#242762 - 29/11/2004 07:34
High Def Tivo
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I loved the Best Buy salesman's response when I told him I was looking for a High-Def Tivo. He had the sort of "ooo, suh-wheet" kind of response that made me feel really good about it. So the kid gets the standard-def Tivo and I ebay the Samsung high-def receiver. (If anyone on the BBS wants to make me an offer for the Samsung unit, it's the SIR-TS160, you'll save me the hassle of photographing it and writing up an ebay description.) Anyhoo, DirecTV's system was down at the late-night time I called to activate the thing, so I couldn't tune satellite stations. I'll get that working in the morning. But for now, I was able to tune terrestrial highdef from my local area and the thing worked great. It even takes the same IR codes that the SD DirecTivo took so I didn't need to bust out the JP1 cable for my 15-1994. Oh, and the secret handshake for turning on the 30-second-skip feature works the same as it always did. It's funny, I think the 30-second skip might very well have been the selling point that tipped the SWMBO scales in favor of getting this thing. I wanted it as an early Christmas present to ourselves that simultaneously gave my daughter her birthday present (she'd specifically asked for a Tivo for her room). But SWMBO was giving me the raised eyebrow for a while. At one point during the conversation, I'd mentioned that it would give us the ability to skip commercials during high-def viewings of "The West Wing", specifically citing that we could skip: "It's more of a... Sea Foam." Anyone who sat through last week's West Wing without commercial-skipping will recognize that phrase... it got repeated every single commercial break during the entire show.  So far, only a couple of things are disappointing about this unit: 1. It doesn't seem to be giving me terrestrial analog stations like the samsung unit did. It only seems to be listing the terrestrial digital local stations. Anyone know whether this thing is supposed to tune analog TV stations? I thought it had four tuners in it, two of which were for receving terrestrial stations. 2. The Tivo guide and menus are as slow as ever. I expected this because I was told it would be the case. But I got spoiled by the lightning-fast guide and menus on the Samsung unit. I'll be sad to see that go.  But on the good side... I CAN TIVO HIGH DEF NOW! WOOOOOOOOO!
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#242763 - 29/11/2004 11:00
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Hi, I don't have this unit, so I'm not sure but according to this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...ota#post4204650you cannot get Analog OTA, you are expected to get that via DirectTV. I just got a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD-DVR from my cable company. Boy a HD-DVR is great! Enjoy it! Peter Miami, FL USA
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#242764 - 29/11/2004 12:29
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Ain't it grand? Like the other guy said, I think it assumes you're going to get the local channels from DirecTV.
We have the same feeling here when watching footbal games. We have to start a non-home team game about 50 minutes before it ends, because with the 30 second skip between plays, that's how long it takes to watch a whole game. And it's all in Hi-Def! Woohoo!
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Matt
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#242765 - 29/11/2004 15:55
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I think it assumes you're going to get the local channels from DirecTV
Yeah, that makes sense. Why would DirecTV build a box that makes it easy to skip out on their $4.00 per month fee? Leave that up to the third parties.
In any case, I'm able to get the digital OTA versions of most of my local channels, so I'm actually OK with it. I was just wondering why.
And I was fiddling with the menus and doing programming this morning, and although they're still pretty slow compared to that Samsung receiver, they seem to be a bit faster than the standard-def Tivo. Certainly within the tolerable range.
Thanks, guys!
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#242766 - 29/11/2004 15:58
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Yup, you can only get OTA digital channels, no analog. For me, this is mostly a good thing. My PBS station only does its fund drives on its analog channel, while sending through the national PBS-HD signal, unscathed. Most of the other channels are just standard def that's been up-converted, except for the occasional prime-time HD signal. One nice benefit, for me, is that channel 2's tower is apparently far away from me and has the longest wavelength, which my antenna doesn't do very well. Analog reception is piss poor, but their digital channel is a higher UHF frequency and comes in loud and clear.
I dropped the local channels I'd been getting from the satellite and started paying for the "HD package" which includes ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD, Bravo-HD, and HDNet. Discovery and Bravo have some eye candy, but repeat the same shows over and over. HDNet is actually pretty good, although their movie selection is a little offbeat. HBO-HD is great, although I was surprised to see that many of the shows are HD but 4:3. Movies are always 16:9.
