The only thing in the EQ that generated any real heat was the illumination (6 incandesant 12v bulbs) which I prompltly changed out for Blue Nicha LEDs that are cool to the touch.

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

No, YOU missed the point. The player does not run that hot, it does not glitch or crash (well, there is a rare bug in 1.01 that can do that but its not heat related). Read my last post again - I thought I was quite clearly saying that your specific player may well have a problem.

I don't know why you would just assume that this behaviour is normal - we do actually know a thing or two about designing hardware. If your player is working normally then there's SOMETHING different with your install because we have players in hotter climates that Miami and its not unusual for a DIN bay to have restricted airflow. As I said, as soon as you started getting glitching and crashing you should have contacted customer support, not open up the player invalidating your warranty. I for one would contact support if my $1000+ product didn't work properly!

The main board in the empeg runs practically cold - the 220Mhz processor that you draw attention to is a StrongARM which runs completely cold, it doesn't even need a heat sink. The only noteworthy heat generators in the unit are the VFD and the hard drives. When was the last time you saw a force cooled notebook harddrive? Sure they have a fan for the x86 processor, but I've even seen notebook drives completely sealed in a tin can (Compaq LTE series) and they're quite happy with it. The VFD is supposed to get hot, it has heaters which are fundamental to its operation.

The fan mounting point is historical - the original metalwork was designed before we even had any production circuit boards and it seemed sensible to arrange the ventilation holes in a fan formal just incase one was needed. In fact it wasnt needed, but there was no point producing new CAD for the metalwork.

Why don't we fit a fan anyway? Apart from the fact that you're the only person that ever had a problem, the fan significantly reduces the height of drive that can be accommodated without the two colliding when the shock mounts flex.

The figure of 55 degrees is quoted in line with the drive manufacturers spec sheet. For the same reason you can't operate a laptop under the same conditions, or a portable hard drive based MP3 player either. The operating tolerance for a CD head is usually similar or even lower. In practice, of course, people do use all of these items in a hot environment - but if you regularly drive your car with a cabin temperature over 130F then you're taking risks with your health. In practice, of course, you most likely switch on the AC and the cabin temperature drops to a comfortable 70F - 90F very quickly. If you're comfortable, your empeg will be comfortable.

While I was working on other things in the truck (parked) I would have the Empeg playing for listening pleasure. After about 3 to 4 hours it would lock up, crash or reboot with some unpleasant pops

You don't leave it parked in the sun do you? Without AC? If you run your empeg in an oven for four hours then, yes, it will get hot! We publish an operating temperature limit of 55 degrees as you know, but a truck left in the sun can easily reach or exceed that temperature (as you also know).

I hope you see this conversation as an intellectual one and not a pissing contest.

Of course.

Rob

I still can't see the point of all this; the empeg has temperature sensors on board designed to shut the machine down if it gets too hot or too cold in operation. That is by design. The temperature boundaries for operation are set by the operation ranges of the devices chosen to be in the box, hence if there is a case temperature above or below this threshold, the unit shuts down. This is surely what is happening on your unit. I may be wrong - perhaps there is a problem with the sensor on your unit.

I know you say that you love the empeg, and that you don't want this thread to be negative. I also don't want a firefight here, but all the things you are telling me sound agressive, negative, and are pitched in a manner that get my back up. From my own experience of QA, I would say that you shouldn't be pitching your suggestions this way. It is simply antagonistic and "blame oriented".

What I do see is that you appear to have a problem (which no one else has so far had), you then report it in a strange way on a public BBS and then agressively defend your stance, all without having simply mailed support to ask if this behaviour is normal.

Instead, you have apparently tried using an external fan, to fix a ventilation problem that you have in part caused yourself by obstructing the normal flow of convection air out of the unit, by placing another powered unit directly above it, with no clearance. You have not said anything about the rest of your install - for example, have you verified the current draw on the remote enable line is below the maximum, since excessive current draw will inevitably cause heating? - so we can only react to what you say here. If it was me dealing with this situation I would have swapped over the unit's positions to see if the situation was improved, and if not, I would be talking to empeg first before kludging in a fix.

There is no doubt you were initially trying to help, and in common with a great deal - in fact, almost the majority - of people on this board, this is only to be applauded. You should not, however, diss suggestions from others who are equally, making a similar attempt to help you with a problem that you are reporting, directly or indirectly, on this thread. Designs that rely on active forced cooling methods such as a fan are heading for the dumper - the much more elegant passive threshold & convection design of the empeg that doesn't need a fan at all are to be applauded. Witness the new generation designs from Apple.

I still stand by what I say - you have a problem. You have aggravated it by your installation configuration, which to me seems technically unsound. You have not been conservative in checking that the unit was not at fault with the manufacturer (already well known to be exceedingly concientious about support issues), and fallen back (in my opinion unneccessarily) on a "fix" just to get it working. I know the desperation you can feel to get that empeg in the vehicle and working - I have suffered from it too, you know - but this is just taking risks, for reasons unknown to me. I wouldn't risk my 800 pound stereo like this, for the same reasons you state!

This to me is an extremely strange way to proceed with issues relating to a high-value electronic device, and coming from one who professes to have training in electronics and works in QA, I am left puzzled and, to be honest, upset by your attitude. I would not like to have you feel that I am sounding "hostile", and I suspect you will - but I am still left with the feeling that I am fending off a knife attack out of the blue.


One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I had my MK1 shut down (lock up) a few times while driving this summer. The outside air temp was over 98F and a 400hp motor with headers was within 14" of the unit (no insulation on the firewall yet). There are pics in the install section. There's a vent (1949 airconditioning) directly over the unit, which was closed because I hadn't figured out the linkage yet, however buy opening it about 1/8" the problem was solved. It wasn't caused by airspace around the unit because there's 7' space around it; it was the ambient under dash temp.

On a side note: I'm totally amazed at how well these units work, I have constantly beat the hell out of the unit (temperature and vibration wise) and it just continues to flawlessly play music.

AL

You are right... I have re-read my posts and they were too hostile. I guess I just felt attacked for somthing I felt strongly about. I apoligize for my aggressiveness. Anyhow the real reason I guess I jumped to put a fan in was to see if I could avoid a product return fiasco with customs and or Empegless for the time of any needed repairs. I thought to myself..... I will try to cure the heat first and if that does'nt work then I guess I will pay for a repair. So far no problems yet. :)
I also am guilty of enjoying a good high energy conversation too.

Cheers!

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue

nothing like a fiesty thread huh?

I've had my unit shut down due to excessive heat. First i wondered if there was another problem, but after removing the unit and finding it really hot I held it in front of the AC vent on full and on re-insertion, all was cool (ha).

I am thinking about venting the unit to AC by inserting a pipe into an appropriate point in the AC so it always gets cool air.

I don't see any problem with the current unit design given the the operating params are listed. If you live in a hot area, ventilate it. Hypothetical: should empeg have a warming circuit if the unit is transferred from the cold? not IMHO.
0.02USD


____________________
Murray 06000047

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015