#234382 - 20/09/2004 23:11
Star Wars on DVD
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Yup, they're changed again, and yup I bought them. They'll arrive in a week and I can't wait to sit down and watch them all back to back even if they aren't the movies of my youth. In the list of new changes they changed the "Greedo Shoots First" so that now greedo just barely shoots first, like that's supposed to fix Han's character arc. Whatever. Anyway, in honor of that I have to post this link: Top 10 Things that Han Shot that Didn't Shoot First
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#234383 - 20/09/2004 23:59
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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And didn't the movie theater ticket sales of Titanic still overcome all the Star Wars movies and all their rereleases (and rerereleases??)?
(yes, I do personally find that to be false because the movie industry never seems to account for inflation in ticket sales price; in this case between 1977 and 1997.)
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#234385 - 21/09/2004 00:25
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#234387 - 21/09/2004 01:27
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
with a rundown of the major changes.
All that bullshit they changed, and (assuming that change list is comprehensive) they still haven't fixed two of the most egregious problems, ones that were tailor-made for digital correction. 1) The too-visible "emperor's slugs" at the end of Jedi, and 2) The transparent speeder window frames in Empire.
Those were both a result of a poorly-managed telecine transfer overexposing an optically-composited image. You'd think they'd be the first on the list to be re-composited digitally, along with all the other stuff they were re-compositing.
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#234388 - 21/09/2004 01:31
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
2) The transparent speeder window frames in Empire.
They fixed that in the older Special Edition rerelease. I remember doing a video editing project at the time and including why it happened in the first place.
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#234389 - 21/09/2004 01:32
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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veteran
Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1495
Loc: US: CA
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Quote:
...(assuming that change list is comprehensive)...
I don't believe it is. It's just some of the more recognizable changes. It says at the top:
Here are a few examples of the major differences between the 1997 Special Editions of the Star Wars films and the new 2004 DVD Editions. This doesn't include minor changes and sound mix changes.
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Donato MkII/080000565 MkIIa/010101253 ricin.us
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#234390 - 21/09/2004 02:21
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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They've since retconned the Emperor's slugs, IIRC, in some of the novels as being something to do with his Force powers, like some physical manifestation or creatures that feed on his emanations or some such bullsh it.
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Bitt Faulk
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#234391 - 21/09/2004 02:45
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Oh you've got to be kidding me. Altering the canon to cover up a telecine transfer error?
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#234392 - 21/09/2004 02:48
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: ricin]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I don't believe it is. It's just some of the more recognizable changes.
Well, we can hope they fixed that stuff up, then. If so, I could almost stomach all the Greedo changes and the Han-steps-on-Jabba bit.
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#234393 - 21/09/2004 02:59
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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First, I could be totally wrong. I could swear I remember this, though, from one of the fairly few SW novels I've read.
Second, you have to keep in mind that most of the Star Wars fans out there never saw RotJ on the big screen, but only on video, and all of those video transfers have had the slugs. Even those of us who did see it on the big screen have seen it many more times, and obviously much more recently, on those same video transfers.
Third, if they did retcon those slugs into canon, then that would explain why they left them there in the Special Edition. Of course, my preferred reason for that is that they ran out of time and just didn't get to it.
I also seem to remember that they were there on the big screen Special Edition RotJ, and there wouldn't have been any telecine action there at all. Of course, there could be similar errors from when they scanned the entire film into the computer. I don't know if a telecine-like device would be used there or not.
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Bitt Faulk
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#234394 - 21/09/2004 04:57
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I also seem to remember that they were there on the big screen Special Edition RotJ, and there wouldn't have been any telecine action there at all. Of course, there could be similar errors from when they scanned the entire film into the computer. I don't know if a telecine-like device would be used there or not.
That's exactly what happened in the big-screen ROTJ SE... The whole film was remastered digitally, but the transfer from the negatives (whether it was actually via telecine or laser-scan) had the problems of showing the composites much worse than the original theatrical release.
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#234395 - 21/09/2004 12:15
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: ricin]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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What? They didn't Photoshop out all of the '70's-era sideburns from A New Hope in an attempt to bring it up to speed?
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#234396 - 21/09/2004 14:02
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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We get our copies of the DVD and THX 1138 today, as soon as i get my ass to work. We already saw a bit of the bonus disc and it's pretty damn awesome. The documentary that is. Really well done and reveals a lot of stuff I never knew. If I remember correctly, they interview 40 people from Star Wars. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/film.qa.george.lucas.ap/index.htmlThat is a link to an interview with George on why he did the changes he did. May shed some light on it for those pissed that he tinkered with their beloved. I guess it's somewhat settling to know he has a shred of artistic integrity left. Heh.
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#234397 - 21/09/2004 14:28
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
We already saw a bit of the bonus disc and it's pretty damn awesome. The documentary that is. Really well done and reveals a lot of stuff I never knew.