Amusing or annoying, the "local channels" from the satellite are still listed next to the OTA local channels. So, I have channel 13 (unsubscribed), and 13-1, 13-2, and 13-3 (OTA). It sometimes gets confusing.
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#242767 - 29/11/2004 16:51
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
HDNet is actually pretty good, although their movie selection is a little offbeat.
True, but their NHL hockey games are a sight to behold. (If we could get some this year... SIGH...) Anyway, I'm looking forward to being able to Tivo the HD hockey games.
Quote:
HBO-HD is great, although I was surprised to see that many of the shows are HD but 4:3. Movies are always 16:9.
Some of their shows were 4:3 in early seasons and went 16:9 in later seasons (Six Feet Under for example). Movies still aren't all in 16:9, but they've got a better track record of that than Showtime does, because they've had their own High-def telecine equipment for several years now. Showtime may have gotten some recently, but they didn't have any when they first launched their HD channel and so the majority of showtime HD was upconverts at first.
Quote:
Amusing or annoying, the "local channels" from the satellite are still listed next to the OTA local channels.
In long-time DirecTV tradition, there's no way to have the unit automatically hide channels you don't get. You can only do it manually, one channel at a time, and if they change the channel line-up, you're scrod. I find this to be the greatest single irritant of a DirecTV system, but it's been that way for many years and I don't see a chance of it changing soon.
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#242768 - 29/11/2004 17:46
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Oo, hey, I just thought of a question. Are there any features that let me control the priority of HD versions over SD versions?
Example: I can get West Wing episodes from a few different places. Some of them in HD, some in SD. Is there a way I can tell the player to ONLY record high def versions of a particular program, or to give extra weight to the high def versions?
There didn't seem to be any features like that, other than specifically selecting a time and channel.
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#242769 - 29/11/2004 20:02
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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It seems to "just work". I have several wishlists (movie directors, etc.) that occasionally find HBO movies. If it only tapes it from HBO2, I checked and saw that it never aired on normal HBO. If it did, then it will prefer the HBO-HD version, every time.
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#242771 - 29/11/2004 20:18
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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What are the HD outputs on your TiVos? I have an HD monitor, but it only has composite inputs. Can I get an HDDirectTiVo to work with that set?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#242772 - 29/11/2004 21:15
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
but it only has composite inputs
Don't you mean component?
Yeah, yeah, I know, really bad names for things that sound too similar.
Anyhoo, the HD Tivo has both a DVI output, as well as Y Pr Pb component outputs. It's able to work on my HD TV that doesn't have a DVI plug.
Now, to be absolutely clear, just in case you really did mean composite, it also has a composite output but I don't think it'll put an HD signal out on that plug.
It does, interestingly, seem to be able to downconvert an HD signal to 480i NTSC. That might be able to go out on the composite output.
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#242773 - 29/11/2004 21:34
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Dammit. Yes. Component.
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Bitt Faulk
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#242774 - 29/11/2004 22:14
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: DWallach]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
It seems to "just work". I have several wishlists (movie directors, etc.) that occasionally find HBO movies. If it only tapes it from HBO2, I checked and saw that it never aired on normal HBO. If it did, then it will prefer the HBO-HD version, every time.
I believe when a wishlist finds two competing programs it chooses the one on the lower numbered channel. In the case of HBO it causes it to always prefer the HD channel but I don't think it has any built in preference.
But there is an HDTV choice in the Audio & Video category you can use to narrow your wishlist. It's the screen that comes up after you enter your title/keyword/actor/director.
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#242775 - 29/11/2004 22:25
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Doesn't it also have HDMI?
The way I've set it up is that when you search for a show, it'll list the show once for however many channels it finds it on. I just make sure I select the one on the HD channel (70, for instance), and it just works. Same for the OTA shows.
I don't know if you watch Dead Like Me (everyone should, IMO), but that show looks fantastic in HD. But the HD show I'm looking forward to most of all this year is, without a doubt, Carnivāle.
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Matt
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#242776 - 30/11/2004 02:34
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
And I was fiddling with the menus and doing programming this morning, and although they're still pretty slow compared to that Samsung receiver, they seem to be a bit faster than the standard-def Tivo
Wow, I wish I could see how fast the Samsung is. The Hughes DirecTivo I have is WAY slower than the standalone I used to have, particularly when adding a recording.
