#257193 - 30/05/2005 07:41
memory board progress
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Hi.
I am building memory boards at this very moment, and the first 35 will ship over the next week or so. The remainder have been delayed by the PCB company cocking it up again, producing the 15 outstanding boards (delayed by a previous cockup) as 1.6mm thick rather than the correct 0.8mm. So they have to redo them, which will take another one to two weeks.
pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#257194 - 30/05/2005 11:43
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Are you hand soldering them? Or having it done by the board company? Or using a toaster oven?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Cheers
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#257195 - 30/05/2005 12:14
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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Hand built with love and care. Also solder and flux. And a soldering iron.
I was going to get them made by an outside company, but for various reasons this didn't happen this time around. Each one takes about 20 minutes to do, so I'm aiming for about 8 per day so as not to interfere with my other work.
pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#257196 - 30/05/2005 14:48
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Each one takes about 20 minutes to do
[soldering god at work]
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#257198 - 30/05/2005 15:48
Re: memory board progress
[Re: bonzi]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Yes, the board I have here looks much easier to install than I had thought. The throughholes (for soldering in) are HUGE, making them really easy to line up and get a moderate size soldering tip inside of.
Cheers
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#257199 - 30/05/2005 19:18
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
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Thanks - one of the guys at work will then be able to help me.
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Q#5196
MkII #080000376, 18GB green
MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue
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#257200 - 30/05/2005 19:54
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Will these boards be shipped directly to the installer of our choice if we specified one durring our order? Might be easier on you to send a bunch to the same place all at once. Thanks, I'm looking forward to it.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#257201 - 30/05/2005 21:29
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Heh.. So I'm sitting down here tonight to solder on the RAM chips for my own memory board (from PCA), and.. which way 'round do the chips go?
???????????
Cheers
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#257202 - 30/05/2005 21:49
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Heh.. So I'm sitting down here tonight to solder on the RAM chips for my own memory board (from PCA), and.. which way 'round do the chips go?
Well, to answer my own question, I've traced the RAS lines on the expansion board, and it appears the RAM chips should get installed oriented with pin-1 towards the top (longest edge) of the expansion board.
Cheers
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#257203 - 31/05/2005 00:44
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Wasn't there an Installation Guide in .pdf being talked about?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#257204 - 31/05/2005 01:43
Re: memory board progress
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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I think so, but it probably doesn't exist yet. And I'm actually below that level here.. I get to solder on my own RAM chips. Most of the boards come with the chips already on, courtesy of Patrick.
Anyway, I've put 48MB onto my board, at the rate of about one chip every 20 minutes (as opposed to 64MB every 20 minutes by you know who. Now to doctor it into one of the Mk2a's kicking around here..
Cheers
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#257205 - 31/05/2005 02:04
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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I would love to learn to solder but am not brave enough to take the chances learning on my empeg and memory 
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#257206 - 31/05/2005 11:21
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Now the big question..
I've populated only 48MB on my memory board, and would like to (continue to) use the existing 16MB of Mk2a memory as bank-0.
Any reason why this should not work (I expect it to, just haven't got that far yet).
And what are those dip switches for again?
Cheers
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#257207 - 31/05/2005 11:52
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Again answering my own questions: PCA wrote: Quote:
The board adds 4 identical banks of 16MB, and duplicates the bank0 set currently present on a MK2A. Obviously, this isn't going to work all that well. The idea is that each bank can be disabled by means of a switch on the memory board, so in the case of a MK2A you would turn off the first bank. This would still give you 64M, as the original memory would be used.
And elsewhere I found that RA3 needs to be jumpered over from the main board to enable the final 16MB (to 64MB). The other RA{0,1,2} lines appear to already be present from the test pads.
Now to hook it up, with photos along the way..
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#257208 - 31/05/2005 17:14
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay, I attached the board, got it partially working, fiddled with it for hours, and have now removed it again. Removal was suprisingly easy!
It seems trickier than first thought, to get good connections between the memory board and the main board.
Time for attempt number two.
Cheers
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#257209 - 31/05/2005 17:38
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Have any pics of the memory board attached to the main board?
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#257210 - 31/05/2005 18:25
Re: memory board progress
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Yes, I have pics.. I'll put them up later, once I get this thing working.
I've soldered it back on again now, but bank2 is failing..
-ml
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#257211 - 31/05/2005 23:15
A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay, I have 48MB total RAM out of a possible 64MB in my Mk2a. Here is my story, with photos. Cheers
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#257212 - 01/06/2005 01:09
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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My initial attempt at soldering on the memory expansion went well enough, but was a complete failure in the end. The problem was all of those pre-soldered pads that exist on the mainboard. I was clever enough to desolder many of them (with copper braid + flux) beforehand, but not all of them.
