#262018 - 02/08/2005 15:13
Apple "Multibutton" mouse
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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If you haven't seen it yet, behold the Mighty Mouse
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#262019 - 02/08/2005 15:16
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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We were talking a bit about this over on the IRC channel. Looks like a nice compromise, though I think Apple's stodgy refusal to openly support multibutton mice until now was rather silly. Of course they market it as having "the looks of a single button mouse" as if multi-button mice are so horrible to look at.
I love Apple, but sometimes they take the style thing a wee bit too far.
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#262020 - 02/08/2005 15:20
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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And no bluetooth version? If there was i'd place my order now.
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#262021 - 02/08/2005 15:23
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: loren]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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Quote:
And no bluetooth version? If there was i'd place my order now.
I was just about to get my credit card out until I realised that it wasn't bluetooth.
Not so mighty in my eyes. Think I'll pass until they get a bluetooth one out.
Edit:
I've just been reading a mac forum and the general feeling over there seems to be "I'll wait until they release the bluetooth version" as well.
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#262022 - 02/08/2005 15:31
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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It's hilarious to read the comments section at Engadget about it. They're the predictable reactions of a few Mac worshipers battling a bunch of PC nuts. I really don't care much, but frankly I don't see how a Mac fan can defend the styling in this case. It's not like it looks like anything special. It's oval shaped. It's round. Big deal. It won't win any design awards or anything.
The one thing I'm wondering about is the little ball on top. What sort of mechanism does it use? I can't imagine it'll be terribly reliable in the long run.
Anyway, I'm happy to see them giving into the two button world. I don't know what I'd do without my context menus (that I don't need a keyboard for).
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Matt
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#262023 - 02/08/2005 15:33
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: sn00p]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Not so mighty in my eyes. Think I'll pass until they get a bluetooth one out.
Not to mention that for a chorded mouse with a supped-up scroll wheel, $50 is not acceptable. I don't care who makes it or what it looks like.
Oh, and I've been hearing a lot about how there's a little speaker in it that makes sounds for the clicking and ball movement...
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Matt
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#262024 - 02/08/2005 15:42
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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I'm not sold on the concept of (presumably) having to lift your finger away from the mouse and plant it back down to click, unless it's pressure sensitive rather than touch sensitive - either way I don't think it's going to feel very nice.
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#262025 - 02/08/2005 16:30
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: loren]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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Dave
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#262026 - 02/08/2005 17:17
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: webroach]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
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#262027 - 02/08/2005 17:27
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
I keep asking the same thing.
Sorry, none of those answers were satisfactory to me. I still don't see the advantage, especially given the headaches that bluetooth causes on Windows systems. I guess it's another one of those instances where a bunch of people have had good experiences with it, and I've had nothing but bad luck. I've had little luck with bluetooth in every instance that I've tried it, including a mouse, keyboard, two phones, a headset, and hands-free car system (in a very nice Lexus). It's either not worked at all, or been so buggy that it stresses me out. I'm certain that bluetooth technology has taken at least a few days off my life  (and definitely my phone's life after being chucked at my dashboard).
I'll stick with my Logitech RF wireless mice which have had precisely zero problems since I've owned them, going on 6 years.
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Matt
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#262028 - 02/08/2005 17:51
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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As far as the mouse goes, it's not a huge issue. It's nice for it to be wireless, obviously, and assuming that you're going to have other Bluetooth devices, it's nice for it to be a single protocol and a single (usually integrated) receiver.
As far as this particular mouse goes, we know that the only wireless one they'll produce will be Bluetooth, so just replace "Bluetooth" with "wireless" in the above statements.
The nice thing about Bluetooth in general is that it's a general purpose wireless peripheral protocol: think wireless USB. You can have mice, keyboards, serial devices (from serial ports to PPP to GPS), audio devices, etc. Also, there's a system by which you can "attach" a Bluetooth peripheral to a single computer so that you can have multiple Bluetooth-enabled computers sitting directly next to each other along with multiple peripherals and have them all talking to the correct thing. This was not as easy with RF-based wireless devices (though far from impossible). In addition, you can use that to do fancy things, like have the computer recognize that you're nearby because of a Bluetooth device you have on your person, like a phone.
Personally, I still think that the best single use of Bluetooth is Bluetooth headsets for cell phones. You can leave your phone in your pocket/purse and still be able to use it without wires trailing out of your pocket.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#262029 - 02/08/2005 17:51
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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old hand
Registered: 23/07/2003
Posts: 869
Loc: Colorado
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The big deal is that it tends to work seamlessly on the Mac.
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Dave
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#262030 - 02/08/2005 18:34
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Big deal. It won't win any design awards or anything.
You say that now. But with the hype around Apple products, it probably will win some award, to add to their list of others already won.
Quote:
There is already a two-button bluetooth mouse for Mac...
Yep. Thanks to the world of standard, USB multibutton mice and bluetooth mice have worked with no special software since OS X came out. Why the one button mouse has always been a big deal is beyond me. Noone complains in every post about HP how they don't ship a 8 button mouse standard with every machine. But yet, there was always someone waiting to post "One button mice suck" at the first sign of Apple in a news story. Now maybe they can move on to whining about something else. My Logitech MX 900 worked before this announcement with my Mac, and it continues to after the announcement. Big deal...