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Matt
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#242777 - 30/11/2004 03:46
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Good lord that's hard to believe as slow as the SA one is.
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Matt
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#242778 - 30/11/2004 03:53
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Wow, I wish I could see how fast the Samsung is. The Hughes DirecTivo I have is WAY slower than the standalone I used to have, particularly when adding a recording.
Keeping in mind that the Samsung is merely a tuner/receiver and not a PVR, its onscreen menus are essentially instantaneous. I can page through the program guide pretty much as fast as I can press the up and down buttons. No waiting for the screen to paint.
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#242779 - 30/11/2004 04:40
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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If the DTiVo is a series1, then you need a cachecard with 512MB of memory. Speeds things right up.
Bruno
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#242780 - 07/12/2004 19:34
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Living with the unit for a while, I have the following comments to make:
1. The menu screens do not take advantage of the fact that it has high def output. They could have made so much more information appear on any given screen, but instead it looks exactly like a standard def Tivo, with the same number of information lines per screen.
2. The menu screens in fact look like filtered-upconverts of the standard-def screens in the original Tivo. The text looks quite fuzzy compared to, say, my Samsung receiver when it was plugged into the same input on the TV. It makes me think I need to adjust the TV's focus. Fortunately, this is only with the menu screens. The actual HDTV broadcast pictures are as sharp and clear as I would expect.
3. It doesn't seem to always record high-def programs in favor of standard def programs. For example, I noticed it suggestion-taped a movie off of standard-def HBO. Since the movie was on the main HBO channel (not HBO2 for example), I know that there was a high-def version of the movie playing at the exact same time on the high def channel. I wish it would have taped the high def version instead of the standard-def version. There's no place in the software where I can exert influence or control over this.
But on the good side:
Picture is excellent. Even standard-def upconverted-to-1080 pictures are excellent. Allows simple control of aspect ratio for standard-def pictures, and allows gray bars instead of black. Allows you to change the ouput format (1080, 720, 540, 480) from the remote control. Oodles of hard disk space. Works exactly like the standard-def tivo units in every way (ie, really really well).
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#242781 - 07/12/2004 20:05
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I agree with all of your observations. I was a little disappointed with the menus as well. I like how you can alternate betweek the 1080, 720, etc by just pressing Up on the D-pad. However, most stuff looks just fine to me with just leaving it on 1080.
I'm also suprised at how much space the thing has. I know mine has at least 5 HD movies, several 1 hour HD TV shows, and a bunch of other HD programming, but I can still record entire HD football games and hours upon hours of SD programming. It's phenomenal!
_________________________
Matt
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#242782 - 07/12/2004 21:06
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Maybe you could add the HD channels to your "Favorite Channels" list?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#242783 - 07/12/2004 21:15
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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AFAIK, there is no way to get it to prefer the HD channels other then setting up a season pass on an HD channel or using HD as a criteria in a wishlist.
It wouldn't necessarily be desirable to prefer the HD channel in all cases. Much of what is on HD channels is upconverted SD so it just wastes space.
My two complaints about the HDTiVo are the slow menus and lack of native output mode. But the lack of native output is made much less objectionable by having the resolutions available with one button press instead of buried in the menus or an impossible to find little hardware switch on the back (like my Samsung HD receiver).
But, overall, it's a fanstastic product. I give TiVo a lot of credit for not skimping on the specs. I was really surprised when it was announced that it would have 2 satellite and 2 OTA tuners. They could have gotten away with one of each.
I've been waiting for this device since the day in 1999 when I got a bonus from work and I went to Best Buy and blew it on a first gen TiVo and an HD receiver. I considered the TiVo interesting but it was the HD receiver I was really excited about. It only took a couple of days before I was hooked on the TiVo and hardly ever used the HD receiver because, well, it wasn't a TiVo.
Edited by Dylan (07/12/2004 21:20)
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#242784 - 07/12/2004 23:10
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Patiently awaiting a cheaper 2nd generation product.  Congrats on the new toy. I have gotten wrapped up in the frustration over DirecTV not giving us the Home Media Option, but the thing is, they give us a great product and let us use their services for $5 a month, regardless of how many you have in your household. 2 tuners and no recompression means that I'll stick with DirecTV as long as they keep offering Tivo they way they do. It's also good to know that they are still putting money into the product even though Hughes has been bought out.