It is necessary to desolder all of the pads (on the main board) that will lie underneath the memory expansion board, as otherwise they will cause a gap between the two boards, preventing good signal connections later on.
Absolutely critical, and just enough fuss to turn an easy installation job into one that requires considerably more care and skill than imagined earlier.
Soldering on the expansion board is dead simple by comparism.
EDIT: So, I had to remove the installed memory board and start over. Fortunately, this proved MUCH easier than it looked. I just used a nice solder-sucker device to desolder all of the through-holes, and the board slipped off with no fuss. What a shocker!
After that, I spent an hour removing all of the solder from all of the pads on the main board that would fall anywhere beneath the expansion board. Except I missed a couple in the top right (photos).. but they didn't matter too much in the end. This rework made a huge difference, as the player then instantly reported 48MB working RAM.
The remaining 16MB is not working yet (well, half of it is..), but you'll have to tour the photo link above to see why..
Cheers
Edited by mlord (01/06/2005 01:13)
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#257213 - 01/06/2005 02:45
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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It looks like for a 32meg upgrade, it'd be easier/cheaper just to stack them. For 64meg, I'm sure this is a better solution.
_________________________
~ John
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#257214 - 01/06/2005 09:18
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Well, for +32MB or +48MB (or any Mk2 upgrade), these boards are rather good -- Patrick is selling them pre-populated, so finishing them off is just a matter of desolding the mainboard pads and then attaching the new board + the RAS3 line.
But yes, for a +16MB upgrade, just stacking the chips was easier for me.
Cheers
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#257215 - 01/06/2005 11:36
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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For me soldering the RAS line was the biggest PITA. Everything else was quite straightforward.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#257217 - 01/06/2005 23:06
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Awesome install pics, Mark. But, how can there be "ZERO gap between the two boards"? Won't there be shorts between traces and solder? I'm comfortable using computer hardware, but I'm always nervous about components touching.
<edit>Oh, and what kind of dock is that? Hm......
Edited by FireFox31 (01/06/2005 23:10)
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#257218 - 01/06/2005 23:20
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Won't there be shorts between traces and solder?
The bottom of Patrick's mem card is all nicely solder-masked, meaning it has a coat of that translucent green insulation goo all over it. So there's nothing on the underside to short out on anything, unless one scratches it.
And there's nothing unmasked on the bottom of the empeg main board either, except for the test pads.
Cheers
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#257219 - 02/06/2005 09:21
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Still worrying about that one - I have my stacked RAM, but no RAS line, as I buggered up the soldering once and too scared to try again. I am hoping to bribe someone with a steady hand at Amersfoort to finish the job for me.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#257220 - 02/06/2005 11:52
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Lots of flux (LOTS OF FLUX), a microscopic blob of solder on the iron, and the briefest of touches against the wire/pin.
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#257221 - 02/06/2005 13:46
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2091
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Absolutely - I actually found an old chip to practice on, and I had no problem with soldering at the RAM end (after reading your and Genixia's comments about Lots Of Flux  ) but can I get a connection to pin 124 on the StrongARM without touching 123 or 125? Can I 'eck as like! Even with the smallest soldering iron and bit I could find, and a helping hands tool, and a magnifying glass. I just can't seem to get a small enough blob of solder. So I have bought a bottle of Highland Park whisky specifically as a reward for someone who has the skill and 5 minutes of their time...they won't get the whisky until afterwards, obviously.
_________________________
Rory
MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock
MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#257222 - 02/06/2005 16:47
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: frog51]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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I was rather naughty in the end and simply lifted the pin off the board, soldered it and encased it in snot (rubbery silicone glue stuff).
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#257223 - 02/06/2005 21:12
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: frog51]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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What I find works in addition to large amounts of flux is to apply a very small amount of solder to the tip of the iron, then some of the solder onto the RAS line. This intermediary step helps to further diminish the amount of solder at the eventual joint at the Strong Arm pin. Then hold the end of the wire to the proper pin and briefly touch the iron to the end of the wire where the solder is.
I just think it's easier to transfer a small amount of solder from the tip of the iron onto the RAS wire then to take it directly to the wire and pin.
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#257224 - 02/06/2005 22:44
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Update:
My modded player developed stability issues -- random crashes and the like.
My theory is mechanical issues -- the memory expansion card adds a lot of stiffness to the main board, and when the main board is subsequently screwed back into the stainless steel enclosure, it wants to bend to match the enclosure screw posts (flat?). This puts stress on the connections between the two boards, and I think something just "gave" in the end.
So, I've put enough hours into this for now, and tonight I disassembled the player and removed the memory card again. Not quite as clean a removal this time around -- destroyed several of the test pads, but they're not really important or needed for anything other than the (removed) memory card, so no big deal.
Back to 16MB for now, but I do still have a couple of pairs of chips to do the stacking method with eventually.
