#247686 - 27/01/2005 02:47
Rain Woman
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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OK, I am going to guess that some of you have made the acquaintance of someone who got their Ph.D. in Specialized Knowledge but who was fundamentally an idiot.
So I ask: Condi, Where's The Beef?
I submit that Condi is a mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton.
Secretary of State? That was a given. Didn't even register on Google - Surpise Me! Qualifications: Agree with W.
I have gotten out of the political complaint business in favor of my new Eternal Life Initiative, but this whole Condi thing just amazes me. Somebody rock my world, though: Tell me, what has Condi ever done but suck up? Where's The Beef?
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#247687 - 27/01/2005 03:17
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31594
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I am going to guess that some of you have made the acquaintance of someone who got their Ph.D. in Specialized Knowledge but who was fundamentally an idiot.
Yeah, my stepmother.
And she was a teacher, too. Sigh.
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#247688 - 27/01/2005 03:18
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: jimhogan]
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old hand
Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
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I think this may end up looking like your home page:
Please check back frequently for the beef.
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#247689 - 27/01/2005 03:40
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I wasn't aware politicians needed qualifications...
From the "small moral victories" department, I'm glad there was at least an open discussion of the issues for 9 hours or so. Not that she admitted any mistakes or gave any ground, but I'm glad a few of the Democrats took a stand, to at least send a message to Rummy and the NeoCons (whose hit single "Oobie-Doobie Bomb-You-Do" reached #4 on the Billboard Hot 100 this week in 1958.)
Of course, there's no way the message is loud enough to be heard over the pouring and mass consumption of Kool-Aid at the Pentagon (ask Seymour Hersh) but I relish any good news I can find these days.
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#247690 - 27/01/2005 04:10
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
what has Condi ever done
I know this is a lost cause, but here's a start for anyone else reading this who is possibly less entrenched in their self loathing or at least don't get their news from Moveon.org.
Dr. Condoleezza Rice became the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, commonly referred to as the National Security Advisor, on January 22, 2001.
In June 1999, she completed a six year tenure as Stanford University 's Provost, during which she was the institution's chief budget and academic officer. As Provost she was responsible for a $1.5 billion annual budget and the academic program involving 1,400 faculty members and 14,000 students.
As professor of political science, Dr. Rice has been on the Stanford faculty since 1981 and has won two of the highest teaching honors -- the 1984 Walter J. Gores Award for Excellence in Teaching and the 1993 School of Humanities and Sciences Dean's Award for Distinguished Teaching.
At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions.
From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military.
She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula . In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco.
Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded honorary doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, the University of Notre Dame in 1995, the National Defense University in 2002, the Mississippi College School of Law in 2003, the University of Louisville and Michigan State University in 2004.
And yet some liberals insist on calling her an "Aunt Jamima" or a "mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton."
How's your resume' lookin?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247691 - 27/01/2005 04:41
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
How's your resume' lookin?
Mine looks ok. Nothing to brag about, but I'm not one for bragging.
Oh, and unlike Mrs. Rice, it doesn't include "Lied to the American People about Verious Important Things".
And to save time, I don't read MoveOn.org or whatever it is. I do, however, get news from as many different perspectives / places (and countries) as possible. Nor have I ever referered to her by any epithet stronger (or more creative) than "Lying Bitch".
Of course, just my opinion.
_________________________
Dave
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#247692 - 27/01/2005 05:21
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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You forgot to say she is also an accomplished pianist. I admire her personal accomplishments.
