#231905 - 27/09/2004 20:03
Re: Success with Auto EQ!
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I think John Graley did the AutoEQ stuff... maybe he can carry the torch? 
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Brad B.
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#231906 - 27/09/2004 20:18
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Yeah, and that is normal.
Q is defined as Fc/Fh-Fl. Fh and Fl are defined as -3dB points. As soon as you boost beyone +3dB you're boosting outside of that range. For a Q=1, Fc=25Hz, those -3dB points are going to be approximately 17Hz and 42Hz. (Estimate - It centers on a logarithmic frequency scale.)
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#231907 - 27/09/2004 20:49
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Do negative gain values "pull down" frequencies around it?
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Brad B.
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#231908 - 27/09/2004 21:12
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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Yeah, same curve inverted.
Incidentally, the reason why Auto EQ boosts the 25Hz range so much is that very few setups have much response there at all. I just tweaked Laura's amp settings (professionally installed and totally screwed up...LOL), and in doing so set the sub crossover down to 40Hz for a while - there is very little down there at all - even with a 10" Boston Sub. I figure that anyone without a sub hasn't a chance of getting a response at 25Hz, and Auto EQ should be able to handle that scenario. (If no reasonable 25Hz response is found set flat rather than chasing one)
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
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#231909 - 27/09/2004 21:35
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
(If no reasonable 25Hz response is found set flat rather than chasing one)
Good idea. Or have two versions of AutoEQ - one for setups with a sub and one without.
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Brad B.
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#231910 - 27/09/2004 21:44
Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Does anyone know how to manually adjust the EQ? I didn't come across instructions in the FAQ. I figured out how to adjust the levels for each band, I just don't know how to adjust the frequencies and the Q setting.. Do I use the remote?
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Brad B.
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#231911 - 27/09/2004 21:47
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Yup, you use the remote.
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#231912 - 27/09/2004 22:26
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Does anyone know how to manually adjust the EQ? I didn't come across instructions in the FAQ. I figured out how to adjust the levels for each band, I just don't know how to adjust the frequencies and the Q setting.. Do I use the remote?
If I recall, the front panel also works. You get to the frequencies and the Q by doing the knob-press. You can glean how to do it from looking at the button press functions in the button guide.
Looks like I have to update that guide to include the knob press function when in the EQ editor. I've got it for the remote, not for the knob.
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#231913 - 27/09/2004 22:27
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Okay, I found that the Visuals button toggles between Gain, Frequency and Q but I can't get the thing to select a frequencies below 50Hz...  .
Rob, I noticed I did a few things differantly than you...
a) I never selected the AutoEQ playlist - the player was able to queue these up on it's own based on the tags.
b) I locked my Right and Left channels... I think that's why I was getting fewer pops and clicks.
I just re-ran the test with the channels independant and the results were pretty interesting! I wonder which is more exact since during real playback, the speakers' output would seem to effect one another.
BUG? On AC power, I can select my in-car presets (they have the proper new names) but they are all set to Flat. When I get back in the car, the values are there again.
Edit: This sucks... the EQ settings do not transfer between car and home for both 2.00 and 3.00. This means I have to sit in the car and adjust these by hand... Still can't figure out why my EQ won't go below 50Hz.
Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (27/09/2004 22:39)
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Brad B.
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#231914 - 27/09/2004 22:39
Re: Success with Auto EQ!
[Re: schofiel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Quote:
Given that Rob was the initiator in many cases for recent releases, I can't see much happening from now on, unforch
That'd be a real shame I had hoped v3 would at least turn into a reasonably solid beta. It appears that alpha 9 is DOA, 8 isn't publicly available, and 7 has plenty of issues of its own. Any of the remaining crew able to comment on the likelihood of at least getting a reasonably stable version 3 out before everyone that knows anything about it wanders off to do their own thing?
-Mike (morning the potential end of an era)
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#231915 - 27/09/2004 22:40
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
but I can't get the thing to select a frequencies below 50Hz...
Yeah, because they changed it so that you wouldn't manually induce the same clipping problem that Genixia just described. 
On the plus side, the EQ details are saved the same way in version 2.0 as they are in version 3.0. You could go back to one of the older 2.0 betas before they limited the EQ, make your changes, then go back to whatever version you wanted to stick with. The EQ settings would then continue to work, as long as you never went in and re-edited that band.
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#231916 - 27/09/2004 22:46
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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So all of these bands from AutoEQ are not possible w. 2.00final... Band 1: 25Hz, Q=1.33 Band 2: 40Hz, Q=1.33 Band 3: 63Hz, Q=1.33 There goes the idea of having a spare player to run AutoEQ on and then manually entering those values into a 2.00Final player. Is having the in-car and at-home EQ's different by design as well? They keep the same names assigned to the preset number, so it seems odd.
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Brad B.
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#231917 - 27/09/2004 22:52
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
You could go back to one of the older 2.0 betas before they limited the EQ, make your changes, then go back to whatever version you wanted to stick with.
Do EQ settings survive player upgrades?
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Brad B.
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#231918 - 28/09/2004 00:27
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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enthusiast
Registered: 26/01/2002
Posts: 278
Loc: Massachusetts,USA
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Nothing to add except some questions.
It appears that a lot of settings(balance,bass,treble,auto volume,etc.)need to be set at their respective neutral position in order to prevent bad things from happening.(clicks,pops,blown speakers)
Would it be possible to boot the player in a "safe mode" with these controls at their neutral position?And then do the autoEQ.Or do it in Hijack?For instance.."if microphone 1 then set all controls to neutral"type of config.
