#228543 - 27/07/2004 17:13
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, in this case, as far as I can figure, the ingredients for such a chocolate "milkshake" are chocolate ice cream and milk. There's no chocolate-on-chocolate. It's just the crappy over-saturated chocolate from the ice cream minus any vanilla flavoring.
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Bitt Faulk
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#228544 - 27/07/2004 17:40
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
Note that I include cake in this formula. If you make a cake with chocolate icing, the inside's gotta be the yellow stuff, not the chocolate stuff.
I agree with the milkshake logic of no chocolate-on-chocolate. But I definitely am a fan of the chocolate-on-chocolate cake. Now, keep in mind that not all chocolate is created equal. When it comes to chocolate cake, where the chocolate itself is the feature - rather than ice cream where the cream is really more prevalent - the key is using the right kind of chocolate for the different parts of the cake.
For me, nothing beets a semisweet chocolate cake smothered in a bittersweet ganache. It is of course chocolate-on-chocolate, but the flavors are hardly similar and you still end up with the distinct layors of flavor. But, I'm really a chocolate snob. I don't even consider chocolate ice cream really a chocolate dessert.
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#228545 - 27/07/2004 18:00
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: trs24]
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old hand
Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
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LOL.. Looking at your avitar when I read this thread you were listening to: "Grandaddy - Stray Dog and the Chocolate Shake." Very nice!
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#040103696 on a shelf
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#228546 - 27/07/2004 18:32
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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All this "chocolate-on-chocolate" action is getting me...hungry  I am also a fan of chocolate-on-chocolate cake, though. I'm almost never a fan of the yellow stuff.
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Matt
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#228548 - 27/07/2004 19:34
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Waterman981]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
LOL.. Looking at your avitar when I read this thread you were listening to: "Grandaddy - Stray Dog and the Chocolate Shake." Very nice!
Ha Ha Ha... wow, the irony!
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#228549 - 27/07/2004 19:41
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Dignan]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
All this "chocolate-on-chocolate" action is getting me...hungry
Me too, I'm going to have to get some cake supplies on the way home!
Quote:
I am also a fan of chocolate-on-chocolate cake, though. I'm almost never a fan of the yellow stuff.
I have to say, though. I Do like the yellow stuff. That Betty-Crocker yellow cake is definitely a staple.
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#228550 - 27/07/2004 19:48
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Quote:
Y'all are a buncha freaks.
How about chocolate cake for breakfast?
Dad is great! Gives us chocolate cake!
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#228551 - 27/07/2004 20:08
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
LOL.. Looking at your avitar when I read this thread you were listening to: "Grandaddy - Stray Dog and the Chocolate Shake." Very nice!
Ha Ha Ha... wow, the irony!
Not unless your name is Alanis...
Coincidence, yes. Irony, no.
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#228552 - 27/07/2004 20:54
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Not unless your name is Alanis...
Coincidence, yes. Irony, no.
See, I never understood that complaint everyone has about her song.
I mean yes, the primary definition of the word "irony" is saying the opposite of what you mean. "Sarcasm" is also often synonymous with that definition of "irony".
But dictionary.com also tells me that another accepted sub-meaning of irony is the Alanis Morisette meaning: "Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs."
In fact, when it comes to common usage, I've found that usually when someone says "I was being sarcastic", they were saying the opposite of what they meant. And when they say "Gee, that's ironic", they mean the circumstances coincidentally happened in a manner opposite of what you would expect, i.e., being unexpectedly incongruous. Which I think fits the main definitions of both words, and also fits the lyric of her song.
The way Alanis used the word in her song fit perfectly with what I felt, at the time, was the common usage of "ironic".
(Note that I've been studying that lyric recently because I'm trying to come up with a good parody of it, so I've put some thought into this.)
But don't get me started on the common misuse of the word "parameters" in sci-fi movies (E.g., Commander Data)...
Edit: And now that I look it up, the Cmdr. Data use of Parameter is also one of the accepted sub-meanings...
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#228553 - 27/07/2004 21:31
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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What you're saying makes sense, but I think the difference is more subtle than that.
And I don't think you're thinking of the right lines of the song when you're defending it. For instance, "It's the good advice that you just didn't take." That doesn't fit any of your definitions.
I think they were discussing the song on one of those many VH1 "Celebreties Reminisce" shows. Someone made a funny point that if we were to believe that Alanis were a very creative songwriter, she could have put lines in her song that weren't ironic on purpose, thus writing a song about irony that contained phrases which weren't ironic, thereby being ironic in itself 
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#228554 - 27/07/2004 22:15
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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From milkshakes to chocolate cake to the definition of ironic. How incongruous between what was expected and what actually occured! You gotta love this board.