You also did not notice that, asked during hearing on 9/11 intelligence failures why did she did she not acted on plentifull intelligence warnings, she essentially answered that nobody told her what to do.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#247693 - 27/01/2005 06:25
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Typical academic CV, written with a template generator, where the object of the game is to "collect the most toys". My Dad's CV actually looks a lot better than this, but he wasn't a government advisor/staffer, in spite of being a Fellow of a number of learned societies(earned academically, rather than awarded in Honarium) or advisors to this or that (next time you're in Belfast or Manchester, use the public transport and road systems and find out for yourself. Or drive up the M6 in good ol' middle England). I hope you noted how many toys in her collection have the word "honorary" prepended. This has nothing to do with her benefit, but a lot more to do with the awarding Institution's "honour". They are not earned, by any means I personally understand in terms of academic achievement ("Sick and tired of your job? Not getting on? Wish you had that degree certificate your neighbour has? We have them for $5.95 from Certifiable Academic Institutions - get one TODAY and take the first step into a new world!") Provost? Look it up in a dictionary. Responsibility is somewhat different to the practise of the job. Member of the board? Translation: rubber-stamping Yes-(wo)man. This type of "look what I can do" CV means effectively, nothing. So this is all flim-flam: Brad, I am surprised at you for pitching this up, and I am even more surprised that you have popped up the word "Liberal" in the way that so many of your countrymen do - as a kind of insult with the same intent behind it as Oedipus does in American society. Why did you need to do this? You have just gone down a long way in my estimation. The extreme conservatism of American Politics that has generated antipathy in this form is verging on a form of Fascism that no-one with the US seems to recognise or kick against, and has caused two major wars. All that being said, she is a liar, a muppet, is being used as the fall guy by her own governement - and she's letting them do it to her! And you lot voted for these pillocks. Good luck, mate - just don't take the rest of us with you 
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#247694 - 27/01/2005 10:17
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 525
Loc: Oklahoma
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She can rock a mean keyboard as well!
_________________________
The only easy day...was yesterday!
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#247695 - 27/01/2005 11:35
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
This type of "look what I can do" CV means effectively, nothing.
Did you even read the thing? Do you even know anything about her? Her foreign policy experience far exceeds anyone else appointed to the possition that I'm aware of. It certainly qualifies her for the job. You arrogant "well, some of those are honorary" come back is so weak. Go through and edit out the honorary stuff and just include her degrees and job positions related to foreign policy and the thing is still very long. Arrogant.
As much as I disagree with Madeline Albright's world view, politics and general way of approaching things, I at least respect her as a learned individual. You guys can't even bring yourselves to recognize all that this woman has done simply because you hate the man she works for. It is utterly disrespectful. Arrogant "flim-flam" if you will.
And yes, liberal. It's amazing how people who are liberals get so defensive about the word. You can call me "conservative" all day long or even toss the "neo" in there to make "neocon" so that the casual observor might associate it with "neo-nazi" (the "neocon" term ironically is most commonly used to imply "conservative Jew") and I won't mind. I'm a conservative and I'm proud of it. I don't get offended even when I'm so often prejudged or even when I'm attacked for it. If someone is misrepresenting what "conservative" means to me, I try to correct it rather than run away from the term. Maybe you're not too familiar with the term liberal in US politics, but it's an accurate usage. And considering that this is a topic about US politics, I don't see a need to "internationalize" it. If you'd prefer "progressive", then fine. It's amazing how you entire view of me as a person has been diminished because I am aware of a large movement based on "liberal" ideals, politics and culture hates Bush and anything associated with him. What's so wrong about saying, "Yes, I'm a liberal and I hate Bush?" if that's really the way you feel?
And you guys really need to get your story straight. I thought Bush was a total puppet that had no brain and was run by the likes of Cheney, Wolfowitz (damn neo-con Jew!) and Condeleeza (although let's make her sound like a child and call her "Condi") Rice. Now suddenly he's the one pulling the strings?
And to be honest, what's wrong with a President in charge of his cabinet? Is a cabinet supposed to offer input into decision making? Or course. But is a cabinet member supposed to be some renegade running around the government working at odds with the person who appointed her, the President of the USA? Was not Kennedy's or Carter's or Clinton's cabinet members' actions carried out in a way that was befitting of that particular president? I really don't get the Left's (or is that term too decisive too?) argument here. She is certainly more than qualified, has the credentials and can be trusted to enact the foreign policy of the President of the United States who was the first person elected to that post by a majority of the vote in quite some time.
