The mk2 *will* be black (or very close charcoal I suspect). The renderings aren't supposed to be colour accurate!

I think people who *don't* have empegs think that the entire front of the mk1 is a display - which it isn't. The display is a smaller area in the centre of the panel.

Hugo

I thought it had white-face instruments with white illumination (but you should check this with your dealer).

rob / empeg team -

i´m a bit disappointed by the new mk2´s design, as well as my wife, who is waiting on the queue (12...) as i do (65..).
altman is right when saying the black fits all. currently i have an becker mexico, which has a black face as well. becker´s user-interface is known to be famous for user-interaction - an it has an great design.

why, for hell, are you going to kick the inner values of the empeg with such a horrible design ? would´nt it be better to have a kind of poll getting the board (->interested users !) into the selection process ? asking for comments ? for now, again, you see your customers in reaction to your decisions.

i really really hope that you will be able to provide any kind of frontplate-replacement. for me, designs like becker or blaupunkt are heading to a "good"-interface and design. i´m not the market, but thats my opinion - and i see the board heading towards the same direction.

please, think about it !

best regards
djangoo, germany, waiting since 12.04.99

> altman is right when saying the black fits all.

Yeah, and that's why the panel is going to be black. You don't think we're going to use those colours from the cad rendering do you? They're just to show up each of the parts.

> why, for hell, are you going to kick the inner values of the empeg with such a horrible design

A lot of people said the same thing about the Mark 1.

Rob

Firstly, I Like the minimalist look of the Mark 1.
However, I think the proposed Mark 2 looks fantastic..

It's the car stereo of the future, why should it look like all the others...

Jazz
(List 112, S/N 00030, 4 gig blue)

> It's the car stereo of the future, why should it look like all the others...

One of the designs we rejected was a very conventional, "nice" looking car stereo. At first glance it could have been an empeg, it could have been a CD head, it could have been a $99 tape head.

I know this thread would be a lot shorter if we'd gone with that design, but we're not a conventional company and I hope we never will be!

Rob

I've been watching these threads for the last few days, and I just have to say that I don't see how anyone could say that the new Mark 2 face is worse than the Mark 1 face. I think it's fantastic, and I just don't see what you're complaining about.

For those who have expressed displeasure with the design, consider these things:

1) Imagine it in black or dark charcoal instead of the enhanced colors shown on the design screen. That's what it'll be moulded in.

2) Do you actually own a Mark 1? If you've never seen a Mark 1 close-up, and you're complaining about the Mark 2 design, you probably need to get some real face time with a Mark 1 to understand what an improvement it is.

3) Have you looked at a Crutchfield catalog recently? Thumb through the catalog with the Mark 2 design up on the screen in front of you. The Mark 2 design is a model of simplicity, elegance, and grace. Nothing at all like the gaudy, excessive, complicated designs you see in that catalog.

Who's with me on this?

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

I am very positive about the buttons. They are great ergonomically because they are different sizes and shapes. One of the most important ergonomic considerations on car stereos is how to mold and shape the controls so you can work them without looking at the device physically -- this is very important in a car. This is one the great failings of the credit card remote because all the buttons are the same and could be dangerous to use while the vehicle is in motion. If you examine a lot of the popular aftermarket car stereos out there, you'll find that even though some of them have a dozen buttons, every one of them is shaped, positioned and oriented so that a hand feeling around can tell one from another. Some of the worst stereos out there have simply a row of identical buttons...

The mark 1 is ok ergonomically with its 4 buttons orientation-wise, but as soon as you get into the remote, uh oh!

Calvin

The Kameleon is definitely cool but ergonomically all those similarly sized buttons all along the bottom, come on! They really sacrificed usability for fashion.

Calvin

I didn't mean to start so much trouble with this thread. The more I look at it, the more it grows on me. I'm looking forward to seeing the picture that Rob mentioned next week. Don't get me wrong though...I still can hardly wait to get one!

