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#238773 - 24/10/2004 20:14 Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
If not, fast forward to Ashlee Simpon's first musical performance... Notice what song she is singing. Then fast forward to her 2nd performance and enjoy the show!
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Brad B.

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#238774 - 24/10/2004 20:27 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
mschrag
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
When I was watching the first one, the only thing I kept thinking was "Man, she's totally lip syncing that ... That's so lame." Then of course the second one starts. I love the vocals of her singing when she's not even speaking. Nice touch.

Makes me wonder if she can even sing at all or if it's all studio tricks to make her on-key, etc.

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#238775 - 24/10/2004 20:30 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
The Central Guy
enthusiast

Registered: 18/03/2002
Posts: 225
Loc: San Diego, California USA
I'm in San Diego and we got an edited segment on the second song with the false start lip sync lyrics taken out. It was hard to understand what was going on (with the dance moves and all). I had read about it on another board and what they showed the west coast didn't make sense until I saw a clip of the east coast segment...

Makes me wonder if Lorne Michaels and Co. knew about the lip sync in advance or whether they were surprised as well.

Someone else on another board said that they have used the dress rehearsal version for the west coast when something like this goes wrong, so that makes me wonder why they didn't. Getting even, maybe?

Oh well, there's even something funny with the lyrics of the first song for the first few seconds. It sounds like maybe they played lip sync lyrics (so it sounds doubled for a bit) and then she took off on her own? Not sure about that one...

But a very interesting situation. We've come a long way from the days like when Sinead tore up a photo of the pope (that was real live!).....

Randy
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#238776 - 24/10/2004 20:53 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: The Central Guy]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
Quote:


Makes me wonder if Lorne Michaels and Co. knew about the lip sync in advance or whether they were surprised as well.


I don't see how they couldn't know. What was there someone hiding playing a tape ?
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Matt

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#238777 - 24/10/2004 22:53 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
RobotCaleb
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Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin

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#238778 - 25/10/2004 00:01 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: RobotCaleb]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Uh, weird. Was that the first or second performance? What was the other?
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#238779 - 25/10/2004 00:27 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: wfaulk]
The Central Guy
enthusiast

Registered: 18/03/2002
Posts: 225
Loc: San Diego, California USA
That was the live east coast second performance. The lyrics that come out are from the first song that was done earlier...

That's why it's so weird that she blames her band at the final curtain call for playing the wrong song because I think the lyrics came on first (from the first performance) and then the band started to play along...

As someone else said on another board, I bet that was a quiet bus ride to the next gig...
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#238780 - 25/10/2004 00:31 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
...oops
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#238781 - 25/10/2004 00:31 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: mschrag]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Err.. If you guys don't mind me asking, what was it that was causing you to be paying attention to her musical performances in the first place?
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#238782 - 25/10/2004 00:37 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
The only thing I know about ashlEE Simpson is that commercial I happened to see for her "behind the scenes of her debut SUPER HIT ALBUM!" thing a while back. Half of the 30 second commercial was her in the studio struggling to sing a line from her song, ending with her whining about how she hates the song.

Memo to all teenies and people who think modern pop is actually music (of course, that's probably nobody reading this): Real musicians actually know the song before they go into the studio.

When will America wake up and get sick of these just-add-water disposable pop stars that the music industry churns? At least credit the people who do the real work on these albums, the producers and recording engineers. Oh, and the airbrush artists who make these soulless sacks of flesh look "attractive".

Yet, this is coming from a guy who loves every minute of listening to a Saturday morning radio show featuring music from Motown Records; one of the original pop-star manufacturing plants in American popular music. Because hey, it's catchy, and at least those artists actually sung.
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FireFox31
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#238783 - 25/10/2004 00:38 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tonyc]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
In my defense, I read about it on the internet then went to my Tivo and rewatched the episode. I had fast forwarded through them last night.
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Brad B.

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#238784 - 25/10/2004 00:39 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Okay, you're excused.
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#238785 - 25/10/2004 01:12 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: FireFox31]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Quote:
When will America wake up and get sick of these just-add-water disposable pop stars that the music industry churns?

Never, but I have high hopes it will at least die back down and not be the focus anymore. It's always been there, it's just been more prevelant the last eight or nine years or so. It's sad when these talentless "artists" get professional songwriters and top-level studio talent. Even some of those full pop bands have professional musicians substituting in the studio. One of my favorite examples is this band Lillix. Check out the credits for their album. Yup, I count NINE drummers. One of them, Matt Chaimberlain, is one of the best rock drummers I've seen, and he has to play on crap like this.
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Matt

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#238786 - 25/10/2004 01:20 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: Dignan]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
One of them, Matt Chaimberlain, is one of the best rock drummers I've seen, and he has to play on crap like this.