If you simply don't like that foreign policy, fine. Talk about that. But don't drag Rice through this as part of the whole paranoid debate.
Honestly, I think the (insert word that won't offend) are really just frightened that she'll be on the Presidential ticket for 2008. It fits quite well with the recent efforts to get the Constitution ammended in order to allow Bill Clinton to run for a 3rd term, i.e. their ranks are pretty thin looking 4 years down the road. This just serves are good character assassination to try to nip her possible run at the bud.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247696 - 27/01/2005 11:51
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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I know this is a lost cause
Tru dat. C'mon, get with the name calling and degrading speech! How dare you have an opinion that is different! Let's just all bitch and moan about the current US situation in a way that would never change anyone's opinion about the real issues. I didn't see any inflammatory speech in Bonzi's post, just facts. Kudos.
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#247697 - 27/01/2005 12:33
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Quote:
What's so wrong about saying, "Yes, I'm a liberal and I hate Bush?" if that's really the way you feel?
OK, OK... Yes, I'm a liberal and I hate Bush. 
As to Ms Rice, she clearly is a very smart, very learned and intelligent person, and I applaud her achievements. I have nothing against her as a person. I am just really, really disappointed that she hasn't managed to steer the Bush administration away from a collision course with all the rest of the world.
And as one of those fancy-pancy european liberals, I actually don't care that much about the Republicans vs. Democrats thing, it's mostly just an artifact of the quaint US two-party pseudo-democracy, but I do worry about the fact that the current US administration has set back so many of the positive developments that were going on in the world, created a strong terrorist movement and alienated pretty much everybody, and is about to drive the world economy down into an abyss. But, hey, western civilization was overrated anyway...
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#247698 - 27/01/2005 13:10
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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... you forgot to include demolishing world agreements relating to climate change and global warming due to vested-interest energy lobbyists/funders, enacting in law the right of an energy lobby to drill for oil in formerly protected environments, the direct coupling of energy use/policy to national and international policy, creation of the politics of fear as a standard "democratic" method of government, etc. etc. .....
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#247699 - 27/01/2005 13:47
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Did you even read the thing?
Yes, I did. What does it mean? It's a pretty extended academic CV. It's written from a template. It shows someone who collects doctorates, honorary or otherwise, like sweeties. I also am a board member of several companies - means nothing. I am also a member of the board of governers of the local school - means nothing. Hell, I can play six musical instruments. Big Deal! I want to see real achievements, like establishing a stabilised government in the mess called Iraq.
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You arrogant "well, some of those are honorary" come back is so weak
No, the majority are honary. They mean nothing. A soldier gets a medal pinned on his chest for doing something valorous: I doubt your average grunt would have much regard for the "honour" of a degree awarded that way.
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"neo-nazi"
Naziism was a form of socialism, not conservatism. Get YOUR story right. You are the one making this association, no-one else. Strange you choose to bring this up given what is happening today in Poland, or doesn't that matter to you? Hell no - I shouldn't have said that - I am being arrogant again by implying that outside the borders of the US there is a world going about it's daily business.
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I thought Bush was a total puppet that had no brain and was run by the likes of Cheney, Wolfowitz (damn neo-con Jew!)
You said it, not me. Miz Rice is also being manipulated, as far as I can see.
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She is certainly more than qualified, has the credentials and can be trusted to enact the foreign policy of the President of the United States who was the first person elected to that post by a majority of the vote in quite some time.
Oh, and Colin Powell wasn't? Eh? Am I missing something here?
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just frightened that she'll be on the Presidential ticket for 2008
I, for one, would be highly pleased to see her run on her own ticket for the presidency, not on the agenda of the "Neo Cons". However, seeing her performance recently in public, I don't hold out much hope - she is being bullied into line.
