#240665 - 08/11/2004 20:38
What's with the ribon stickers?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Sure, it's been about a month since the mysterious infestation of ribbon stickers on nearly each and every car that I see during my commutes. But I saw three today that finally pushed me to ask:
What's with the ribbon stickers? You know, the "movement ribbons", specifically:
Yellow = Support Our Troops
Red/White/Blue = Support America?
Red/White/Blue + Yellow = Support Our Troops and Support America?
Pink = Fight Breast Cancer
Black = Remember our POW/MIA
Camo colored = Support Our... Undergrowth?
And tons of combinations of the above, both in standard size and in the mini version.
I mean, overnight the ribbon virus multiplied exponentially to the exponentially. Clearly not contagious because my car remains unaffected. But, I keep seeing more and more of them! Two on each car is the average with such outliers as the big white Ford pickup that had EVERY stick (and three of the mini versions). Where did they GET this disease??
Though disturbed by the possibility that these were Pro-Bush icons, I didn't really worry about it until today. During my commutes, for the first time I saw *immitation* ribbon stickers; a slightly different shape than the widespread pathogen. What, is this thing mutating, adapting to its metallic environment? And the one that really made me wonder was the tye dye one I saw tonight. What is that for, "Support Legalizing Pot"?? (I actually think it said "Animal Procurement" or something of a similar shape and size).
Since I haven't researched this epidemic online, I'm clearly not asking for an answer. Just kind of asking.... what *ARE* those things??
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#240666 - 08/11/2004 20:52
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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While they're certainly (to me) not-so-subtle pro-Bush messages they're sold by (in my area) by National Guard boosters at the exit of the Wal-Mart for a buck or two. And who _doesn't_ want to support our troops after doing their patriotic duty of buying Chinese goods from the nice folks at the Wal-Mart?
O/T: Anyone like this week's Southpark?
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#240667 - 08/11/2004 21:03
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
nice folks at the Wal-Mart
What sort of Bizarro World Wal-Marts have you been going to?
"Us is helpful. Us have good supply of products. Us not undermine economic growth."
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Bitt Faulk
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#240668 - 09/11/2004 02:08
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Bitt- Sorry, I forgot to set my sarcasm flag to '1'.  For the record: Walmart are a steel fist around the throat of American retailers with a thin veneer of chintz folksy charm spread over the outside. -Zeke
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#240669 - 09/11/2004 15:00
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I'm waiting for the ribbon that signifies "Support America and its troops. Impeach Bush." Until then, my car will remain ribbon-free as well.
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#240670 - 09/11/2004 18:20
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
what *ARE* those things??
I hadn't thought about it really, but now that you mentioned it, I've seen them everywhere. That's kinda disturbing. To my mind, the people who are buying those get them because they think everyone who doesn't is unpatriotic. I can support our troops and my country without putting a gigantic butt-ugly sticker {or 5) on my car.
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Matt
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#240671 - 09/11/2004 18:40
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
To my mind, the people who are buying those get them because they think everyone who doesn't is unpatriotic.
Probably not, actually. They are probably just trying to show support in a small way because they know there are people out there putting their lives on the line. Yes it's easy to get cynical about this kind of stuff, but in the end I think you end up creating more problems by assuming people are saying more than they actually are.
Note: I realize upon a second reading that I'm not sure whether you meant people are buying them because they feel if they don't then they are being unpatriotic, or that those who buy them view non-participants as unpatriotic. I assumed you meant the latter, but if I am in error, forgive me.
To the general cynics:
I've seen plenty of "Pro-Bush" stickers, as well as plenty of "Pro-Kerry" stickers, some of which (in both camps) accuse supporters of the other sides of being all sorts of things. But if someone chooses a "we support our troops" ribbon and nothing else, I'd give them the benifit of the doubt that that's all they're trying to say.
Me, I agree that I can "support our troops" without a sticker, but since my wife bought one and stuck it on my car, I don't feel any compelling reason to remove it. It seems like a positive message to me, and that's all it means on my vehicle.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240672 - 09/11/2004 21:11
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Personally, I'd rather buy one and tell them to keep it & just take the money. I know I support our troops (meaning: several of my cousins), but I don't care to even have the off hand chance that anyone would interpret that as a Pro-Bush statement.