Matt Chamberlain also did drums for Lisa Marie Presley, Christina Aguilera, and even played on Rosie O'Donnell's "Another Rosie Christmas." So I'd say the man is willing to bang the skins for anyone who'll pay him a decent buck.

One of the best you've seen? He's certainly a very good drummer (I love his work on the last few Tori Amos albums) but I've never heard of him talked about amongst the very elite. You sure you're not thinking Jimmy Chamberlain of Smashing Pumpkins fame?
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#238787 - 25/10/2004 02:07 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tonyc]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Hey man, don't question my music statements

Look, he's a studio drummer. If you were playing drums for a living, and didn't have a big-time band that you were a part of, you'd have to make a buck somehow. Besides, if you're a studio drummer, I'd imagine you have to be good.

Matt Chaimberlain is the drummer for one of my favorite bands, Critters Buggin. They're odd, and not likely to be hugely popular anytime soon...or ever. But if you'd see them live, you'd see he's an incredible drummer. (you have to sign up, but there's a torrent here). Still, this band probably won't be his bread winner.

I said one of the best drummers I'd seen. This does include Jimmy Chaimberlain, Dave Grohl, and Matt Cameron (hmmm, combine the first and last ones...), but I said one of.

And among his credits are also David Bowie, Elton John, Liz Phair, The Wallflowers, etc. And hey, he's on the latest William Shatner disc along with Henry Rollins!
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Matt

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#238788 - 25/10/2004 02:19 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: Dignan]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Look, he's a studio drummer. If you were playing drums for a living, and didn't have a big-time band that you were a part of, you'd have to make a buck somehow. Besides, if you're a studio drummer, I'd imagine you have to be good.

Er... Didn't I just say that??? He's playing for anyone who'll pay him a decent buck. That's what studio drummers do.

Quote:
But if you'd see them live, you'd see he's an incredible drummer.

Didn't I already say he was very good, and that I loved his work on the last few Tori albums?

Not sure why your tone is so defensive... As far as I can tell, we're in violent agreement here, and you seem to have repeated several of the things I said in my post using slightly different language. I was just making sure you had the right guy, and you do, so that's groovy.

And thanks for the AllMusic link, it's not like I had to go there to find out he played for Rosie O'Donnel or anything...
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#238789 - 25/10/2004 02:32 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tonyc]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
Hehe, I think the confusion was that text has no inflection. I thought you were being sarcastic in your post, and I thought you were criticising him for trying to make a buck. My mistake

I think it was also the Jimmy Chaimberlain comment
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Matt

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#238790 - 25/10/2004 10:46 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6322824/

FWIW, I do know that a lot of artists do use vocal tracks to "boost" their sound rather than simply lip sync. Don't know if that was what she was doing. In one of my earlier groups we had a manager who was insistent that we do that sort of thing, and we eventually fired him because I wanted no part in it. I do remember seeing the vocal group "Point of Grace" once where they performed to tracks (they had no band anyway), but there was a glich and the vocals for the next song started playing at the end of one song. Clearly they were "boosting" their vocals. The really funny thing is, they then did an completely acapella song which clearly had no "boosting" trac, and it sounded perfect.

I do think it's very telling the Ashlee felt the need to blame her band for this.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#238791 - 25/10/2004 13:32 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: JeffS]
Heather
addict

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
I do think it's very telling the Ashlee felt the need to blame her band for this.

Really? I just take that as another sign that personal responsibility is a dead concept in this country.
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Heather

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony

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#238792 - 25/10/2004 14:12 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: Heather]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Really? I just take that as another sign that personal responsibility is a dead concept in this country.
Yeah, that's actually what I was meaning to say. It seems no one is ever at fault for anything. It's really amazing anything ever goes wrong with everyone being so perfect and all.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#238793 - 25/10/2004 14:39 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: JeffS]
Cybjorg
addict

Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
Quote:
Yeah, that's actually what I was meaning to say. It seems no one is ever at fault for anything. It's really amazing anything ever goes wrong with everyone being so perfect and all.


Not really, with all those other idiots out there screwing it up. Only I'm perfect.

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#238794 - 25/10/2004 16:07 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
My two cents on the Ashlee Simpson thing...

- It's not the first time I've seen a big-name artist get caught in a lip synch. I remember a specific one of Kenny Rogers doing "Lady" at the Statue of Liberty that was rather funny.

- It does not surprise me that there was lip synching on SNL. Many other times I've seen artists on SNL who I was certain were lip synching even when they didn't make a mistake.