I would now like you to step back re-read your last post, count the number of times you use the word arrogant, and then reliase how insulting you are being on different levels. Everyone has qualifications, achievements, stuff like that. Pushing a CV as an indication of the worth of a person, is to me, "arrogant" in the extreme. Read your own words.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#247700 - 27/01/2005 14:19
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: julf]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
I am just really, really disappointed that she hasn't managed to steer the Bush administration away from a collision course with all the rest of the world.
'
Well, I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but in all of the books I've read, it seems that she has constantly been at odds with the Pentagon (and Rumsfeld in particular) and at least up until 2003 (when my sources were written) was more in line with Colin Powell as far as diplomatic relations and conflict resolution go. Add to that the fact that the State Department is doing everything in its power to derail Bush's policy and your world may not be crumbling quite as fast as you think.
Thank you for at least being respectful while still getting a chance to voice your disapproval and/or opinions. I'm sure Mark Cushman will get over it. 
Aren't all Europeans, at least Western ones, liberal? I think in previous posts, Jim has quite proudly claimed to be liberal. And he should - he's very good at it! 
Quote:
the quaint US two-party pseudo-democracy
That's a little condescending isn't it? And I can think of many borderline socialist nations in Europe and elsewhere that are far more “pseudo-democrac(ies)” than the US. But that’s using one inaccuracy to justify another one and that really doesn’t hold water in debate does it? Technically, the United States of America (i.e. Jesusland for the Moveon.org peeps) is a Republic. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. …Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. So, I guess I don’t mind not being a “pure” democracy.
And yes, our system is a two party system and that results in most people having to vote for someone who doesn’t represent 100% of what they believe in (just like how I do not support President Bush on 100% of his policies), but the system works for the most part. I look at the Canadian muli-party system and I’m not inspired but the fact is that each of our nations were founded on certain principles and those have to be respected and maintained to ensure the integrity of each. I dig. Yet, I do believe that with issues as large as the war in Iraq, it is easier to look at viewpoints as being either “left” or “right” of center. If we were talking about moral significance in the whole of politics, then we’d need about 500 political parties.
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created a strong terrorist movement
Obviously there was a strong enough terrorist movement long before President Bush took office to cause all of the terrorist actions against the United States including the abduction of US hostages in Iran in 1979, the bombing of the US embassy in Beruit 1982, the bombing of US Marine barracks in Beruit 1983, the attack on the Italian cruise ship resulting in the killing of a 69 year old American, 1986 bombing of a West Berlin disco frequented by US servicemen, the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1993 Bin Laden sponsored downing of a Blackhawk helicopter in Somalia, the 1995 car bombing in Saudi Arabia killing 5 and wounding 30 Americans, the 1996 bombing of a US Air Force housing complex, the 1998 bombings of two US embassies in Africa, the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole and the 9/11 attacks against Washington DC and New York City. This doens't include any of the attacks that have been stopped such as the "Millenium Plot" in Los Angeles. Doing nothing wasn't an option.
But all of this supports my original point that this is truely a debate over the Bush administration and presidential term. Defaming Condoleezza Rice by calling her an idiot, retarded (Rainman reference), puppet or even "mildly smart" is disgraceful.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247701 - 27/01/2005 14:31
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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And yet some liberals insist on calling her an "Aunt Jamima" or a "mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton."
Could you do me a favor and edit this to read "And yet some liberals insist on calling her an 'Aunt Jamima' and some other liberals call her a 'mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton.' " Thanks. Appreciate it.
My submission was a debating point and part of me has to admire your gumption in taking up the argument for the losing team.
To be fair, though, I should have framed my proposal more closely. I mean, I know much of what you pasted in WRT her quals, and I don't think all of it is insignificant. I mean teaching, books, piano playing, and getting an oil tanker named after you?