-Zeke
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#240673 - 09/11/2004 21:17
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Of course, the great part is that they're not stickers, but magnets. Which means that as soon as they decide that they're tired of "supporting our troops", they can simply remove them, no worse for the wear. Some people have the courage of their convictions. Others prefer their convictions to be easily removable, apparently.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#240674 - 09/11/2004 21:37
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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It was a little of both. I'm not accusing anyone of anything who doesn't ask for it. I'm just so tired of the accusations, and I realize I'm sort of being hypocritical as a result of my last post, but it just gets to me and I usually just can't help but be defensive. So, I appologize for that. *pre-emptive edit* I had written up this long, protracted explanation as to why I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of this sticker thing, but I came off sounding way too much like a clichéd and cynical grouch I'll just say that there are about 5 connected reasons this doesn't make sense to me, and if I ever come into contact with these military representatives (I've never seen them), I'll give them $10 from my wallet if I have it (which I don't), and refuse the sticker.
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Matt
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#240675 - 09/11/2004 22:37
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Some people have the courage of their convictions. Others prefer their convictions to be easily removable, apparently.
Wow. Smug much?
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#240676 - 10/11/2004 03:02
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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Has anyone ever heard George Carlin's rant on this very subject? I think it is part of "Free Floating Hostility"...
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#240677 - 10/11/2004 03:34
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
but I came off sounding way too much like a clichéd and cynical grouch
No offense taken.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#240679 - 10/11/2004 12:45
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: music]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Quote:
Some people have the courage of their convictions. Others prefer their convictions to be easily removable, apparently.
Wow. Smug much?
Actually, I prefer the third option -- having convictions but not feeling the need to display them to every Jimbob on the road.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#240680 - 10/11/2004 12:56
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Actually, I prefer the third option -- having convictions but not feeling the need to display them to every Jimbob on the road.
I can respect this, and even agree to some extent, although clearly I don't feel the need to take the sticker off now that it's there, but what I don't get (and this isn't necessarily aimed at you) is why there is such negative attitude for those people who simply are trying to make a positive expression. It's a different personality type for sure that like to be publicly expressive, but that doesn't make them a lesser human being, does it? But I seem to be feeling that there is some hostility here toward people with stickers that say they "support our troops", which is such a vague postiive statement it's almost meaningless. I'm sure there are many people against the war who support our troops, so it's pretty much a non-issue of a sticker.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but sometimes it feels like there has to be some kind of dividing line over any kind of statement at all, no matter how positive it is.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240681 - 10/11/2004 13:12
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The implication is "I support our troops, and therefore GWB, you Hanoi Jane mofo", as evidenced by the significant number of "I support President Bush and our troops" placards.
I support our troops, too. It should be a given. (In fact, I think my stance supports them more than the Hawk stance does. The longer we keep them at war, the more they get injured and die.) But the fact that they feel the need to point out that they gave $5 for a magnet (instead of, say, donating it to the VFW or VA Hospitals or whatever) is an act of claimed superiority.
And, again, the fact that 99% of the people with those magnets seem to also have "I voted against President Clinton and her husband, too" bumper stickers is not irrelevant.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#240682 - 10/11/2004 13:15
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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as one of those troops id like to say that i have no clue what this 'supporting our troops' is. i also see the stickers/magnets everyday. when i do see them i tend to think something along the lines of 'damn right, support our troops'. i guess its nice to know people are behind us.
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#240683 - 10/11/2004 15:17
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
I'm sure there are many people against the war who support our troops
Many? See, that statement also implies that there are alot of people who are against the war and against our troops. I agree with Bitt. You think we're being cynical, but I think we're assuming that nearly everyone in this country supports our troops, regardless of how they feel about the war.
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Matt
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#240684 - 10/11/2004 15:46
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/05/2002
Posts: 205
Loc: Virginia, USA
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When I see them, I typically read;
"Support Our Inavasions"
Because, I support the troops as long as they are doing what I think they should be doing - like coming home. I don't support them in obeying unconstructve orders.
