#264062 - 31/08/2005 08:31
Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm about to do my second return at Staples because neither of the wireless boxes I bought so far will do this very simple thing:
I'm looking for the thing labeled "Mythical Black Box" in that diagram. I thought any old configurable wireless router would do. SIGH.
Both of the boxes I bought so far would have worked as the main access point, allowing other clients to connect to them. But I couldn't get them to act as a client or bridge to that access point. And I need that existing wireless router to remain my central hub because it's also my DSL modem.
One of the devices I bought, a Belkin F5D7230, looked very promising. And from the looks of all the setup screens, it should have worked. But it just wouldn't connect to the main AP, even when I activated bridging mode and gave it the setting where it was a pure wireless access point and not a router/firewall. (I forget their term for that last configuration tweak.)
The second thing I got was a netgear WGR 101. This was a mistake because I totally misread its purpose. See, I thought its purpose was to be plugged in like this:
Laptop->Wire->Netgear - > wireless - > hotel wireless lan
When in fact it was backwards of that:
Laptop - > wireless - > Netgear->Wire->hotel wired lan
So I couldn't get that one to work, either.
The Belkin tech support people told me the F5D7330 is what I want. In fact, they specifically told me that the 7230 I'd bought would NOT do what I want. The instructions only showed my 7230 supporting bridging if it was the main central hub, but not if it was one of the clients. Anyway, the guy I spoke to was in India and I'm not entirely trusting him. Not because he's from india, but just because the language barrier made it hard to describe what I wanted to do. And anyway, I don't think they have that one at Staples (Since I've been buying these things at Staples to make returns easy).
Anyone know of an inexpensive 54G router that'll do what I want in that illustration?
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#264063 - 31/08/2005 09:05
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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If the box you speak of is mythical, then I feel priveleged to have four of them, "them" being Linksys WRT54G routers. In WDS mode, they all act as APs, but using WDS links, they all form the same network. In the attached diagram, "barney" is the main router that connects to the cable modem as the "main" router, and the other three function as bridges, with no firewall/routing capabilities to speak of. The dotted lines are all wireless links.
You do need to install 3rd party firmware to get WDS, I use Sveasoft Alchemy Final firmware, which is now freely available. It's pretty easy to configure with the web interface and such. And I feel confident enough in my network's security that I'm giving all of you my internal IPs. 
Incidentally, "moe" and "itchy" in the diagram are in the trunk and dash of my car, respectively. 
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#264064 - 31/08/2005 09:13
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
[elaborate home-network diagrams]
You folks have too much time on your hands. Anyway all you want is an ethernet-to-wireless bridge. I've used a Linksys WET11, and the 54G version of it is either WGA54G or WET54G. If you want to do it with an AP, you'd need one that can be put into client mode.
Peter
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#264065 - 31/08/2005 10:37
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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You should be able to get an old WET11 fairly cheaply on ebay. The mk1 units are better because you can replace the puny wlan card with a chunkier senao unit and also you can easily mod for power over ethernet by adding a couple of links. You're more likely to find the mk2 units which aren't as hackable.
I would've thought 11meg would be more than enough for a rio receiver.
BTW, tonyc, I like your schematic, what did you do it in?
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#264066 - 31/08/2005 10:54
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
You folks have too much time on your hands.
Quote:
BTW, tonyc, I like your schematic, what did you do it in?
20 minutes in OmniGraffle (Mac.)
Quote:
WGA54G
Quote:
WET54G
Those will work too, but when I went shopping, the prices were higher than the $59.99 one can get a WRT54G for. And still are, at least on Amazon. The WRT54G will do everything those do and more. The one caveat I'll add is I wasn't able to get client mode working on a WEP-encrypted network, but WDS works fine over WEP/WPA, and has the added bonus of extending my wireless network's range. (If it's not obvious, WDS eliminates the need for client mode by bridging its 4 LAN ports to your WLAN.)
Quote:
WET11
Danger, Will Robinson. Keep in mind that if you go with the WET11. you'll have to run your network in mixed mode (802.11b/g) and the transmission rate of your (g) clients will drop precipitously. If you already have (b) devices on your network, or the speed drop isn't an issue, then the WET11 will surely be the cheaper option.
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#264067 - 31/08/2005 10:58
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Tony, I have two Motorola WE800G bridges I'm looking to part with. They're used, but come complete in the original boxes and look brand new. PM me for the (low) price.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#264068 - 31/08/2005 12:04
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
20 minutes in OmniGraffle (Mac.)
Looks like I've found my replacement for Visio.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#264069 - 31/08/2005 12:18
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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The tiny D-Link DWL-G730AP has B/G client modes, and can do this in theory. But the one I have here has somewhat limited range, and may not be suitable for 2nd floor to basement transmissions.
-ml
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#264070 - 31/08/2005 12:45
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/03/2002
Posts: 225
Loc: San Diego, California USA
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Hi Tony,
A year or two ago I had essentially the same issue as you, how to get a wireless connection to the garage so my Rio receiver could connect to the house network and ultimately my Rio Central to stream tunes in the garage.
All my stuff was/is Linksys, so I wanted to stay with their products to make it easier to configure and for compatibility, etc. I probably didn't have to do that, but I did.
The only product of theirs that would do the job for me was two WAP54G units. I already had a WRT54G Wireless G Router, but nothing I bought would connect the Rio to it and work properly. Like you, I returned several boxes before I bit the bullet and bought the two WAP54G units. They worked fine right out of the box...
Yeah, I know, it cost more than the Rio to begin with, but I did get it to work...And it's great to have Rio Central tunes in the garage when I'm working out there...
