#238803 - 25/10/2004 21:55
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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In other words... As of the SNL gaffe, her 15 minutes are up?
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#238804 - 25/10/2004 23:14
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
Matt Chaimberlain, is one of the best rock drummers I've seen, and he has to play on crap like this.
That's the beauty of it though. Like I decided as I was going into college, "The artists come and go, but the people who make the music (studio musicians and engineers) are the ones who stay." I wanted to go to school for recording engineering, or at least get into it after college. But experiences with sound techs during college made me realize it wasn't for me; too much drudgery and not enough artistry.
But yeah, the lie and inflation of "artists" has been going on forever. I lived near the guy who wrote songs for Elvis. And did you ever read about how you'd have to get the name Count Basie or Duke Ellington as a "co-author" of your composition in order for it to sell? Heck, I've even read that guys like Mozart and Haydn were "silent partner co-authors" on some lesser composers' creations in order to get them published or played in church. Sorry, I don't have the references off hand.
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#238805 - 25/10/2004 23:19
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Yeah, losing a pick or breaking a string during a performance are real tough. Had that happen enough times. Both situations are tough even when you've got backups on hand.
Well, if you don't have a roadie or guitar tech to hand you a freshly stringed ax, your next best bet is to become as virtuosic as Paganini was back in the days of old.
Legend has it that he would intentionally fray a string or two on his violin prior to concerts -- in hope that one would blow out in the middle of a piece and he could show off by finishing it on the remaining 3. Or did he?
In more modern times, according to Snopes, rumors are not true that Itzhak Perlman has done this in public performance. (though he could, if necessary), Although, apparently, Midori once blew out half the strings on her violin during a concerto and managed to finish the piece anyway.
Now that indicates you know your instrument!
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#238806 - 25/10/2004 23:28
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: FireFox31]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
But yeah, the lie and inflation of "artists" has been going on forever.
Here's a semi-interesting rant on a similar subject.
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#238807 - 25/10/2004 23:29
Ashlee Simpson to Sing Live Again Tonight!
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Link. Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) - Singer Ashlee Simpson gets another chance to sing live - perhaps - on national television Monday after walking off "Saturday Night Live" in a does-she-or-doesn't-she lip-synch moment.
Simpson is scheduled to perform in Las Vegas for NBC's "Radio Music Awards," scheduled to be televised at 9 p.m. ET.
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Brad B.
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#238808 - 25/10/2004 23:39
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I've blown tons of strings in concerts, and usually the issue is more tuning than not being able to hit the notes. Of course, I do more strumming than soloing, so I only have to compensate in a few places. But the tuning, that'll kill ya.
As far as picks go, I actually mounted a pick holder on the back of my Takamine's head stock. That works great, and since still use it as a backup (actually as an alternate tuning instrument so I don’t have to retune in the middle of the concert- oh for a guitar tech), I still get most of the benefit in concert. Not only does my HD-28 not have enough room for a pick holder, I don't think I could bring myself to do that to such a beautiful instrument.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#238809 - 26/10/2004 00:33
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 06/03/2001
Posts: 135
Loc: Aurora, CO
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- My favorite band, Rush, plays backing tracks for some of their pieces, and I've seen them get desynchronized with the backing tracks. For example, Aimee Mann's voice for the song "Time Stand Still" is done as a backing track. It's fatally embarrassing when it goes bad, but at least they keep playing through it and the rest of the song continues without incident. Yeah, but keep in mind Geddy "Spaghetti" Lee has to play bass, keyboards, AND sing. It must've been Neal's fault. 
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#238810 - 26/10/2004 02:15
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5541
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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Although, apparently, Midori once blew out half the strings on her violin during a concerto and managed to finish the piece anyway.
Well... yes, and no.
She broke a string (E string? is that right?) and then did what is traditionally done in that situation: she appropriated the Concert Master's violin and continued. Later in the piece, she broke a string on that violin as well, and appropriated yet another violin in order to finish.
The remarkable thing is that she was only 14 years old at the time, it was her American debut (New York Philharmonic if memory serves) and she handled it with calmness and aplomb far beyond what would be expected of someone that age.
She is now recognized as being perhaps the greatest violinist currently active, and one of the greatest of all time.
tanstaafl.
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#238811 - 26/10/2004 03:54
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Stupidly I failed to record this, and so far Poopli has let me down.