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I still don't see the advantage, especially given the headaches that bluetooth causes on Windows systems
Do you own a laptop? No? Then I can understand how you wouldn't see any advantages. I personally probably wouldn't see a ton of use in a bluetooth keyboard/mouse on a desktop. For me though, the less things I have to pack in the laptop carying case, the better. With Bluetooth on the Wintendo or Powerbook, I toss in the laptop, the power cord, and the mouse. Sometimes a keyboard as well. I don't have to then also remember an RF base station. I think of it similar to WiFi. I don't have to remember to keep a PCMCIA card with me on either system, since it's just built in.
Sure, Windows support isn't all that great, but for 3 years now, I've been syncing my cell phone contact list with my Mac, and using keyboards and mice with no dongles. If I lose my cell phone, I don't have to spend hours typing in phone contacts ever again. If I had a PDA, I could also sync it without worring about having the right cable or cradle for it. Thats the big deal. It's a shame most of your experience with Bluetooth has been with Microsoft products, because much like USB was in Windows 95/98, the experience would sour someone on it.
I still stand by Logitech making the best bluetooth devices for the computer, since they are the only company I know of with a bluetooth keyboard/mouse capable of working to get into the BIOS or during an OS install on an x86 based PC.
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#262031 - 02/08/2005 18:37
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
Remember the early days of USB? The Windows support was horrible, the drivers were horrible, etc. None of the devices would work with my other OS'es. I swore it would never last...and that I would stick to my beloved serial, parallel and ps/2 devices.
What a joke.
Bluetooth is the new USB. It's a good idea that early on was implemented badly almost universally. In a couple years we'll probably wonder how we did without it.
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~ John
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#262032 - 02/08/2005 18:49
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
The one thing I'm wondering about is the little ball on top. What sort of mechanism does it use? I can't imagine it'll be terribly reliable in the long run.
From the looks of it, it's one of those little clit pointers, like the pointers on the IBM thinkpad keyboards.
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#262033 - 02/08/2005 18:56
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
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here is a link to a review.
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#262034 - 02/08/2005 18:57
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: tfabris]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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Quote:
From the looks of it, it's one of those little clit pointers, like the pointers on the IBM thinkpad keyboards.
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#262035 - 02/08/2005 18:58
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I know I'll get flamed for it, and I know that in some aspects I'm buying into the Apple Kool-Aid, but I'm currently using the Apple one-button Bluetooth mouse because ... it matches the computer and keyboard.
I feel cheap saying that.
But if they're going to go to the effort of making a design statement, then using a differently designed mouse just seems wrong. PCs have been patchwork design basically forever (ever since the first PC clones came out) even if you get all your parts from the same manufacturer (and it's too bad there doesn't seem to be anyone out there willing to put a consistent design statement into PCs from the case to the peripherals like Apple does), but Macs just look nice (a subjective assessment, I know) and it seems wrong to ruin that with a mouse that doesn't match.
God, I feel dirty.
None of this excuses the puck mouse, though.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#262037 - 02/08/2005 19:03
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Of course they market it as having "the looks of a single button mouse" as if multi-button mice are so horrible to look at.
The interesting thing about the one button design is that they can ship it as their default mouse, and unless you turn on the bultibutton feature, it can act just like a one button mouse. This means that Apple's mythical typical-customer doesn't need to learn about right clicking unless they want to.
That being said, I want a bluetooth version, and I want to play with this thing for quite a while in an Apple store before I decide I actually want one.
Quote:
I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
As others have said, and I've said before, no dongles. Nothing you have to bring with you, nothing you have to have or install. Want to sync your PDA on the road? Just sync it. Want to grab the pictures off your camera phone? Just browse over and grab them. Want to use a mouse with your laptop? Just grab the mouse out of your bag and turn it on. Want to keep your GPS where it can see the sky and the PDA/computer navigating where you can see it? Do you want to be able to use your wireless peripherals with two computers? Do you want to use the handsfree kit in your car with every cell phone you buy instead of the classic analog motorola flip phone that your '99 mercedes came with? Every last one of these eliminates a (probably different and proprietary) cable you have to have and/or carry on the road with you.
Matthew
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#262038 - 02/08/2005 19:03
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
The one thing I'm wondering about is the little ball on top. What sort of mechanism does it use? I can't imagine it'll be terribly reliable in the long run.
From the looks of it, it's one of those little clit pointers, like the pointers on the IBM thinkpad keyboards.
That's not what I've been reading. I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be akin to a 360 degree scroll wheel. I tend to like scrolling on either axis, so it'll be interesting to see how people react to it once it's in use. It sure seems too small and too far back to be usefull. Logitech has that problem with its mice. They seem to think it's okay to put buttons under the palm, forcing you to move your hand down the mouse to hit it. Doesn't make much sense to me.