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MIKE 80Gb RIO
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#231919 - 28/09/2004 01:08
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: newguy1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Yes, it would be nice if AutoEQ would be smart enough to set these values at 0, but to be honest, the more I think about it, having the fader and balance controls adjusted so that the speakers have equal volume at the driver's position should do no harm and in fact should be preferred. I'm also beginning to thnk that locking the Left and Right channels in the EQ should be prefered since the acoustic energy coming from each speaker (and their effect on one another) has an effect on the perceived sound of your ears.
The crucial ones to turn off at the ones that actively effect the sound:
Player Loudness
Stereo Seperation
Auto Volume Adjust
Crossfade
Pitchbend
Beep Level
as well as... Repeat
Random
HiJackBass
Treble
VolAdjust
Left/Right Time Alignment
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Brad B.
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#231920 - 28/09/2004 01:50
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Is having the in-car and at-home EQ's different by design as well?
Yes.
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#231922 - 28/09/2004 13:39
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Answering my own questions here I see! Quote:
Although the upgrade is not supposed to hurt your music files or player settings, it might be a good idea to note a few things on paper before upgrading to a new version: Your equalizer preset details, loudness setting, dimmer setting, and radio station presets. In most cases these will not be harmed, but it doesn't hurt to be safe.
Let's hope they are saved.
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Brad B.
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#231923 - 29/09/2004 16:04
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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It's not a bug, the house/car EQ presets are completely independent. Why would you want to use an EQ preset generated in one limited listening environment (in the car) in another completely different one?
Clicks and pops seemed to happen with high gain.
If you cannot select below 50 Hz then it is likely that the interactions between the various wavebands (Q and fc) means that the "envelope" generated by each band's output filter interacting with their adjacent neighbours means that there is no need for 50Hz band compensation.
However, it could also be that if you have a band on the equaliser displayed with an fc of 50 Hz, and the UI prevents you from accessing it to manipulate it, then it's a BUG.
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#231924 - 29/09/2004 16:06
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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The 50hz thing was a change they made just before 2.0 final. After 2.0 final, you can't edit a band center to any value lower than 50hz.
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#231925 - 29/09/2004 20:12
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
I t's not a bug, the house/car EQ presets are completely independent. Why would you want to use an EQ preset generated in one limited listening environment (in the car) in another completely different one?
It just seems that with as many presets we can have, you'd be able to view all of them at once. I guess what threw me off was that I had renamed Preset 2 as "AutoEQ1" and it was still called "AutoEQ1" while in the home. Anyway, it's not a big deal.
Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (29/09/2004 20:12)
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Brad B.
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#231926 - 29/09/2004 20:59
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
and it was still called "AutoEQ1" while in the home. Anyway, it's not a big deal.
Feature request, then: the screen should display (home) or (car) after the name.
Or the EQ presets should be stored so that you can have one preset chosen for the car, and another, differently named, preset chosen for the home.
As opposed to the current way, where the home/car presets are different sides of the same coin, as it were.
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-- roger
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#231927 - 29/09/2004 21:14
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31602
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
the screen should display (home) or (car) after the name
And this is useful, how?
If the player is on, and you're in the house, it's home. If the player is on, and you're in the car, it's car. Why do you need to waste screen space to tell you where you're sitting?
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#231928 - 29/09/2004 21:20
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Well, I had partial repeated sucess last night, the really important thing seemed to be the volume, I had done previous autoeqs at a comfortable listening volume, this seems to be too much, either that or my idea of comfortable listening volume is too loud. Anyway, I turned it down and tried it and managed three or four reasonable runs, a few minor clicks and pops but nothing too bad.
I'll run it again when I get round to replacing my knackered HF driver. Should be some interesting results, the curve I got certainly sounds good, but my imaging is currently way off track.
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Andy M
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#231929 - 29/09/2004 22:09
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Good man, glad to hear you got it going. Mine also went nuts with high gain. Another success to chalk up!
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#231930 - 30/09/2004 00:44
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Hm. scratchlib was going to know how to dump and load eq settings. Another project I should finish.
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#231931 - 30/09/2004 00:45
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Please, please! 
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Brad B.
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#231932 - 30/09/2004 00:48
Re: Adjusting EQ Settings
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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I even looked at it in Cincy, because we AutoEQ'd my car with genixia's player... I'll try to get to it soon.
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#231933 - 10/10/2004 17:48
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I've been reading up on this (or trying to) and I keep coming across explanations of Parametric EQs where the Q represents an exact range of frequencies rather than a general shape of a curve. One site even had an interactive Flash thingy where you could play with the gains, center frequency and Q value and the results would be shown in real time on a graph. No matter how high I boosted the gain, the beginning and ending frequencies were always the same. I've been trying for 30 minutes to find that link and I can't ... it was for a main stream car audio manufacturer that was demonstrating this feature on their mono-sub amp.
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Brad B.
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#231934 - 11/10/2004 05:48
Re: Experiences with Auto EQ
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Were they perhaps showing the frequencies manifesting the -3dB points relative to the centre frequency / max boost point? Those frequencies are fixed (as the definitions of Q I've seen all have been Q = Fc / (Fh - Fl) ie center frequency divided by high minus low border (-3dB) frequency). But from your description it sounds like they (at least intended to) showed a curve for the total frequency response... If you ignore the -3dB definition of the Fh and Fl, you would get the behaviour of the graph that you describe... But the real affected frequency range (if boost <> 3dB) - compared to the "normal" level - is smaller or larger, depending on boost. At least from what I learned in school and what I've ever seen elsewhere too... Example: this page, from a site I've found to be quite good. Not sure what happens when you go to low centre frequencies and also low Q though...
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/Michael
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