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#228555 - 27/07/2004 22:29
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Okay, then... What word would you use other than "ironic"?
As far as I know, all of the things she listed in the song were things that I would have referred to as ironic, based what I thought the meaning of the word was, prior to hearing the song for the first time.
In fact, if I'd heard her lyric without knowing the title or hearing the line "Isn't it ironic", I would have guessed that the song was named "Ironic" or something involving that word.
And you can't say "Coincidence" because that's a much more mild term that doesn't capture the implied dark humor that I associate with the word "ironic". It's not about coincidences, it's about things which happen exactly, precisely, wrong... like Murphy's Law kind of wrong. To me, that's what ironic always meant, as long as I've known the word.
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#228556 - 27/07/2004 23:18
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Okay, here are the things in the lyrics to that song that are supposed to be ironic. You tell me which ones are ironic by any definition. Actually, I'll tell you why they aren't.
Quote:
An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day
The expected result of winning the lottery is ... nothing, really. The expected result of being 98 is death before long.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's a black fly in your chardonnay
The expected result of having chardonnay is, again, nothing.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
The expected result of being on death row is being put to death.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's like rain on your wedding day
The expected result of having a wedding is getting married.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's a free ride when you've already paid
The expectation of paying for a ride is getting a ride. This actually could be ironic if the story was further established, like maybe if there was a struggle to find funds to pay. But it's not.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
I don't even know how to approach this one. I suppose there's not any direct result from receiving advice.
Not ironic.
Quote:
Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids good-bye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
"Well, isn't this nice."
This one's real close. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say:
Ironic.
Quote:
A traffic jam when you're already late
Honestly, I'd say that the expected result of starting out to work late is hitting a traffic jam.
Not ironic.
Quote:
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
Okay, that's just being stupid. One would assume that if you're taking a cigarette break, it because you're not allowed to smoke where you were to begin with. Why would you go somewhere that also doesn't allow smoking.
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife
The expected outcome of needing a knife is searching for a knife. This approaches irony, but:
Not ironic.
Quote:
It's meeting the man of my dreams
and then meeting his beautiful wife
Again, meeting the man of ones dreams has no explicit expected outcome.
Not ironic.
These things are all unfortunate coincidences, but are mostly not ironic.
Feel free to say I'm wrong, though.
Edited by wfaulk (27/07/2004 23:19)
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Bitt Faulk
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#228557 - 27/07/2004 23:19
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?--well, ultimate dish anyways...
[Re: time]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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#228558 - 28/07/2004 00:35
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Clearly you've got a more strict definition of what you consider ironic than Alanis and I do. The things you listed as being "not ironic" are things that I would generally say were ironic. By what I thought was the generally accepted use of the word, not by the dictionary definition.
You're picking nits in a couple of places, like the line about the man dying after he wins the lottery; it's ironic to die after winning a huge prize therefore not being able to enjoy it, regardless of age. Although I admit, the line about good advice is a stretch but I think it makes a good rhyme in the chorus and brings the song together nicely.
So what other word would you use to describe situations like that? Where there's something darkly humorous about it, where you get the feeling that the universe is playing a joke on you?