I guess what I think is that if we were still fretting over the Fulda Gap, we'd be in great shape with Rice as National Security Advisor.
My question/proposal and puzzlement, is based on Rice's performance since 2000 which could be interpreted to be that of a mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton. Maybe I need to create a Web Page for Condi Rice's Positive Accomplishments since 2000 to see what anybody can suggest. What I see is that she tried to jump over the (Fulda) Gap and didn't make it. (Would that be The Pietr Priciple or the Das Peter Prinzip?) People with darker, but still reasonable, minds, think that she systematically lied to us and now lies about that.
As other have pointed out, when grilled over 9/11, she essentially cried ignorance. Instead of being derided for that, she was given high points for elocution and composure. More recently attacked by Boxer, her defense is to become indignant and trumpet her respect for the truth. Oh, puleeeeze.
With all the other factors (like, say, cred on the world stage) on the table, a woman who aided and abetted possible the biggest FU in our history is given a big promotion. And for one reason. Line toeing (I'm hearing those Stepford Wives voices again!). Well, surprise me. Let's see how she works out as a stateswoman. Let's see how many pieces she can put back together.
So, her resume is considerable. I admire the ability of folks like Bonzi to admire. Under the circumstances, though, a resume twice as long wouldn't impress me much in the face of her performce since 2000. I mean, John Wayne Gacy was probably a *great*, very well-credentialed, clown.
I don't find being branded a "liberal" in appropriate context disagreeable in the least. Now, I do find its frequent, bombastic use in political shout media pretty repugnant. What I find much more disagreeable, and much more frightening, is the stampede by many politicos to avoid identification with it. That *is* the road to fascism, IMO.
Quote:
How's your resume' lookin?
Pretty Fair. Could be better. I think that if I was to be nominated to be the Secretary of State, I would probably want to buff it up a bit.
So, I guess I still aske "Where's the Beef?", and I guess we'll all be able to watch and see where it is or isn't
Boy, amd I glad I don't care about this stuff anymore.
(edit: too clever Jim ~= no Cyrillic support, I think. And a few typos)
Edited by jimhogan (27/01/2005 15:16)
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#247702 - 27/01/2005 14:48
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: schofiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
Big Deal! I want to see real achievements, like establishing a stabilised government in the mess called Iraq.
I wasn't alive at the time, but from what I've read it took longer than two or three years in Japan and Germany following WW2 to establish self-sustaining governments. Especially in Germany, "insurgent" attacks were quite common. I can even dig up some New York Times editorials from the time that claim how Germany was a "quagmire". My fear is that many of the people who opposed the war don't want to see success in Iraq and often ignore any successes that have happened there. Doing so would mean a Bush accomplishment and that would ruin the whole effect of someone's "cough" web site. Hopefully you're not in that crowd, but how odd it must be to wake up in the morning knowing that you're wishing for the same outcome as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
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Naziism was a form of socialism, not conservatism. Get YOUR story right. You are the one making this association, no-one else.
I didn't bring up the term "neocon", Tony did. I'm just saying that the lable was created to be unflattering and was popularized after the rise of the "neo-Nazi" movement clearly to try to make the loose association. The only two "neo-anythings" that have popular meaning are neo-con and neo-Nazi. And there is no shortage of "Bush = Nazi" signs are protest rallies or rock concerts. The irony is that the term is frequently used as slang for "Jew." I doubt that most people who use the word have any idea that is the case, but its originators undoubtedly did. My story is straight - look it up.
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Strange you choose to bring this up given what is happening today in Poland, or doesn't that matter to you? Hell no - I shouldn't have said that - I am being arrogant again by implying that outside the borders of the US there is a world going about it's daily business.
No, you're being arrogant by implying that I didn't already know about the commerations at Auschwitz today (or the coverage in the last week or so including a protest by a Muslim group in the UK against the commerations) and further arrogant in implying that I wouldn't care. Over here we don't have as much anti-Semitism and it's certainly not tollerated.