- Being a musician and performer, I understand the technical reasons why someone would do a lip synch on a show like SNL. But most of those reasons can be overcome with practice and professionalism, thus not requiring the lip synch.

- Doing a lip synch is a trade off. When you do it, it's a risk that you'll make a mistake and get caught. And as miss Simpson just learned the hard way, when it goes bad, it goes REALLY bad.

- Don't dis your band. No matter what you do in the music business, don't dis your band, you stuck up little rich kid. Argh. Another lesson she has (hopefully by now) learned the hard way.

- My favorite band, Rush, plays backing tracks for some of their pieces, and I've seen them get desynchronized with the backing tracks. For example, Aimee Mann's voice for the song "Time Stand Still" is done as a backing track. It's fatally embarrassing when it goes bad, but at least they keep playing through it and the rest of the song continues without incident.

- I personally have been on stage in front of an audience when something goes bad. Never did a lip synch of course, but I've been in front of large groups of people and completely forgotten lyrics or chords. Each time such a thing happens, it's a painful, scarring memory that makes me cringe to remember it. So as much as I make fun of miss Simpson, it's also painful to watch that video tape of the SNL incident because I feel a lot of sympathy for her. I've been there, and it really REALLY hurts.
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Tony Fabris

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#238795 - 25/10/2004 16:51 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Why would she blame the band anyway... i'd imagine there's a sound guy who queued up the wrong lyrics who's to blame.
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#238796 - 25/10/2004 17:11 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tfabris]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
It's not the first time I've seen a big-name artist get caught in a lip synch.

So are you implying that Ashlee is a "big-name artist" ?
...I thought she was just one of those flavor-of-the-month here-today-gone-tomorrow flash-in-the-pan pre-fabricated pop constructions that wouldn't have even made a big enough impact to qualify as worthy of a Jeopardy question ten years from now.
But then... maybe I'm not up on the current "scene."

Quote:
Many other times I've seen artists on SNL who I was certain were lip synching even when they didn't make a mistake.

Oh yeah! I remember Britney gyrating around furiously and thinking "there's no way she could be doing that and singing so smoothly at the same time."
Of course, it mattered little, since I'm sure most people decided to watch it in slow motion with the sound turned off. Come on, don't deny it, people. You know who you are.

Quote:
Don't dis your band. No matter what you do in the music business, don't dis your band, you stuck up little rich kid

Absolutely! Not instinctively knowing this is an immediate giveaway that she's a pre-fabricated construct. No rapport with the band. I doubt she even knows the names of the people in "her" band.


Quote:
Aimee Mann's voice for the song "Time Stand Still" is done as a backing track. It's fatally embarrassing when it goes bad

Yeah, and it's moderately painful even when it goes good (remember when they used to use a giant floating head projection of Aimee on the back video screen?)
But -- what else could they do? I guess their choices were (1) never perform the song live, or (2) do what they did.

Quote:
I personally have been on stage in front of an audience when something goes bad.

Yes, that's definitely no fun at all.

I just remember an old story about someone at a piano recital who was playing a piece with a section repeated in the middle. The artist forgot the 2nd ending (loop exit) and kept playing that section in a loop half a dozen times until either he/she just stopped or a piano teacher came and put him/her out of his/her misery (depending on which version of the story you hear).

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#238797 - 25/10/2004 18:15 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: music]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
remember when they used to use a giant floating head projection of Aimee on the back video screen?

Yeah, that's the MTV music video of the song. According to the Rush FAQ, Aimee's voice was supposed to come directly from the audio track of that projected film. And if the film gets desynched, Alex is supposed to step over during the choruses and trigger her voice samples from the keyboard he had tucked over Stage Right.

I can believe this, as I was at one of the concerts where the video got desynched, and I saw Al step over and handle it. I was up high in the nosebleed seats to stage right and could see the teleprompter monitors they had on the stage next to the monitor amps, and they do a little fimstrip-countdown of that backing film on those monitors, and the band is supposed to start based on that countdown, and they'd missed it.

I've also seen the song "Manhattan Project" go bad, where the middle-bridge string section (which is all one long digital sample triggered by Geddy pressing a key on his keyboard) got desynched really badly. The band kept playing right through it, and the sound guy scaled back the volume of the string section, though left it playing for continuity and fill. Sounded bad, but at least the song didn't stop. And if you look at the "Hold Your Fire" videotape, at that moment in the song where the sample is supposed to start, you see Ged look very intently at his keyboard as to not miss the cue, and also look quickly over his shoulder at Neil so they get eye contact and synch up on the downbeat to start that sample.

I've also been told a great story about the drum machine part on Don Henley's "Boys of Summer" from a friend who also happens to be Don's drum tech. I'll save that for another time.