_________________________
Brent
RioCar MK][a 20GB+80GB
'96 Saab 900s (Not any more)
Still looking for a good way to install in a 2010 BMW 3 series with iDrive/NAV
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#240685 - 10/11/2004 16:28
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: bbowman]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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as they normally say 'support our troops', you may be misreading. you seem to be under the assumption that we have a choice in what orders to obey. in the strictest sense, i suppose we do. but, for me, that choice is not a choice.
you are more than welcome to try your hand at Commander in Chief, provided you make it that far. there is so much more to say, but i dont wish to waste my time.
please, keep in mind that you are able to support or not support as you wish because of the troops that are following and have followed 'unconstructive orders'
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#240686 - 10/11/2004 20:12
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there are many people against the war who support our troops
See, that statement also implies that there are alot of people who are against the war and against our troops.
Um, I didn't mean for it to imply that. I meant to imply that there are people who support the war and support our troops, and that there are people who are against the war and support our troops. The sticker makes a positive statement for each.
It's like having an "I Love Christmas" bumper sticker. Sure there are probably people out there who hate Christmas, but in general most people think pretty positively of the holiday. In that case the person with the sticker is simply affirming a positive, not trying to separate him or herself from dissenters. Perhaps I'm naive about people, but I prefer to just take the magnets at their words. It seems people with something stronger to say about politics have no trouble adding those stickers to their cars as well.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240687 - 10/11/2004 21:04
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: JeffS]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I'll come out and say it: I hate Christmas!
It's a great holiday for the kids and I certainly loved it as a child, but aside from getting the family together, the gift giving is really not needed for adults. The decorations are OK, and I like the lights in the dark of winter, but the gift giving stress I could do without 100%.
Thanksgiving's probably my favorite holiday, all the nice family togetherness, a great meal and not too much stress, save for the cook. Being the cook has its own rewards, but that's another subject.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled discusison about magnets, war, troops, Clinton, Bush, Kerry & Walmart...
-Zeke
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WWFSMD?
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#240688 - 10/11/2004 21:20
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Heh, actually it was kind of a joke for me to say that, as I'm a pretty bah humbug guy around Christmas myself. "Hate" is probably too strong a word, but I'm not a big fan. Now "Hate" is EXACTLY what I feel about Wal-Mart + Christmas.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#240689 - 10/11/2004 23:35
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
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Quote:
But the fact that they feel the need to point out that they gave $5 for a magnet (instead of, say, donating it to the VFW or VA Hospitals or whatever) is an act of claimed superiority
I have 5 of the magnets on my van and I don't feel superior over anyone. I have always been a supporter of the POW/MIA movement since the Vietnam War and wore 2 bracelets and kept in touch with the families for many years, one soldier came home a few years later and the other was never found. If it makes someone feel like they are helping in some small way, then WTF, what harm is there.
I also had a bumper sticker at one time that read "The more I see of men, the more I love my cat"
_________________________
Laura
MKI #017/90
whatever
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#240690 - 11/11/2004 15:51
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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new poster
Registered: 21/11/2001
Posts: 40
Loc: Maine, USA
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From the guy who created RockPaperSaddam.com, here is... Antimagnet
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#240691 - 15/02/2005 05:11
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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This thread isn't as old as I remembered. Threads just drop down the stack pretty quickly. Anyhow I thought of this thread immediately when I heard this essay on NPR this eve when driving to a meeting. From the Dad of a returned troop. It sums up pretty well what I feel when I see the new yellow ribbons on cars. Too dang bad there aren't transcripts, just Real. I know how dirty that makes some of us feel!
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#240692 - 15/02/2005 05:40
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Laura]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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If I ever get motivated enough to dig the crater in my front yard for it, I have a plan to mount 4 flag poles (of different heights) in a circle, to fly the Stars and Stripes, the Pennsylvania state flag, the Rattlesnake Flag and the POW-MIA flag. I have no doubt that this will confuse some of our neighbors after the Kerry Edwards campaign signs my wife had in the yard, but the flags would be entirely sincere. Even if I don't support current military policy, the servicemen didn't write the policy, they were simply deployed as a result, and their service is no less valuable than previous generations who have been called on. My mother's father, and two of my mother's uncles, served in World War 2, and one was a prisoner of war. Unlike generations since, their contributions have been better appreciated. Just because you served in an unpopular war should not mean that your service is unappreciated.
