for build quality, reliability and service. But those come at a price.

Oh yeah. And as an IBM employee, I have access to the EPP (Employee Purchase Plan). If you're looking at thinkpad models, esp. ones that're just about to be replaced by a new line, they've got excellent deals.

If a thinkpad takes your fancy, contact me privately and I'll look up the current deals. I can give "friends and family" access access to the order page, so if board people vouch for you, I'll consider you a friend.

One of my friends just bought an X31 for $999 through my access to the program. I thought about getting one for myself for a week, and by that time, they were long gone. Man, that was a steal.

Current specials are R40e's and T41s at the lower config ranges.

-brendan

In reply to:

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Are there really any laptops out yet with DVD writers integrated into them?

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Definitely. It's a common option now. I've got a 2.4x DVD+RW burner in mine.

The next step up would be either Sony or Toshiba, I guess, but that's also typically a step up in price. I've seen cheaper VAIO's lately (in the $1000 range) but Roger's comment about after-sales support backs up many similar accounts I've read, so I'll probably stay away from them.

I've had three Vaio Laptops with no problems whatsoever (I've never tried calling tech support since I never had to).

> 15" minimum screen that can do WXGA or SXGA+ resolutions

Ok, more doubt: I'm not aware of any $1000-ish non-refurb laptops that can do SXGA+ or WXGA. My awareness is limited to pricewatch.com

I used to do some support, and worked closely with a guy who did a lot of support, on Compaq laptops in a corporate environment. I'm pretty sure they were business-class laptops, but I could be wrong. We had nothing but trouble with the laptops and with Compaq support. And we had some sort of special sponsorship deal with them. I vowed never to buy a Compaq laptop. Maybe they're not as bad these days. Maybe they're selling HP laptops now, which always worked well for me. But those Compaq laptops sucked.

I can echo the miserable experiences with Compaq laptops (though their servers have been nothing but rock solid, in my experience). I have an older Panasonic Toughbook CF-71 (the one with the military case and carry handle) that has NEVER let me down. One of my friends has one of the newer models and is really happy with it, even if it isn't quite as tough as the CF-71.

Toshiba seems to be into making "winbooks" these days -- I would never buy anything that won't run Linux well.

Cheers

Toshiba seems to be into making "winbooks" these days -- I would never buy anything that won't run Linux well.

Does that basically narrow it down to IBM, or are there other options too? Sony TR1MP/TR2MPs are lovely, but you can't even get X on them properly as the panel's native resolution isn't one of the ones the BIOS knows about.

Peter

My Dell D600 seems to be quite happy running Knoppix.

you can't even get X on them properly as the panel's native resolution isn't one of the ones the BIOS knows about.

What? That sentence sounds like one of those random strings of computer terms you hear in TV shows.

XFree86 can display basically any timing you want it to. This is potentially constrained by the graphics chip, but you know the graphics chip can put out the right timing, as it works under Windows. Of course, maybe you mean that there's no XFree86 driver for that graphics chip and you're forced to use VESA mode and none of those modes fit right, but I doubt that's the case. There are very few graphics chips on new computers and I doubt that any are unsupported that badly.

I know I'm coming off like a jerk here, but I can't figure out how to put it differently. Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what you're saying.

Using standard VGA modes on an 1400x1050 LCD laptop might make some people's eyes bleed. Don't LCD screens look horrid at non-native rez?

-brendan

You want quality, reliability and a solid warranty above all else...
Hands down, IBM.

HP/Compaq is another possibility, but I believe that they won't be around anymore in 3 years (or at least in a vastly altered state), so I won't recommend them. Their support is crap as well. First you talk to an Indian tech that may not be able to solve your problem and then redirects you back to an US-based one. 2x transoceanic phone lines = garbled sound.
Dell is a popular option, but they're beginning to outsauce their support as well... More Indian techs that can only follow a script.

As someone else said, you want Centrino (Pentium M). Think of this as a PIII on steroids. A 1.5Ghz is (IIRC) ~as fast as a 2.4Ghz P4.

Just for kicks:
http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/products/mobile/
The SPARCle starts at $3k...

Sparc laptops were the deal back in the day, but, honestly, I can't see the benefit in one now unless you can't get your employer to pony up for a development Sparc box.

This is potentially constrained by the graphics chip, but you know the graphics chip can put out the right timing, as it works under Windows. Of course, maybe you mean that there's no XFree86 driver for that graphics chip and you're forced to use VESA mode and none of those modes fit right, but I doubt that's the case.

Well, I don't have one myself, but the problem is widely reported to be that the chipset operates in two modes: using the built-in VESA modes, none of which is right (the LCD is "widescreen" 1280x768), or "other modes". Programming it for "other modes" is apparently non-obvious and undocumented, and only the closed-source Windows driver knows how to do it.

Peter

We have HP notebooks at work and the build quality is ok but they are very unreliable - slow, crash etc. I've never had a problem with any Dell PCs/notebooks and find their customer service to be excellent.

We also have Toshiba notebooks and they have to be the best build quality I've seen - perform very well too. Pricey in comparsion though.

Thanks to everyone for all the info and suggestions. The responses are all kinda telling me that I underestimated what a well-built PC laptop would set me back. I was, in fact, seeing sub-$1000 prices (with coupons and rebates some of them were WAY sub-$1000), but they were mostly P4's. Dell and others seem to be clearing out P4 laptops on the cheap. Those same discounts don't seem to be reflected in Centrino laptops, and certainly, the IBM's, Toshibas, and Sony's of the world don't seem to be playing catch-up.

Having said that, it seems like $1300 or so will get me into an HP zt1300 with 15.4" WXGA and a 1.4 GHz Centrino and 256MB RAM. That's not so bad. From distilling the comments here and reading the various reviews, it looks like this is my best bet in a laptop unless I want to sacrifice screen size to go with an Thinkpad or Toshiba. But that HP has gotten really stellar reviews on CNet, which is kinda rare considering negatives often speak louder than positives... If I go with a PC, this is probably where I'll go.

However, I peeked at the Apple refurbs again tonight, and it looks like if I just stretch out a couple hundred more, I can get a refurbished Titanium with 15" screen and about the same performance characteristics. I'm really tempted to do that now that I've realized a $1000 PC laptop is going to be crappy. If I think of it as a 3+ year investment (which I'm not used to doing with desktops) it becomes esaier to stomach the thought of plunking down more cash. I think after all this, I'm actually swinging back towards the Powerbooks.

Wouldn't you know it, after all that, I bought the freakin' refurbished 15" Powerbook. I figure if I"m going to shell out $1300-$1500 for a well-built PC laptop, I might as well go the extra mile and get something I really want. I will definitely have a million questions for you Mac guys once it gets here, but as long as it's got a bash prompt, I should do okay.

Thanks again for all the input, everybody.

Hey, congrats! I got my new 15"er just a couple of months ago and I love it. Did you get the backlit keyboard? I was amazed at how useful that feature really was.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of configuration did you end up getting?

- trs

bought my first apple about 6 months ago and have not looked back since

Only problem is i want a nice shiny G5 desktop now instead of a £500 self built pc piece of junk

Nice.
Did you get the AppleCare plan too?