But anyway, that's all a digression because that's not talking about lip synching. My point is that they're smart enough to only do the backing tracks as "extra bits" and to let themselves trigger the start points, because they know how bad things look when a backing tape goes wrong or when an underpaid roadie doesn't get the cue right.

Oh, yeah, one of those particularly embarrassing moments I mentioned earlier? One of them was when I ***WAS*** the underpaid roadie who was supposed to trigger the backing track from offstage. Me and the drummer didn't synch right, although I *did* make eye contact with him, I guess we just weren't on the same wavelength that night.

Having seen and been involved with those situations enough times, as an artist I will always resist putting myself into a situation where I need that kind of thing. I'd much rather embarrass myself by singing poorly or forgetting chords and lyrics than to completely ruin the performance with a technological train wreck.
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Tony Fabris

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#238798 - 25/10/2004 18:20 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: music]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
So are you implying that Ashlee is a "big-name artist" ?
...I thought she was just one of those flavor-of-the-month here-today-gone-tomorrow flash-in-the-pan pre-fabricated pop constructions that wouldn't have even made a big enough impact to qualify as worthy of a Jeopardy question ten years from now.


Unfortunately, these days, your description is the definition of "big-name artist".
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Tony Fabris

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#238799 - 25/10/2004 19:55 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tfabris]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
I personally have been on stage in front of an audience when something goes bad.
I think most people who've spent time on stage have. In fact, one of the important things if you're going to be performing a lot is to be able to handle things gracefully when things go bad. Some are better at this than others- I've known excellent performers who can, upon forgetting a lyric, sing absolute nonsense and sell it. Personally, I'm not that good at recovery- I often acknowledge the blunder (which you should never do), but at least I know that "the show must go on", no matter how stupid a thing you've done.
Quote:
Each time such a thing happens, it's a painful, scarring memory that makes me cringe to remember it.
Yeah, this is a miserable feeling. One thing I've learned hrough experience is that no matter how bad it gets, the audience always remember whatever you did last the most, so there's usually a chance to make up for whatever you've done. Of course, if you mess up your big exit I guess you're toast!

The thing with Ashlee is, she really should have been prepared for what happened. Yes it was bad, but if she and the band were really tight (as you'd expect peforming on live television) they'd have been able to pull something off. There are plenty of stories about "fatal" things happing to bands such as the sound system completely cutting out where it was handled gracefully and professionly.

Probably one of my most embarassing moments was when I was called in as a guest to lead worship at a church. Normally they had a big band with drums, electric guitar, etc. but this week it was just me. It all went great and led the congregation through several songs before the sermon. To close out, the pastor was supposed to pray and then transition gracefully into a last, very energetic worship song. So I walk up to the stage while he's praying. It's all very silent as I pickup up my guitar, and I drop my pick into it on the way up. This was how I learned to always have a backup pick with me whenever I play. So I'm standing there trying to figure out what to do; I can't very well start shaking out my guitar while all of these people are in the middle of prayer, so I just sit there terrified (this was a good size crowed, none of whom I knew). I decide as I'm standing there that I can't possibly make the song work without a pick. I could use my nails, but that just wouldn't have produced the high energy the song was supposed to have. So the pastor says "amen" and turns around to me expectantly and I flush red. I give an apologetic shrug, turn my guitar over and start shaking it like a mad fiend. Totally killed the moment for sure, and everyone got a good laugh. Of course, a good laugh isn't always a bad thing, but for me it seemed like an eternity as I shook that pick out. Of course, a year later I ended up getting hired to lead worship for the church every week, so clearly it was more difficult for me than the congregation.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#238800 - 25/10/2004 20:51 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: JeffS]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah, losing a pick or breaking a string during a performance are real tough. Had that happen enough times. Both situations are tough even when you've got backups on hand.
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Tony Fabris

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#238801 - 25/10/2004 21:40 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: loren]
morrisdl
enthusiast

Registered: 21/08/2000
Posts: 346
Loc: Rochester, NY USA
Quote:
Why would she blame the band anyway... i'd imagine there's a sound guy who queued up the wrong lyrics who's to blame.


Appearently the sound guys has become more of the band than her.
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#238802 - 25/10/2004 21:52 Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night? [Re: tfabris]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Quote:
- Being a musician and performer, I understand the technical reasons why someone would do a lip sync on a show like SNL. But most of those reasons can be overcome with practice and professionalism, thus not requiring the lip sync.


I guess in April at the Teen Choice Awards, Ashlee did a true live performance and it was very terrible. I guess the critics tore her a new one for it (which is surprising actually). So it looks like she decided to "play it safe" on SNL.
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