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Matt
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#262039 - 02/08/2005 19:20
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
As others have said, and I've said before, no dongles. Nothing you have to bring with you, nothing you have to have or install. Want to sync your PDA on the road? Just sync it. Want to grab the pictures off your camera phone? Just browse over and grab them. Want to use a mouse with your laptop? Just grab the mouse out of your bag and turn it on. Want to keep your GPS where it can see the sky and the PDA/computer navigating where you can see it? Do you want to be able to use your wireless peripherals with two computers? Do you want to use the handsfree kit in your car with every cell phone you buy instead of the classic analog motorola flip phone that your '99 mercedes came with? Every last one of these eliminates a (probably different and proprietary) cable you have to have and/or carry on the road with you.
And I want to do that soooooo badly! I would love it if it worked as flawlessly as most people here say it does (and I'm not talking about on PCs). How come it's just so damn frustrating? Maybe my problem is Sony Ericsson...
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Matt
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#262040 - 02/08/2005 19:22
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
I don't "get" bluetooth.
What's the big freaking deal?
1) internet from my cell phone without a cable (or even getting out the cell phone)
2) attaching to a gps on my dashboard without a cable running to it
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#262041 - 02/08/2005 19:33
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
I know I'll get flamed for it, and I know that in some aspects I'm buying into the Apple Kool-Aid, but I'm currently using the Apple one-button Bluetooth mouse because ... it matches the computer and keyboard.
I feel cheap saying that.
But if they're going to go to the effort of making a design statement, then using a differently designed mouse just seems wrong. PCs have been patchwork design basically forever (ever since the first PC clones came out) even if you get all your parts from the same manufacturer (and it's too bad there doesn't seem to be anyone out there willing to put a consistent design statement into PCs from the case to the peripherals like Apple does), but Macs just look nice (a subjective assessment, I know) and it seems wrong to ruin that with a mouse that doesn't match.
God, I feel dirty.
None of this excuses the puck mouse, though.
When I use a mouse, at this point it's the Microsoft Intellimouse optical. I won't juse anything else. However, these days it's usually just the touchpad on my laptop I use.
And puck mice will forever be the DEC VSXXX-AA (Hawley) mice. Not whatever crap has come since.
Edited by dbrashear (02/08/2005 19:34)
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#262042 - 02/08/2005 19:42
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
Maybe my problem is Sony Ericsson...
Of course, I've found that SE has the best bluetooth implementations. So YMMV. Really though, with windows, the bluetooth drivers are extreemely important. I had a belkin PC(MCIA) card with horrible drivers that hardly supported anything. When I got a Dell laptop with whatever software dell provides, it worked much better. Then I got a powerbook where bluetooth is amazingly smooth the the point where my bluetooth headset paired easily and then showed up as a sound output device in the control panel. The night I got my powerbook I was listening to streaming radio through my SE HBH-660 (great headset, btw). The sound quality was lacking, and I've never done it since, but that it was possible and easy was amazing.
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#262043 - 02/08/2005 19:45
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Fair enough. I used both that one (on DECstations at college) and the Apple round-but-useless mouse. That one was fine. For one thing, it was big enough to hold onto and click the buttons. The Apple one was so small that you had to either hold it with your fingertips, like some old lady holding her cup of tea, or mash it with your palm, clicking with the bottoms of the lower knuckles and holding your fingers out so that they wouldn't drag the ground. Ergonomics be damned!
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Bitt Faulk
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#262044 - 02/08/2005 20:05
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Fair enough. I used both that one (on DECstations at college) and the Apple round-but-useless mouse. That one was fine. For one thing, it was big enough to hold onto and click the buttons. The Apple one was so small that you had to either hold it with your fingertips, like some old lady holding her cup of tea, or mash it with your palm, clicking with the bottoms of the lower knuckles and holding your fingers out so that they wouldn't drag the ground. Ergonomics be damned!
I have 3 unkilled-by-nettrek VSXXX-AA mice around somewhere. One of these days I'm going to PS/2ize one of them.
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#262045 - 02/08/2005 20:15
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Am i right in thinking this is Tiger only at this point?
A friend of SWMBO's is getting a new ibook in a couple of weeks. Could i use her recovery disc to 'upgrade' my ibook? Or will it all end in tears?
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#262046 - 02/08/2005 21:17
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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A friend of mine just got a Mini, and new Macs come with Tiger. But it still had 10.3 preloaded and he had to upgrade from a DVD included in the box. Previous Macs had a sort of copy protection that would prevent you from using in-box OS media on different hardware than it was shipped with, but I don't know if that'll be the same with the upgrade disc.
So, in short: maybe, maybe not.
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Bitt Faulk
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#262047 - 03/08/2005 01:35
Re: Apple "Multibutton" mouse
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
None of this excuses the puck mouse, though.
Yes, puck mice were shamefull. Worse was if you bought a Mac at that time (or an entire lab-full like my college did), you had to also buy "puck mouse extenders" to make them actually usable.
Now, the only other one button Mac mouse that I respect (besides the classic polygonal IIgs mouse) is the no button mouse. Making the entire mouse into the button, while preventing it from constantly clicking, is some slick design.
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