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#228559 - 28/07/2004 01:29
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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All this chcolate on chocolate talk is making me think you guys aren't talking about milkshakes anymore. I'd post up some of my more out-there creations, but then I'd have to kill you all. I still have plans to commercialize some at some point.  After all, people are already stealing my "tastes like ass" line. I will defintely chime in on Hershey's though. They're definitely the Coors of Chocolate. It's like "memories of chocolate." You know it's supposed to taste like cholcolate, it looks like it, even smells like it somewhat. But really, it's far from. Some of the worst I've ever tasted is one of the most recognisable products as well: Kisses. Blech. I'm also a big fan of using natural peanut butter with milk concoctions and/or icecream (not skippy or any similar crap, but Adams of local brands of "just peanuts" variety - better without salt). You do have to be careful when using some chocolates you might normally enjoy solo while trying to make a shake. Lindt has some amazing chcolates but I don't know if they'd all be appropriate for chocolate shake making. I make a milkshake (non icecream) for breakfast nearly every day. Sometimes with a dash of chocolate powder just to change things up a bit. Since it's not a "dessert" it's not quite the same thing, but it's definitely tasty. I've thought about presenting it in a different incarnation as a cold dessert soup. Don't know if I can convert enough people into "dessert soup" to really get the ball rolling though. Maybe if I made a website. So even with all this daily blending I don't have a fancy malt machine (the dedicated milkshake machines). I do use what's arguably the best hand-held blender you can buy for non-commercial use though. Bamix all the way. Good for smaching up all those otherwise "solids" I use as well. Bruno
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#228560 - 28/07/2004 01:46
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Irony would be if a man played the lottery every week, keeping his ticket and not winning. This week, thinking it will be the same-old same-old, he throws away the (winning) ticket. Or similar: plays the same numbers every week. Doesn't play them this week and they come up. Chance yes. Irony yes. Irony is a lifetime bass fisherman getting eaten by a shark. A sword-swallower getting stabbed by someone. Irony is someone from PETA about to throw blood onto someone wearing a fur coat and then finding out it's not a someone but a live bear - that eats them. Irony is coming home late from your mistress' house and finding your wife in bed with the neighbour. If the neighbour is a woman, and they both ask you to hop in, then it's not irony. It's a fantasy. Alanis is generally really smart about her lyrics, taking time to make sure they fit well together and at the same time arduously researched for accuracy. That's sarcasm. Alanis is to intelligence what the temperature of ice is to the centigrade scale. Less than zero. Really, "idiot" is being too polite. Bruno
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#228561 - 28/07/2004 02:53
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Ever had a chocolate malt ball? Same same.
edit: I just finished reading the rest of the posts. I'm going to he-double-ell for making my milkshakes taste like ...
Edited by gbeer (28/07/2004 03:07)
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#228562 - 28/07/2004 03:56
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Okay, like I generally do when I'm having a grammar/language discussion, I'll go running to mommy I'll see what a research editor has to say about this and let you know (if anyone cares ). I tend to think Bitt's definition is the "generally accepted use of the word," but I'll see what research can bring up.
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Matt
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#228563 - 28/07/2004 04:55
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I tend to think Bitt's definition is the "generally accepted use of the word," but I'll see what research can bring up.
I'm wondering if we are running into "regional" differences of what is meant by ironic. I have never heard anyone in the UK defend most of the situations in the song as being ironic.
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#228564 - 28/07/2004 06:15
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I dunno what it is, but I find this thread brilliant. Quote:
As long as we can all agree that a chocolate milkshake is made with vanilla ice cream and chocolate syrup and not just chocolate ice cream
Absolutely not - a chocolate milkshake should have no ice cream in it at all, just milk and chocolate...lots of chocolate. And in my humble opinion (researched across the world for many years) only the UK version of Cadburys chocolate powder will do!
Quote:
All this "chocolate-on-chocolate" action is getting me...hungry
Mmmmm - chocolate!
Quote:
...
Not ironic.
...
Not ironic.
...
I would agree with Andy and Bitt - definitely not Ironic.
Quote:
Alanis is to intelligence what the temperature of ice is to the centigrade scale. Less than zero. Really, "idiot" is being too polite.
Hahahahahahaha
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#228565 - 28/07/2004 07:23
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
I have never heard anyone in the UK defend most of the situations in the song as being ironic.
Yeah, watching Americans argue over the meaning of "ironic" is like watching Americans argue over the best chocolate -- oh wait...
Peter
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#228566 - 28/07/2004 07:31
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: andy]
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enthusiast
Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
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There's an Irish comedian called Ed Byrne, and earlier in his career he did a routine about this very subject. This thread reminded me of it, so I had a bit of a google and here it is. Quote:
"I love that bit of musical parody. I'd love to see them do like a musical parody of Ironic by Alanis Morrisette, they could do a really wacky version with some irony in it.That would be an odd notion wouldn't it?
Cause that song really gets to me for that very reason cause she wrote a song about irony and filled them with things that were supposed to be ironic and none of them were. they were all just unfortunate. I always think that song should have been called 'Unfortunate'. The only ironic thing about that song is that it's called Ironic and it's written by someone who doesn't know what irony is. Fairly ironic when you think about it.
I'm going to coin a new word which is 'alanic', that's things that aren't ironic but you might think they were if you were a dozy Canadian bint
I'm not being harsh, if you actually listen to the lyrics to the song. "Like a traffic jam when you're already late"- that's not ironic it's just a pain in the hole that's what that is. When was the last time you were late for something, got stuck in a traffic jam and said "Look on the irony on this, there's irony for ya. I'll tell ya I was in a fierce ironic traffic jam the other day I'll tell ya. The irony was ninety."