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Brad B.
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#242785 - 07/12/2004 23:52
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
they give us a great product and let us use their services for $5 a month, regardless of how many you have in your household.
I bought lifetime service for $200 back when it was an option, so I don't pay monthly. However, I now wonder what that $5 per month goes toward. The guide updates were always done through the satellite, but now the software updates are coming off the bird as well. OK, maybe the $5 goes towards software updates... NOT! I think the SA Tivos are up to v5 or v6 now. The DirecTivo updates are basically bug fixes to v3. The directivo still phones tivo every week or so, but it's collecting viewing habbits which are almost certainly being sold.
Perhaps the $5 a month is used to subsidize the ability to sell a 40GB directivo for $79 at retail?
Can any HTPC-type time shifting programs support dual component or HDMI input? I lust for an HD DirecTivo, but I don't want to drop the dough until I see it has software at least as good as SA Tivos. Also the abilty to rip shows from it would be great. I highly doubt that would be available out of the box, but with Tivo2Go coming, something could probably be written to take advantage of that somehow.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#242786 - 08/12/2004 01:22
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I assumed that it was a license fee paid to Tivo from DirecTV.
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Brad B.
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#242787 - 08/12/2004 01:54
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
I assumed that it was a license fee paid to Tivo from DirecTV.
TiVo only gets $1.30 for the DirecTV subs. The majority of TiVo's new customers come from DirecTV but TiVo makes 90% of their revenue from standalone subs.
Now the new Murdoch controlled DirecTV is putting out press releases touting their upcoming "TiVo like" (their words) DVR being produced by another Murdoch owned company. It's based on a product available in England (BSky or something like that. I'm too lazy to look it up).
Things ain't looking good for TiVo. They're getting dropped by their one satellite/cable partner and they aren't expanding their standalone subs fast enough. Most people who even know what a DVR is would define it as a tapeless VCR. In that context, what's the difference between a TiVo and the DVR offerred with your digital cable service? It's a tough sell to get someone to shell out $200 for a box when they can get what they think is the same thing for free with a similar monthly fee (and no tricky new cabling).
Despite the near universal love from the customers, their brand being synonomous with the product segment, and penetration into popular culture ("I TiVo'ed it"), the company is dangerously close to failing. Their marketing was embarrasing and utterly ineffective. I think TiVo will be a future business school case study in bad marketing.
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#242788 - 08/12/2004 03:48
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Well, what do you think the churn rate is for Tivo? I just signed up a year ago and wouldn't dream of cancelling unless someone comes out with something superior. As far as I can tell, no one has. So, just because they may lose some new customers does NOT doom the Tivo to failure. They're obviously doing just fine with the subscriber base they currently have. And I don't see it shrinking.
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#242789 - 08/12/2004 04:50
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I wonder how many customers direct tv will loose by making their own DVR. I would get direct tv for the dual tuner tivo if my apartment wasn't on the wrong side of the building and always planned on getting it when I move.
I think if tivo would make a dual tuner stand alone unit it would take some customers from direct tv.
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Matt
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#242790 - 08/12/2004 10:51
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Now the new Murdoch controlled DirecTV is putting out press releases touting their upcoming "TiVo like" (their words) DVR being produced by another Murdoch owned company. It's based on a product available in England (BSky or something like that. I'm too lazy to look it up).
Sounds like you are talking about Sky+, for which "TiVo like" is the best description.
Sky+ doesn't have any of the advanced features of TiVo. It is much more like a video recorder with a programme guide. You choose the shows you want to record.
The only "advanced" features it has are series links, which allows you to record all the shows in a series (season) and it knows when shows are running late. Both these features are dependant on the broadcaster of the particular channel sending the right data.
The reason Sky+ is becoming reasonably sucessful in the UK and TiVo is dead is because Murdock has control of the hardware platform that satellite TV in the UK uses. So no one else can make a PVR that can directly receive Sky services without Sky's involvement.
I really wish that Sky and TiVo had teamed up. Sky+ is good, but it is too dumbed down for my tastes (though I do own one).