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Oh, and Colin Powell wasn't? Eh? Am I missing something here?
Maybe we're both confused. Colin Powell resigned. I may disagree with a few of his positions, but I have the upmost respect and admiration for the man and have for over a decade.
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Pushing a CV as an indication of the worth of a person, is to me, "arrogant" in the extreme.
Okay, I have to admit, I have no idea what a CV is... can someone help me out? Jim stated her qualifications as "Agree with W." I thought I'd add to that a bit. And I can't look at her little bio I pasted there and think that she isn't accomplished. Was it arrogant of me to paste that? I was just trying to be fair to her. I'm not calling anyone here a muppet.
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Brad B.
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#247703 - 27/01/2005 15:07
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
Big Deal! I want to see real achievements, like establishing a stabilised government in the mess called Iraq.
I wasn't alive at the time, but from what I've read it took longer than two or three years in Japan and Germany following WW2 to establish self-sustaining governments. Especially in Germany, "insurgent" attacks were quite common. I can even dig up some New York Times editorials from the time that claim how Germany was a "quagmire". My fear is that many of the people who opposed the war don't want to see success in Iraq and often ignore any successes that have happened there. Doing so would mean a Bush accomplishment and that would ruin the whole effect of someone's "cough" web site. Hopefully you're not in that crowd, but how odd it must be to wake up in the morning knowing that you're wishing for the same outcome as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
you're not going to find many "liberals" who don't want Bush to pull it out and fix things. you also won't find many who think he will. I don't want what al-Zarqawi does. But from here it certainly looks like it could turn into another Vietnam with another fall of Saigon in a few years.
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#247704 - 27/01/2005 15:08
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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CV: Curriculum Vitae. You use one when a resume wouldn't suit describing you because you've specialized. At least that's an overly simple way to look at it.
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#247705 - 27/01/2005 15:09
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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addict
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
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Quote:
Over here we don't have as much anti-Semitism and it's certainly not tollerated.
ha ha ha ha ha HFS hah ha ha!
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're either joking or haven't travelled much in the US.
_________________________
Heather
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony
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#247706 - 27/01/2005 15:10
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Could you do me a favor and edit this to read "And yet some liberals insist on calling her an 'Aunt Jamima' and some other liberals who call her a 'mildly smart, but idiotic, automaton.' " Thanks. Appreciate it.
Fair enough. If you want me to edit it, I will. I'm just not sure if you're really asking me to or just making a point, but point taken.
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My submission was a debating point and part of me has to admire your gumption in taking up the argument for the losing team.
Losing team? If your referring to the impeding "ganging up on" that I'm about to endure (it hasn't kicked in yet, your posts are still under 2,000 words ) you may have a point there. I'm sure once Bitt gets wind of this, it'll be impossible for me to physically have the time to reply to everything! But if you mean losing side of the issue, I disagree.
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I mean teaching, books, piano playing, and getting an oil tanker named after you?
Oil tanker?? Aw man, you just gave away your source... that parody George W. Bush resume right? I came across that this morning while looking for a quote for my post.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification of you post. As Napolean Dynamite would say, she has a great "skill set". I think it's unrealistic to ask for accomplishments on the world stage as a prerequisite for service as head of the State Department. Heck, Colin Powell was a war leader prior to her appointment - hardly a diplomatic post! That's like an astronaut not getting hired because he hasn't been to space before. The role of the National Security Advisor (technically, the position is called: Assistant to Pres, National Security Affairs) is a high profile but pretty limited job. The job is to basically co-ordinate intelligence information and advise the President. Her job is rarely to "carry out policy" or "force her will on the Executive Branch."
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Boy, amd I glad I don't care about this stuff anymore.
It doesn't show.