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#238812 - 26/10/2004 04:00
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: Daria]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/03/2002
Posts: 225
Loc: San Diego, California USA
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I've got in on Replay via Satellite in Hi-Rez recording mode. I can send it to you, but it is the West Coast version without the vocals....Just PM me your number if you want it...Randy
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#238813 - 26/10/2004 04:08
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: The Central Guy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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I suspect the reason Poopli has let me down is the same one that will cause me to need to thank you and keep looking: I have a ReplayTV 4504, and most people have 5xxx series. (I got it just for Poopli, actually)
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#238814 - 26/10/2004 05:08
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: JeffS]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
I've blown tons of strings in concerts, and usually the issue is more tuning than not being able to hit the notes. Of course, I do more strumming than soloing, so I only have to compensate in a few places. But the tuning, that'll kill ya.
Oooh, good point. I didn't really think about that.
With a violin, a good violinist could compensate for the tuning mismatch by ear.
With a guitar (especially one with a floating bridge), you're in for a world of hurt unless you're one of the extremely rare breed of people playing fretless -- in which case your outstanding musicianship isn't in question anyway.
I saw a guitar competition TV show where one of the contestants was playing a fretless guitar. Impressive! I doubt most humans could play in-tune chords on one of these things, but he made it look easy.
Fortunately, I have yet to break a string while performing.
But I know the day will come, and I'm not looking forward to it.
On the other hand, I'm not good enough on guitar to be front-and-center, so probably no one would notice. Or so I tell myself.
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#238815 - 26/10/2004 05:14
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I saw a guitar competition TV show where one of the contestants was playing a fretless guitar.
Wow. I didn't even know such a thing existed. I'm going to do some googling.
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#238816 - 26/10/2004 05:15
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
appropriated yet another violin in order to finish.
[...]
it was her American debut (New York Philharmonic if memory serves)
Thanks for the clarification. From the source I read, I couldn't tell if it was one string twice, or two strings on one violin. So I just naturally assumed the most impressive case.  Not that it wasn't extremely impressive in any case.
Especially at only 14 years old!
Also, according to that source (Snopes) it happened at Massachusetts' Tanglewood Festival.
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#238817 - 26/10/2004 06:07
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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I have had a string go a few times - and as most of my guitars use Floyd Rose or Kahler floating trems it forces you to learn how to bend accurately - for melody lines it isn't too much of an issue, but as each string needs to be bent a different amount, chords become really good fun.
I remember once having burst a string on my main guitar so I was playing the spare while my tech was changing strings - middle of a cover of a Van Halen piece and at the end of the solo I killed the D so for about 2 bars I was figuring out how far out the other strings were, then had to play a whole verse with odd bends on before I could get time to tweak the bridge tuners.
Still, it worked right so hopefully I didn't look too much of a git for not having another spare.
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#238818 - 26/10/2004 12:26
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Ahhh well, apparently this was the first time she'd even used backing vocals. Apparently due to acid reflux. Who knows if that's true or not? An interesting thing in the article: it was the drummer who was to cue the song. Why you should make that his responsibility I have not idea, but there you go. She STILL shouldn't have blamed the band, or even him, publicly.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#238819 - 26/10/2004 14:31
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: JeffS]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Quote:
An interesting thing in the article: it was the drummer who was to cue the song. Why you should make that his responsibility I have not idea, but there you go.
Maybe the bass player didn't translate the instructions for the drummer correctly?
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#238820 - 26/10/2004 15:12
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Maybe the bass player didn't translate the instructions for the drummer correctly?
Heh. Actually, it's very common for the drummer to trigger backing samples and loops and such, since it's his job to play in synch with them.
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#238821 - 26/10/2004 15:39
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: JeffS]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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Quote:
Ahhh well, apparently this was the first time she'd even used backing vocals. Apparently due to acid reflux. Who knows if that's true or not?
Yes and the Iraq war was caused by bad intelligence. I think America is now officially the culture of excuses- no more uncertainity about this at all. Anyone have an excuse for this?
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#238822 - 26/10/2004 15:41
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: siberia37]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Anyone have an excuse for this?
We used to be Brits once upon a time?
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#238823 - 26/10/2004 16:33
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: siberia37]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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_now officially the culture of excuses_
Funny, I think your definition of 'now' needs be calibrated back a few decades. Blaming someone else for your problems has been old hat since the early 1980's.
-Zeke
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#238824 - 26/10/2004 16:37
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hm. And having to be "PC" has been around since about that time, too. Coincidence?
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#238825 - 26/10/2004 17:02
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 06/03/2001
Posts: 135
Loc: Aurora, CO
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An interesting thing in the article: it was the drummer who was to cue the song. Why you should make that his responsibility I have not idea, but there you go.