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#242791 - 08/12/2004 14:25
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: lectric]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Well, what do you think the churn rate is for Tivo? I just signed up a year ago and wouldn't dream of cancelling unless someone comes out with something superior. As far as I can tell, no one has. So, just because they may lose some new customers does NOT doom the Tivo to failure. They're obviously doing just fine with the subscriber base they currently have. And I don't see it shrinking.
I'm sure you're right that the churn rate ia very low. Everyone who owns one loves it. The problem is that they aren't doing fine with their current subscriber base. They are hemorrhaging cash and how many times can they go back to the well asking for more? They already IPO'd and their stock isn't strong enough to float more shares. So they need private capital and their business plan doesn't look very promising right now. I hope desperately they pull through but it's not looking good. Obviously, I'm not privy to their internal plans so maybe they've got a viable plan to succeed that isn't just hoping someone buys them out for the brand.
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#242792 - 08/12/2004 14:42
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: msaeger]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
I wonder how many customers direct tv will loose by making their own DVR.
If they were to stop supporting existing TiVo's and force users to "upgrade" to a different DVR then I imagine they'd lose customers. (I don't expect that to happen.) But for new DVR subs I doubt the TiVo brand means much. "Does it record? Yes". "Does it require tapes? No". That about sums up what most non owners understand about a DVR.
Quote:
I think if tivo would make a dual tuner stand alone unit it would take some customers from direct tv.
I imagine most people these days aren't using the internal tuner because that's only good for analog, basic cable.
There is technology on the horizon that may benefit TiVo. CableCards are starting to be rolled out. I don't know a lot about it but it's a standarized encryption scheme. CE devices can contain generic tuners (not sure if it's HD only) and the cable company provides you a card that you plug into the device and authorizes you for the programming. It eliminates the need for a set top box to receive premium content. This technology allows TiVo to make standalone boxes that have the same features as an integrated one. (Dual tuners, no flaky IR interface to the STB, one box) But even with CableCard tuners TiVo still has the problem of convincing people to pay several hundred dollars for their product when they can get something they probably view as equivalent or at least good enough for free from the cable provider.
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#242793 - 08/12/2004 15:39
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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It's not that TiVo is hemmoraging cash, per se, but that they're blowing a huge amount of what would otherwise be profits on incentives. The clear intent is to drum up as many new subscribers as possible, and bank on the monthly service fees.
As a case study, I offer up my father. I tried to sell him on a TiVo. He wasn't interested, despite the fact that neither he nor my mom could really wrap their brains around the necessary effort to get their Dish receiver and VCR to work together. I suggested that Dad investigate the DIsh-brand PVR. They sent it to him for *free*, with I believe a $5 monthly fee, although he was complaining that it doesn't support dual tuner. Nonetheless, he and mom apparently love the thing.
It's hard to compete with free.
(Caveat: I hold a bunch of TiVo stock. I first bought a year ago at $7.50, was smugly satisfied as it went up to $12, then watched it descent downward. I bought again at $4.89, figuring it had to go up. It's not been a pretty ride, but I'm still long on the stock. I may sell before year's end to get the tax writeoff.)
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#242794 - 08/12/2004 17:30
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: DWallach]
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addict
Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
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The problem Tivo has is the old free DVRs from the cable company.
I just upgraded regular SA-DVR8000 to the HiDef DVR8350 for free.
Not as nice as Tivo in most respects but you get what you pay for
Still, my Myth-TV box is starting to take shape now.......
Edited by ashmoore (08/12/2004 17:30)
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the chewtoy for the dog of Life
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#242795 - 08/12/2004 20:05
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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This all explains how desperately Tivo clung onto my subscription. I wanted to sell my SA Tivo to my old roommate who has been hurting since I took it with me. According to their website, the only way I could do that was to cancel my subscription, then he'll sign up with the box himself as a new subscriber. So I called up Tivo and told them what I wanted to do. After a couple minutes of talking to the rep, he put me on hold for what seemed like around 10 minutes. When he came back, he said "So how's this, we'll lower your monthly fee to $6.99."  Well, I knew my old roommate wasn't sure if he would want to pay the $13, so I said OK All I had to do was go into my online account, and change my details with him one by one (first contact info, then credit card, etc), ending with having him change his password. It's like I no longer owned the Tivo!