Cheers
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#257226 - 06/06/2005 13:34
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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The first 10-15 boards should ship by the end of the week. Most of the rest will go out next week, with a bit of luck. I'm waiting for some antistatic bags to turn up, and finishing the manual.
pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#257227 - 06/06/2005 20:31
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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I can't wait! 
_________________________
Brad B.
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#257228 - 09/06/2005 00:05
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Any more updates Mark?
_________________________
Brad B.
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#257229 - 09/06/2005 01:39
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Any more updates Mark?
Err. not since I removed the memory board in the end (post above).
Of course, now I suppose I should find a new home for the memory board I have here (with chips).
Cheers
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#257230 - 16/06/2005 01:19
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Were these sent out? I was very early in the queue...
_________________________
Brad B.
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#257231 - 20/06/2005 14:49
Re: memory board progress
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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old hand
Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
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By the end of tomorrow, the first 25 boards will have shipped. There will be a slight delay for the next twenty-five.
pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#257232 - 20/06/2005 18:10
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
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Thank you, thank you! I hope I didn't come off as complaining about any delays or doubtful about any progress. Just curious.
_________________________
Brad B.
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#257234 - 23/06/2005 12:39
Re: A sample installation.. with photos
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
My modded player developed stability issues -- random crashes and the like.
Patrick has since emailed me about this, and he said that the culprit may be insufficient current flow from the power/ground test pads. To remedy this, he is recommending additional short jumper wires from another location of the main board to the memory board. Apparently Hugo's Mk2 player needed those, and works well now with 64MB + Mk2a_bootloader + latest Hijack.
I'm not redoing mine until I hear how others make out with their upgrades. Also, Patrick said something about finishing up the installation manual soon (if not already), which ought to help.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (23/06/2005 18:26)
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#257237 - 23/06/2005 15:26
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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The manual with revised wiring description are being written at this very moment.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners...  #00015
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#257239 - 23/06/2005 16:31
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Yup - I would suggest someone start a thread with a list of "parts wanted" for Amersfoort, and I'll make sure I have the bits ready. Gotta go!
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#257241 - 25/06/2005 18:35
Re: memory board progress
[Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
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#257243 - 25/06/2005 23:40
Re: memory board progress
[Re: mtempsch]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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In addition to the RAS line, you'll also need to run extra (SHORT!) power and ground signals from the capacitors on the main board just above the main board memory chips over to the capacitors on the memory board. One set of power and ground should do it, I'd think.
Failure to do this may result in all sorts of weird memory errors, or having things appear to work, and then fail when operating at a different temperature.
Cheers
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#257244 - 26/06/2005 23:34
Re: memory board progress
[Re: caseyse]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I just found the postal notice saying they tried to deliver my memory board on Saturday. Now I can go pick it up when I ship out buttons in the morning!
But then my only lit player goes to Eutronix for the upgrade. I will be back in the dark ages.
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#257245 - 28/06/2005 13:15
Re: memory board progress
[Re: schofiel]
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member
Registered: 30/06/1999
Posts: 179
Loc: Switzerland
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Any news on the manual for the memory board? Am I right that it is not yet available? (At least I have not found it) I've got the board yesterday and can't wait to upgrade the player. I don't need a full featured, colored manual. I'm happy with a simple step by step installation guide. 
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#257246 - 28/06/2005 15:06
Re: memory board progress
[Re: alex25]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
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Only a little while before it's ready.
_________________________
One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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#257247 - 28/06/2005 16:13
Re: memory board progress
[Re: schofiel]
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journeyman
Registered: 23/09/2003
Posts: 50
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Rockin'. Picked up my two boards from the post office today.
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#257248 - 18/07/2005 13:02
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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member
Registered: 24/02/2003
Posts: 111
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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Patrick,
Any update on when the next batch might be ready?
_________________________
No longer a stranger, finally a full-fledged member! 
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#257249 - 23/08/2005 14:26
Re: memory board progress
[Re: pca]
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member
Registered: 24/02/2003
Posts: 111
Loc: Elk Grove, CA
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Bump...is the second batch still on hold? I've held off ordering a larger hard drive and installing 3.0a11 until I have the memory board installed. I believe I was #32 in the queue.
Edited by Glen_L (23/08/2005 14:29)
_________________________
No longer a stranger, finally a full-fledged member!
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#257250 - 23/08/2005 14:35
Re: memory board progress
[Re: Glen_L]
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journeyman
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 96
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
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i guess we'll just have to wait... i have order #2 - pca's last reply in july was they'll go out soon. too bad there's a great deal of flexibility in the word 'soon'...  well i don't complain as i have no idea yet how i get those boards into my empegs...i really don't think i should do that myself... 
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. Not everyday you get to really live out your destructive urges. Better yet was that the old cabinets were fairly sturdy, none of the pressboard crap of today...
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