EDITTED FOR TYPO - thanks db
Edited by SE_Sport_Driver (27/01/2005 15:14)
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247707 - 27/01/2005 15:13
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
you're not going to find many "liberals" who don't want Bush to pull it out and fix things. you also won't find many who think he will. I don't want what al-Zarqawi does. But from here it certainly looks like it could turn into another Vietnam with another fall of Saigon in a few years.
At this point, we're both speculating, but I'm glad to know you're not among those rooting for failure so they can yell, "I told you so!" Afghanistan was called a quagmire and "the next Vietnam" too. I'm glad they were wrong on that one.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247708 - 27/01/2005 15:13
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Losing team? If your referring to the impeding "ganging up on" that I'm about to endure (it hasn't kicked in yet, you're posts are still under 2,000 words )
He is posts??
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#247709 - 27/01/2005 15:14
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Quote:
you're not going to find many "liberals" who don't want Bush to pull it out and fix things. you also won't find many who think he will. I don't want what al-Zarqawi does. But from here it certainly looks like it could turn into another Vietnam with another fall of Saigon in a few years.
At this point, we're both speculating, but I'm glad to know you're not among those rooting for failure so they can yell, "I told you so!" Afghanistan was called a quagmire and "the next Vietnam" too. I'm glad they were wrong on that one.
Uh. So Afghanistan is all safe now, Doctors without Borders has gone back, etc? WHEN??
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#247710 - 27/01/2005 15:19
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: Heather]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Over here we don't have as much anti-Semitism and it's certainly not tollerated.
ha ha ha ha ha HFS hah ha ha!
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're either joking or haven't travelled much in the US.
Nope, quite serious. Yes, in a country of 295,340,413 people, I'm sure you can list dozens and dozens of instances, but anti-Semetism is openly condemmed here in the USA. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware of the nuts who think that the world is run by 5 Jewish bankers on the top of some hill, but in contrast with parts of Europe, those people are hardly mainstream. The have to resort to secret little clubs and books etc. Maybe you're just hanging out with the wrong people?
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Brad B.
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#247711 - 27/01/2005 15:26
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Oil tanker?? Aw man, you just gave away your source... that parody George W. Bush resume right?
No, actually I bookmarked this page long ago to see if any other Bush cabinet members popped up on the list.
It is the Great Bush Oil Tanker Conspiracy, after all.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#247712 - 27/01/2005 15:26
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Quote:
Uh. So Afghanistan is all safe now, Doctors without Borders has gone back, etc? WHEN??
What are you expecting exactly? I doubt they have a great recycling program either. But considering they have had their first elections EVER in their history and peaceful ones at that (for some reason, this was barely covered by the press), I'd say they are doing pretty good. Not to mention the end of the Taliban's War on Women after decades of a crippleing economy and having never recovered from their war with the Soviet Union, I'd say they are making great progress and will continue to do so.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#247713 - 27/01/2005 15:28
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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I think it's unrealistic to ask for accomplishments on the world stage as a prerequisite for service as head of the State Department
ROFL  Chicken, egg - egg, chicken: chicken....
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Colin Powell was a war leader prior to her appointment - hardly a diplomatic post!
No, but at least he'd been out of the country at least once before, experienced dealing with other cultures with different societies and their mores, had direct experience of the results of failed diplomacy and was to a great extent respected by his international counterparts!
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That's like an astronaut not getting hired because he hasn't been to space before
Curiously enough, astronauts tend to be at least pilots with considerable flight experience first, or if not, have a critical speciality required for the forward mission!
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#247715 - 27/01/2005 16:39
Re: Rain Woman
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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addict
Registered: 04/09/2004
Posts: 525
Loc: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
Over here we don't have as much anti-Semitism and it's certainly not tollerated.
Well, I am a Jew, and I have been insulted, spit on, gun pulled on, knife pulled on, violence directed at, my cars trashed (and it's HARD to trash a junker!), had my home vandalized, and my family threatened. But that is to be expected from 'low brows'. But when someone calls me a 'Nazi', I have to laugh! Ignorance is such a preventable illness.
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