No, there's nothing ironic about being stuck in a traffic jam when you're late for something. Unless you're a town planner. If you were a town planner and you were on your way to a seminar of town planners at which you were giving a talk on how you solved the problem of traffic congestion in your area, couldn't get to it because you were stuck in a traffic jam, that'd be well ironic, I'm sorry I'm late you'll never guess.
"It's like rain on your wedding day", only if marrying a weatherman and he set the date. I could go on and I will.
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break, that's inconsiderate office management. A no-smoking sign in a cigarette factory- irony. It's not a difficult concept Alanis. It's very rare you see a ironic no-smoking sign although if you ever see one of those that say thank-you for not smoking and you are. Fairly ironic
The best line in that song has got to be the line "It's like 10 000 spoons when all you need is a knife." That's not ironic that's just bloody stupid. How big is your sink Alanis? We haven't got 10 000 spoons between us have we? What do you need this knife for? To stab the bloke who keeps leaving spoons all over your house. But we'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Imagine you needed a knife for something, couldn't find one cause all you find was 10 000 spoons, could happen. And therefore you couldn't do whatever it was you needed the knife for then the next day it turned out that a spoon would have done."
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#228567 - 28/07/2004 08:49
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Geoff]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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This thread is very surrealistic when read in flat mode. Just a casual observation.
Real melted chocolate is a good thing. I personally prefer standard block chocolate from my local chocolate factory, melted in a microwave or double boiler. Hershey's syrup is okay, but it is just not the same... It does bring back memories though, and you cannot fight a memory.
Vanilla ice cream. I personally prefer the microbatch style French Vanilla variations - when there is enough vanilla to turn the ice cream slightly yellow / tan. If not, a bit of vanilla extract (or fresh vanilla bean if you have it handy) is also good.
Malt powder for me, but it is not for everyone.
Milk. Don't even think about using skim or lowfat milk for this. It would be like drinking decaf espresso - why bother...
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#228568 - 28/07/2004 12:22
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: pgrzelak]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/08/2000
Posts: 351
Loc: chicago
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Quote:
Vanilla ice cream. I personally prefer the microbatch style French Vanilla variations - when there is enough vanilla to turn the ice cream slightly yellow / tan.
It's not the vanilla in French Vanilla that lends the color to the final product, it's the egg yolks. A typical recipe to make a half-gallon batch calls for 6 whole eggs, and another 12 yolks. The result is a custard-style ice cream, which is much different from Philadelphia-style ice creams that contain no eggs. Which style is "better" is a debate that borders on the religious.
--Dan.
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#228569 - 28/07/2004 16:02
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Quote:
Absolutely not - a chocolate milkshake should have no ice cream in it at all, just milk and chocolate...lots of chocolate.
You are incorrect: that is chocolate milk, not a milkshake whatsoever.
-Zeke
Dare I bring up the difference between a milkshake and a frappe? (No - there isn't one; it's a sprinkles/jimmies thing.)
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#228570 - 28/07/2004 16:10
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1919
Loc: London
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Quote:
a chocolate milkshake should have no ice cream in it at all, just milk and chocolate...lots of chocolate. And in my humble opinion (researched across the world for many years) only the UK version of Cadburys chocolate powder will do!
I'd agree with you if you said Nesquik chocolate powder
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#228571 - 28/07/2004 16:14
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Quote:
Absolutely not - a chocolate milkshake should have no ice cream in it at all, just milk and chocolate...lots of chocolate.
You are incorrect: that is chocolate milk, not a milkshake whatsoever.
-Zeke
Dare I bring up the difference between a milkshake and a frappe? (No - there isn't one; it's a sprinkles/jimmies thing.)
In Boston, milk and flavoring is a milkshake; milk, ice cream, and flavoring is a frappe. Elsewhere in the US, what they call frappes are milkshakes and there is not really any product equivalent to what they call a milkshake. End of story.
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#228572 - 28/07/2004 17:37
Re: Ultimate chocolate milkshake?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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"Frappe: In Boston and eastern Massachusetts, this is what the rest of the country calls a "milkshake," which is a drink traditionally made with ice cream, milk, and syrup, and beaten on a milkshake mixing machine.
Milkshake: 1. In most of the country, this is a drink traditionally made with ice cream, milk, and syrup, and beaten on a milkshake mixing machine (see also "frappe"). 2. In Boston and eastern Massachusetts, it is a drink made with milk and syrup (no ice cream), and beaten on a milkshake mixing machine. It is light and frothy, not creamy and thick like the drink described in definition #1.
Source: Herrell's Dictionary: Ice Cream from A to Z! "
Bitt - sorry!
-Zeke
further reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/frappe
Edited by Ezekiel (28/07/2004 17:39)
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