I found something along those lines when I was watching my Dream Theater "Live At Budokan" DVD. On the 2nd DVD, they show them rehearsing, and Portnoy (drummer) tells Petrucci (guitarist), "Well, you're leading me on this song." I found that odd as I always thought the drummer and bassist were the ones which kept the pace.
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#238826 - 26/10/2004 17:04
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: TheRhino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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That depends on the artist and track. Most of the time that is correct. But then you can have it the other way around. It gives a different feeling, but works quite well. And then, in extreme example, you have King Crimson's "Discipline"...
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#238827 - 26/10/2004 17:15
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: TheRhino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31572
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Depends on the piece of music. Yes, the drummer is usually responsible for keeping the tempo and is the anchor for the band, but sometimes a different instrument starts off the song or sets the pace of a given section. I seem to recall seeing the drummer for U2 talking about following the tempo of the echo effect on Edge's guitar, for example.
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#238828 - 26/10/2004 17:52
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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Quote:
Funny, I think your definition of 'now' needs be calibrated back a few decades. Blaming someone else for your problems has been old hat since the early 1980's.
i miss the days of it being her fault
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#238829 - 26/10/2004 17:53
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: TheRhino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I haven't seen the DVD, so I don't know context, but if I were a drummer and I told my guitarist that he was leading me, by that I'd mean that he was not following my rhythm and going too fast, or at least being a little ahead of the beat.
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#238830 - 26/10/2004 19:44
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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You mean the days when she's not around? [/kidding!]
Seriously, while there's certainly more room for understanding on issues such as mental health and depression etc... the level of victimhood is disgusting. I guess there's no shortage of people who can't make it past the mindset of being 12 and who will blame their situation on any number of outside factors and disempower themselves (ehem, CONGRESS during the war vote!). Really, where were the questions about intelligence then? It's one thing for Joe 6-pack to say 'Well, if he's got the intel, I guess it must be so..', and quite another for senior senators to shrug and say 'Gee, really?' without questioning sources. While I support Kerry, all the Democrats share a healthy piece of my blame pie for not piping up and just getting steamrolled by the NeoCons.
Ok. 'Nuff ranting for the day! Miss whatserface is a twit and I'm glad she got creamed for lip syncing.
I'm out.
-Zeke
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#238831 - 29/10/2004 13:15
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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#238832 - 31/10/2004 13:08
Re: Anyone see Ashlee Simpson on SNL last night?
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I just keep reading articles about this, but there's a quote in this one that I thought the rest of you might appreciate: Quote:
Simpson "has been made to be something that requires backing tracks to achieve," Hamilton says, adding that the controversy surrounding her "is a weird judgment on something that wasn't supposed to have soul in the first place. That's like complaining about dinner after someone hands you a Snickers bar."
The rest of the article talks about the over-use with auto-tuning and other tricks in the studio being brought to the live performance. Kind of interesting stuff, especially having just been through the recording process itself. What I learned was, BTW, was 1) auto-tuning is great, 2) everyone does it, 3) auto-tuning works great for backing vocals, 4) if you simply turn on auto-tuning for a lead vocal it sounds like crap, 5) tuning a lead vocal manually is almost an art form in and of itself, and 6) recording is very different from a live environment and much less forgiving- thus you have to use a few "tricks" to provide a product the audience will enjoy, only one of which is tuning vocals, none of which work if you don't actually start with something good as a base. All of that being said, while we did tune backing vocals quite a bit (for the sake of expediency- we didn't spend much time tracking them), it's key to get a good lead vocal line to start with and only tune a few places.
I'll also say that some of the "tricks" used in the studio require better musicianship than poorer musicianship- like playing acoustic parts two times in a row EXACTLY the same to give it a natural "chorus". It sounds very cool, and a lot more natural than just adding an electronic chorus, but it isn't easy making sure you play something the same twice in a row.
In the end, however, I think using so many "tricks" on a CD that you create unrealistic expectations for your live performance is not healthy. Sure we don't have all of the bells and whistles when we play live (B3 organ, string section, 3 guitars on some songs, perfectly tuned vocals), but we can play the songs well with what we do have and sing the vocals well. I don't think people are going to be disappointed that we don't sound exactly like the CD- it's just different. It may not be perfect, but it has that extra live energy you just don't get on a CD. Having to use tricks like auto-tuning and vocal stacking when you play live is just missing the point of a live performance, IMHO.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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