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#240693 - 15/02/2005 05:46
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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Hah. I hadn't seen that anti-magnet site. I've got the same sentiments towards yellow bracelets.
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#240694 - 15/02/2005 10:02
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Quote:
please, keep in mind that you are able to support or not support as you wish because of the troops that are following and have followed 'unconstructive orders'
I think that the last time that troops following their orders, constructive or not, had anything to do with freedom of your country (as you imply) was during WWII.
That said, I blame Bush, Rumsfeld, Pentagon types giving orders for 'aggressive interrogation', even those morons (now scapegoats) from Abu Ghaib who followed them all too enthusiastically, but I certainly cannot blame an average GI John/Jane for risking their life in an unnecessary, wrong war.
I sometimes try to imagine myself in the shoes of Enola Gay commander, a pilot raining napalm or defoliant on rice paddies (and villages), a squad leader in Faluja, a terrified soldier manning a checkpoint looking at a suspicious car closing in. What would I do? Not very differently from what they did, I am affraid and ashamed to admit. But I think I would have considered myself a victim afterwards, not a hero.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#240695 - 15/02/2005 14:06
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: bonzi]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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Quote:
I think that the last time that troops following their orders, constructive or not, had anything to do with freedom of your country (as you imply) was during WWII.
I would argue that simply the act of maintaining an active military contributes every day to us keeping our freedom.
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#240696 - 15/02/2005 16:03
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
their service is no less valuable than previous generations
I suppose that depends how you define valuable, from whose point of view.
Certainly their lives are no more or less precious than those serving during WWII, to pick an example. All life is worth saving.
But if they're sacrificing themselves for something that's worthless (to exaggerate), what does that mean? Well, if you spend a million lives to get the results of World War II, you get some value to each life. But if you spend 1000 lives to get nothing, well, those lives are less valuable insofar as the reward ganed from their loss.
On the flip side, are not squandered resources more valuable than those spent meaningfully? Would you rather have back that $500 you spent to get an empeg or that $10 that fell out of your wallet last week? So maybe they're more valuable.
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Bitt Faulk
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#240697 - 15/02/2005 16:07
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Hah. I hadn't seen that anti-magnet site. I've got the same sentiments towards yellow bracelets.
Yeah, that sort of self-aggrandizing lip-service cheeses me off, too. I just don't understand what the thought process is:
"I'll buy this ribbon/armband to show my support, plus some money goes to them!": This person just wants to show off.
"Some money goes towards them, plus I get this fancy ribbon/armband!": This person either puts some value on the show-off effect, or is too stupid to contribute directly to a charity.
I don't know that I like any of those points of view.
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Bitt Faulk
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#240698 - 15/02/2005 16:25
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
But if they're sacrificing themselves for something that's worthless (to exaggerate), what does that mean?
Well, then we should appreciate them all the more, for if true it means they are willing to pay the ultimate price for no net gain to their country. One would assume, though, that they do not themselves have such a defeatist attitude, though I agree with your assessment of the likely result.
Quote:
On the flip side, are not squandered resources more valuable than those spent meaningfully? Would you rather have back that $500 you spent to get an empeg or that $10 that fell out of your wallet last week? So maybe they're more valuable.
That's a glib way of looking at it, but I can't really dispute it.
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#240699 - 15/02/2005 16:29
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Obviously, I'm putting a finite value on something that of limitless worth, but I'm not so good with my infinity-related math.
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Bitt Faulk
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#240700 - 15/02/2005 17:02
Re: What's with the ribon stickers?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
I would argue that simply the act of maintaining an active military contributes every day to us keeping our freedom.
While I actually agree with your statement (with some small caveats), I have to point out that that's probably what Saddam said, too....
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