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Matt
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#242796 - 08/12/2004 21:37
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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member
Registered: 19/03/2002
Posts: 144
Loc: Florida, USA
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I know 2 families who settle for the kluge that is Comcast-provided DVR.. only because it's 4 or 5 dollars a month. both admit its awkward and would probably enjoy the tivo experience over the half-baked copied-garbage that is being rented to them at the moment.. But I notice that the glory days are coming to an end for tivo- they're now pumping their own adverts when you skip recordings' adverts? watch out for that slippery slope :-\ i'm glad i built a mythtv box a year ago when I looked at tivo. didnt want another monthly bill considering how little i watched tv. but having a PVR has changed that.. i enjoy tv now. I can queue, record and play back later @ my PC, in the bedroom on the xbox, in the movie room on the tv.. so many options for myth frontends  and you can also http://mythtv from any PC in the house to queue an item. or stream one too. just need a small interface so its useful on my zaurus w/wifi
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::: shadow45
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#242797 - 09/12/2004 15:04
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: DWallach]
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addict
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 498
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Quote:
It's not that TiVo is hemmoraging cash, per se, but that they're blowing a huge amount of what would otherwise be profits on incentives. The clear intent is to drum up as many new subscribers as possible, and bank on the monthly service fees.
Interesting. I hadn't looked at how they were spending the money - I just saw that they were losing it big time. Forgetting long term implications, do you know if they could at least break even today just from their revenue and without heavy marketing?
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#242798 - 10/12/2004 15:06
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dylan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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I haven't looked at a Tivo financial statement in a while. A year ago, my read is that they'd be profitable this year. Instead, they cranked out these massive incentive programs. If you want to try a thought experiment, just look at their total number of subscribers and multiply by the service fees, and you'll get an impressive amount of inbound money.
In many ways, Tivo is trying to avoid being the next Apple. They're aggressively looking to license their software to the Japanese and Korean box builders -- a very sound strategy that could pay out in the years to come. Still, in the short term, Tivo is clearly being hammered by every announcement that satellite and cable vendors are giving DVRs away for close to free. Another long term gamble might be Tivo's patent portfolio. I believe they're suing Dish right now over patent infringement. These lawsuits take years to go anywhere, but the payout could be quite significant, particularly because, if they survive unscathed, they'd be able to twist everybody else's arms for royalties.
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#242799 - 10/12/2004 15:31
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Another follow-up on the high def Tivo...
I had heard the thing had four tuners- two over-the-air tuners, and two satellite tuners.
So when I'd programmed it to tape Wednesday's West Wing on over-the-air NBC highdef, and "The House of Sand and Fog" on HBO highdef satellite, I figured it still had two tuners free and I could watch some live TV while it grabbed those shows.
Nope. Turns out that it can only use two of those tuners at any given time. So I was unable to watch live TV while those two things taped.
Not a particularly huge problem or anything (just the fact that it can tape two high-def things at the same time is bloody awesome to begin with), I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this thread understood that there was a limitation to the four-tuner thing.
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#242800 - 10/12/2004 17:12
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Yeah, I went searching for that information before the Tivo got to me, because it seemed too good to be true. It was. It makes sense, though. I can't imagine the strain it would cause to be viewing and recording four HD sources, although the fact that it can record two and play a third is pretty amazing.
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Matt
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#242801 - 10/12/2004 17:31
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
although the fact that it can record two and play a third is pretty amazing.
Hi Def streams are likely to put less load on the TiVo when recording, as all it needs to do is record the digital stream, instead of encoding an analog one into digital. Similar to how a DirecTiVo has an easier time since it just records what comes over the dish.
Playback on the other hand will put a higher load since it is a higher quality signal, and the TiVo has to do sone digital -> analog conversions for the component ports.
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#242802 - 10/12/2004 19:53
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Isn't it tough to throw those huge files around, though? I know my desktop, though it isn't optimized for such a thing, takes a lot of CPU to merely play the feed from my HD card, let alone record it.
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Matt
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#242803 - 10/12/2004 20:02
Re: High Def Tivo
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Don't know about the Hi Def but the standalone ones have dedicated hardware to do encoding and decoding. There shouldn't be any significant difference between a digital stream and an analog signal in this respect unless they use different bitrates. Digital -> Analog conversion is also all done by hardware.
Major bottlenecks would be HD speed and IO bus speed really.
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