Straight up, the design is great. I know that many people don't believe that it is a stereo and ask more about the CD in the dash (For radio sorry folks and previewing CDs before I rip them).
I believe this panel is great but what about the button colour?
Will they be black like the panel or available in bright colours like the sketches?



-- Murray
Empeg changed my life and it did happen overnight.

OK, I think rob has copped enough crap over this. If you had bothered to read all the previous posts, you would have already had answers to some of your questions like "why wasn't there a vote?" etc etc..

Personally, I like the minimalist look (of the previous design). What I don't really like is "portal" effect the curvy shape has making it look like the screen is obscured even if it's not. I do like the buttons arrangement though.

There, I have that off my chest but I don't have to crucify bob in the process. Sometimes in order to be progressive, you have to bite the bullet and make decisions on the spot. That's what leaders do and they don't *always* get it right. In any case, I applaud bob for his efforts because it's this sort of initiative which has achieved a sterling product to date.

Maybe when everyone at empeg has made lots more money, there will be some spare to spend on tooling for a "skins" based interface. And if they still choose not to, then bad luck. It's still a great product. Until then, stop winging and bitching about it.

I believe this panel is great but what about the button colour? Will they be black like the panel or available in bright colours like the sketches?

Personally, I'm hoping for backlit buttons.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

And I have to say to Lord Bleys, functionality? What functionality?

Re: functionality of form
The unoccupied area in the left corner keeps me from fingerprinting the display pane when working with buttons -- a problem with the current design because I find myself cleaning the faceplate almost daily. You called it "large". It's actually not that big...

The buttons are contoured so that I know which one I'm touching when driving at night (in the dark) -- without having to get distracted fingering the panel to find out where my fingers are relative to it.

The "wing" slopes to the right and draws my eye away from the buttons and toward the display -- which is where I want my passengers' eyes to be.

The knob is well-placed and placed large enough to find easily in the dark. As a bonus it appears to be raised enough that I need not worry about fingerprinting the faceplate section covering the IR receiver.

The faceplate will most likely be black (at this point I think it's confirmed in another thread, here) to avoid style/matching problems in most vehicles.

That's what I meant by functional... I'm glad you asked -- because my .sig definately applies in this case.

-- Bleys

"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

Who's with me on this?

I am. Especially with your last point. And I'm glad that the Empeg team did something unconventional. I DO NOT want a car stereo that looks or acts just like all the others -- that's why I bought an Empeg in the first place.

Cutting edge technology deserves cutting edge design. Cutting edge design is typically VERY different from currently-accepted lines of thinking. Currently-accepted lines of thinking become boring very quickly. I don't like boring things...

-- Bleys

"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

Personally, I'm hoping for backlit buttons.

I asked about backlit buttons long ago. Funny you mention it, here, because today I raised it in the Mk2 Fascia thread, as well. I have the same hope -- although I think the contoured buttons will alleviate the need entirely so it's no big deal either way...

-- Bleys


"If you would judge, understand." -- Seneca

tfabris-
I don't know if you were responding to me in the middle part of your post, but I specifically said that I liked the buttons and the knob, so I don't know why you were defending them.

I will, like many others wait for the new pics. Also, if you saw what Rob said, the top-left corner will be lessened due to the fact that it covered some of the pixels. This was my major peeve, that it didn't seem to have much consideration for the actual screen and didn't seem to match it. I suppose it's just that I'm not used to this kind of button/display combination on a car stereo. The display is a little larger than some normal ones, but the fact that there's so many fewer buttons (therefore leaving so much more room on the face) is what throws me off.

Oh-well. As I said, I'll still buy it, and I can't wait to see what it will look like.

Been waiting longer, and don't choose to prevent a June 9 releaese over a silly fascia...............maybe when there are 20 other players like the Emgeg we can be discriminant..Besides ,"beauty is only skin deep".

Good point

"beauty is only skin deep".