Was that "Empire of Dreams"? If so, they showed it on A&E last week. Very cool.
My favorite comments were the ones by Carrie Fisher:
"We used to tell him, 'you can type this stuff, George, but you can't say it."
"You're not famous until you're a Pez dispenser."
"They said they'd give me the role under the condition that I went to a fat-farm and lost ten pounds. I guess they were thinking it'd come out five here, and five here." <gesturing at her cheeks>
It was also interesting seeing the casting footage of Kurt Russel reading for Han, and Cindy Williams reading for Leia.
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#234399 - 21/09/2004 14:56
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
It was also interesting seeing the casting footage of Kurt Russel reading for Han, and Cindy Williams reading for Leia.
Who were both terrible. However, William Katt reading for Luke was quite good.
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Bitt Faulk
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#234400 - 21/09/2004 15:03
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
All his choices seem driven entirely by greed.
Well, not all of them. If that were the case, he'd have released two sets, one with the SE and another with the originals. That would get people like me to buy them (who won't now -- I've got my LaserDisc copies, thanks) and cause others to buy both sets.
I think in many cases, he's really making artistic decisions; it's just that in almost every case, it's the wrong one.
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Bitt Faulk
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#234401 - 21/09/2004 15:17
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Funny you should mention the Laserdiscs: his oft-mentioned reasoning for delaying the release of the DVDs for 7.5 years was "I got burned on the Laserdiscs, and I'm not letting that happen again." I can agree with you that his artistic instincts have proven to be as unfortunate for his many fans as his business-driven ones.
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-- DLF
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#234402 - 21/09/2004 15:22
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
That is a link to an interview with George on why he did the changes he did. May shed some light on it for those pissed that he tinkered with their beloved. I guess it's somewhat settling to know he has a shred of artistic integrity left. Heh.
I understand every change he made except the Greedo thing. In all honesty, I think Jedi's SE is better, largely because they cut out so much of the Ewok party scene at the end.
However, the Greedo thing is egregious and does not fit with his "this is the movie I would have made if I was able" argument. First, he certainly had the technology to make Greedo's pistol work back in the 70s. Everyone else's pistol worked. Second, he obviously did not frame the scene for Greedo to shoot and miss. If he had, he wouldn't have put Greedo two feet away from Han, making the pistol misfire so badly as to have the beam come out of it at a 30 degree angle so it would miss. Hell, he could have done something as simple as having someone bump into Greedo's chair. Third, it still ruins Han's character in the first movie. He was an absolute scoundrel. We had no inclination that he'd come back at the end to save Luke. This makes him seem like a much better person from the get-go.
Now, that doesn't mean that I don't have complaints about the rest of the stuff that was added. It was obviously rushed for one thing. The new animations on Tatooine are stiff and awkward. They didn't correct obvious things, like the Emperor's slugs and the transparent snowspeeders. Also, there was a lot more abject silliness, like stepping on Jabba's tail.
I suspect that the reason that his whole attitude about the films changed between Empire and Jedi is that he had kids. All of a sudden it had to be all about entertaining children instead of making an entertaining movie that could be appreciated by children. It's like the difference between Warner Brothers Looney Tunes cartoons and the terrible kids-only cartoons they make these days.
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Bitt Faulk
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#234403 - 21/09/2004 15:31
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
Was that "Empire of Dreams"? If so, they showed it on A&E last week. Very cool.
Yes, PLUS another hour of footage apparently.
As for the rest of it, believe me, i'll be the last one to defend Lucas. I'm getting laid off in 2 weeks after all. hah!
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#234404 - 21/09/2004 15:34
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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OUCH! That was the first I read about that. Sorry about that...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#234405 - 21/09/2004 15:35
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: pgrzelak]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I thought he'd posted on the BBS about it before?
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#234406 - 21/09/2004 15:42
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Yeah, I didn't know about that one either. Sucks.
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#234407 - 21/09/2004 15:44
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I probably missed it - my reading has been a bit erratic lately.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#234409 - 21/09/2004 15:51
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Probably the most egregious change (aside from Greedo shooting first) has to be the replacement of Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost with that of Hayden Christiansen. Ugh. I'm surprised that they didn't replace Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor while they were at it.
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#234410 - 21/09/2004 16:03
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
OUCH! That was the first I read about that. Sorry about that...
Actually i'm not sure if i had mentioned it. I think i mentioned that there was a big round of layoffs, but i wasn't in that one. This is the end all be all of layoffs... 4/5 of the company is gone. Lucasarts is starting over from close to scratch, new structure and all. Don't go passing that on to any game forums, i probably shouldn't even be posting it. Thanks for the condolences.