Yeah, but Ugly goes right to the bone.

Tony Fabris
Empeg #144

Don't you think you're being presumptuous when you claim to speak for "most of the people here"?

I, for one, *love* the new design. I wish I could get it in silver like the render. I've never liked the spartan look of the Mark I, but this new design is excellent.

So, if you don't like it, fine. But you don't speak for me or anyone else.

I would hardly say that a "50Gig" bone is ugly.

>I REALLY don't like to aerofoil design. In fact, at this stage, I'd rather have a MkI

Good. Hopefully there are a bunch of people like you who will happily buy my Mark I so I can buy the Mark 2, which is much better looking!

NasalGoat, man, getting a little mean there aren't you?

I have no idea who you were refering to in your post about the person who was "speaking for most of the people here", so since my post is the one that most closely matches the phrase you mentioned, I will reply. I think you should read more closely. I simply made an observation that most of the people posting were unhappy with the new design. This is just the way it appeared to me. In no way did I say that I was "speaking for the people".

If I was not the person you were posting about, then please specify next time, but since it appears your post was a reply to one by Jens who didn't say anything like what you mentioned, I am confused.

ps-I'd just make it perfectly clear that the thing that mostly turned me off about the new design is that in the renderings, it appeared that there was no way for the screen to fit correctly, and this made it appear like the functionality was taking a back seat to marketability.

I think rob has made it clear that the screen will fit fine. Those were renderings and can be adjusted to fit the screen correctly.

> most of the people posting were unhappy with the new design

Yes, but there are only about 15 participants in this thread. There are 15,000 people in our mailing list, most of whom have probably looked at the Mark 2 design by now. People don't tend to make much effort to speak out if they're happy with something, only if they're unhappy.

I've also noticed that most of the positive comments have been emailed to me directly rather than being posted here. I guess some people don't want to risk getting into a flame war.

> it appeared that there was no way for the screen to fit correctly

I overlaid graphics TO SCALE (near as possible anyway) just to prove that they do fit! If you wanted you could take measurements from the rendering (which is output directly from the SolidWorks file) and prove this to yourself.

Rob

I overlaid graphics TO SCALE ( . . ) just to prove that they do fit!
Thanks for describing how you decided that they fit; very clever procedure indeed, but I had already taken your word on it.

If you wanted you could take measurements ( . . ) and prove this to yourself!
I'd rather have you do something useful


Henno
# 00120 (6GB+18)

I know, I know. Again, I was just saying this was how it appeared to me.

For someone who doesn't own a unit, it's hard to know the size of the screen. You have to admit, It looks like the top-left edge of the "airplane wing" is awful close to the "e" in empeg, at least in the rendering.

I overlaid graphics TO SCALE ( . . ) just to prove that they do fit!
Umm.. Did you allow for the flourecent panel isn't hard up against the front panel? Don't get me wrong, I like the new layout, I just want to know that people viewing from the side can see the funky graphics.
If you did a 3D render and showed viewing angles, all is sweet.

I have seen JVCs el Kameleon and can say that the blank panel, similar to Mk 1s, is pretty ordinary. Especially when they claim "if there is nothing to see, there is nothing to steal." What crap. Empeg's line could be "if there is nothing there except a hole in the dash where the stereo used to be, the car has already been hit, or has it?"
In my opinion, ($0.02), the new front panel is just the icing on the cake of a fantastic product.



-- Murray
Empeg changed my life and it did happen overnight.

Rob,

You're right. When people like something, then tend to stay quiet. Unless I've got a gripe or a suggestion, I keep my mouth shut. I'll admit that I didn't like the new design when I first saw it. But, I'm the kind of person who likes to find every little thing wrong with something, so I had it open in my browser window for about 20 minutes as I was reading the latest batch of messages from the list. During that time, it grew on me. Now... I *love* it! Try to keep looking at it for a while... it'll probably grow on you, too.


George