Anyhow... i'll probably start another thread about it soon so as not to muck this one up. I might be needing some life advice from you old timers 
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#234411 - 21/09/2004 16:04
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Actually, if they'd done Hayden and Ewan, it would have made sense. But just doing one of them is odd.
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#234412 - 21/09/2004 16:34
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
I understand every change he made except the Greedo thing.
Yes. My feelings exactly.
Quote:
However, the Greedo thing is egregious and does not fit with his "this is the movie I would have made if I was able" argument.
Once again, exactly my thoughts. In fact I'll second your entire post.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#234413 - 21/09/2004 19:49
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Quote:
This is the end all be all of layoffs... 4/5 of the company is gone. Lucasarts is starting over from close to scratch, new structure and all. Don't go passing that on to any game forums, i probably shouldn't even be posting it. Thanks for the condolences.
I heard something about that someplace yesterday (I think it was Xplay on techtv) They said Lucasarts wouldn't be doing anymore games internally ?
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Matt
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#234414 - 21/09/2004 19:59
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Quote:
They said Lucasarts wouldn't be doing anymore games internally
Not true, they definitely will be. We've been hearing some funny ones lately. The best being that Lucas is outsourcing all of the animation and effects to his new Singapore studio. Nope.
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#234415 - 22/09/2004 21:18
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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So... I haven't seen the DVDs yet, probably won't actually buy them until Christmas-ish. Anyone able to report whether the Emperor's slugs are fixed or not?
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#234416 - 22/09/2004 21:20
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Also, something I whipped up today. Source "to the tune of" should become obvious very quickly:
(Told from the point of view of a project manager at
a certain little company in San Rafael, CA, sometime
in the mid-1990's...)
"My vision was too big for its time," he said to me,
"there were too many limits technologically.
I've got this burning need to fix my trilogy.
There must be... fifty ways to change my movie."
I said, "I don't think that's a good idea, dude.
Furthermore, all of your loyal fans will think they're getting screwed.
But I'll concede your point, 'cause clearly no one disagrees with *you*,
there must be... fifty ways to change your movie.
Fifty ways to change your movie."
(Chorus:)
Ya just clean up the mattes, Pat
Make a new song, John
Then add some more bots, Dot
Just do as I say
Speeder gets fixed, Dix
I think we need a new sound mix!
Add a launch bay, Kay
Just do it my way
Ooo, step on his tail, Gail
Max Rebo's new band, Stan
Add Blue to Artoo, Stu
Don't ask yourself why
Add a new slave, Dave
The planets need a new shockwave!
More ships in the sky, Sly
Kiss the old films goodbye
I said, "those changes are too goofy and arcane.
And I must say... showing Greedo shooting first is just insane."
He said, "You're wrong about that... Han can't seem inhumane,
at least not nowadays."
And then he ordered me to start the work that night.
I suppose it could be worse, he could remake them all outright.
And though it's too bad... ILM can't fix the fact that he can't *write*,
I guess there's... fifty ways to change the movie.
Fifty ways to change the movie.
(Chorus)
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#234417 - 22/09/2004 21:28
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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*applause!!!*
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#234419 - 23/09/2004 14:03
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: tfabris]
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old hand
Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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So has anyone seen the new DVD trilogy, now? If so, how did you like the changes? CNN has an article on some of the changes.
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- trs
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#234420 - 23/09/2004 15:38
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: trs24]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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#234421 - 23/09/2004 16:15
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: trs24]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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I am sorry to admit that I had this on preorder at buy.com since the announcement  Only got to half way through Empire so far. Overall the quality of the image and sound is really good. As for the mods specifically, most of them have a much more 'connected' feel to them. Especially compared to the original re-release if you can call it that. But even now, some of the added beasts etc still look fake. I suppose the better quality of the DVD allows you to see some of the things that the VCR would hide. Having seen these movies so many times you can see so much more in every scene, even for the untouched ones. I will get to Jedi this weekend.
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the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#234422 - 23/09/2004 20:55
Re: Star Wars on DVD
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Just received mine and watched the first little bit. I'd say the enhancements are a definite improvement over the first set, though the Greedo scene is still stupid both for the plot and the fact that Greedo can't shoot. Han now shifts over a millimeter which I suppose is sposed to make him a more difficult target to hit, but come on! And Han still steps on Jabba's tail, though I must admit Jabba looks much more realistic now. That goes for just about all of the added graphics so far. They are far more seemless and less distracting in these versions.
So I'm relatively pleased. Now that I'm through my two least favorite additions it should be clear sailing until Anakin's ghost shows up.
Oh, and of course it looks and sounds great (through my headphones). Unfortuntly I don't have a great sound system so I'll have to wait until this weekend to really test out the 5.1 on my friend's setup. I have little doubt it will be an awesome experience.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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cool link. Lucas is holding 5 of the top twenty and ILM supplied the work for I don't know how many others.
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