Good Luck on your project.....
Randy
_________________________
Happy owner of 2 Centrals, 2 Empegs Mk2a 160GB, 1 Empeg Mk2a 60 GB, a Rio Riot, 4 Rio Receivers, and two 1GB iPod Shuffles...
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#264071 - 31/08/2005 14:39
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 10/01/2001
Posts: 630
Loc: Windsor, Ontario Canada
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Hey Tony
I used a WET11 for about 3 years with my old Rio Receiver/TB Audiotron and it worked just great. It's in storage (I'm using wireless G now) and available if you want it...pay for the shipping and it's yours.
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#264072 - 31/08/2005 17:13
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Very cool info, everyone, thanks! And... awesome diagram, Tony. Quote:
I feel priveleged to have four of them, "them" being Linksys WRT54G routers.
Okay the questions below apply to the WRT54G units as well as every other unit suggested in this thread:
- Will they only work when connecting up to other units of the same brand/model? Or would they properly connect to an unrelated router (in my case the Actiontec unit)?
- Do they support WPA-PSK encryption with TKIP preshared key string?
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#264073 - 31/08/2005 17:24
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I have two Motorola WE800G bridges I'm looking to part with.
The specs don't say WPA. Do you know if they support WPA?
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#264074 - 31/08/2005 17:31
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Keep in mind that if you go with the WET11. you'll have to run your network in mixed mode (802.11b/g) and the transmission rate of your (g) clients will drop precipitously
If I have my current router set up to do mixed mode, and it only has one client so far (the mac), and the client is set to connect at G, am I slowing down the network anyway just because I've configured it for mixed mode?
Quote:
he one caveat I'll add is I wasn't able to get client mode working on a WEP-encrypted network, but WDS works fine over WEP/WPA, and has the added bonus of extending my wireless network's range. (If it's not obvious, WDS eliminates the need for client mode by bridging its 4 LAN ports to your WLAN.)
Would I need to set the central router (the Actiontec) any special way for this mode to work?
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#264075 - 31/08/2005 17:39
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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And... Just to be clear...
Are you saying the WRT54G will do this job, but only with open-source firmware?
Are you saying the WAP54G will do this job with the stock firmware but it's simply a bit more expensive? (Ten bucks according the staples web site.)
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#264076 - 31/08/2005 17:56
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Do they support WPA-PSK encryption with TKIP preshared key string?
The Dlink tiny thing does, but the range may not be sufficient.
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#264077 - 31/08/2005 18:02
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I have two Motorola WE800G bridges I'm looking to part with.
The specs don't say WPA. Do you know if they support WPA?
Pretty sure they don't.
If anyone wants them, they're $25 a piece and I'll pay shipping within the US (and maybe slow boat to Canada).
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#264078 - 31/08/2005 18:02
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
And... Just to be clear...
Are you saying the WRT54G will do this job, but only with open-source firmware?
Are you saying the WAP54G will do this job with the stock firmware but it's simply a bit more expensive? (Ten bucks according the staples web site.)
I believe it will only work with the replacement firmware, as that is what opens up WDS. It's better firmware anyway, just like regular Linksys firmware updates (which are quite easy to install).
I really only replaced the firmware on mine so that I could bump up the antenna power, an option they keep locked normally. You can greatly increase the signal strength with that.
So that "Actiontec" (who thought up that name?) is a modem/router in one? It might make it tricky, but I wasn't able to get the whole WRT54G-as-AP thing to work anyway, but I know a ton of people have.
_________________________
Matt
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#264079 - 31/08/2005 18:28
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
So that "Actiontec" (who thought up that name?) is a modem/router in one?
Yeah, it's the ISP's DSL modem, with a router, a wireless router, and a firewall built in.
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#264080 - 31/08/2005 18:33
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Worst case scenario is that you just use that as a modem and put your own equipment behind it.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#264081 - 31/08/2005 19:20
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Yeah, but I'm trying to avoid having too many wireless devices in my house if possible.
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#264082 - 31/08/2005 23:21
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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member
Registered: 06/04/2000
Posts: 158
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? "too many"..."devices in my house" ?
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#264083 - 01/09/2005 01:00
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Gah. Well OK, Staples did not have a WRT54G. Or a WAP54G. Or a WET54G.
They had:
WRT54G-c (compact)
WRT54g-s (speed boost)
WRT54-AG (A+G router)
WGA54G (Game adapter)
I got the Game adapter because its box showed very clearly doing almost exactly the thing I wanted to do: Hook up a standalone device to a wireless network. And it's one that Peter recommended.
Well, I've been messing with the thing for a long time and it keeps ALMOST working, but it doesn't have a built-in DHCP server and I'm having trouble getting it to route the traffic from its input into my LAN. I can get it to connect to the lan and all, I just can't seem to talk to the LAN once it's connected. GAH.
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#264084 - 01/09/2005 03:40
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Yeah, probably should have mentioned that they don't seem to have many WRT54G routers available anymore. Even online. I'm having difficulty finding it at the moment, but I could have sworn that the Alchemy firmware was available for the speed booster version as well. Now I'm looking at the Sveasoft homepage, and they seem to have this new firmware called Talisman. That seems strange, as the public release of Alchemy was pretty recent. Anyway, here's their page. The only problem is that they make it insanely difficult to find the download page for the firmware. I originally ended up paying because I thought it was required. Yes, it's open source, but there was some controversy over their payment methods, and the confusion led to me giving them my money. Oh well, I got good use out of it I downloaded the firmware from here. You have to register with them to get it. Ah, it seems that Talisman is the next release, but currently in beta form. It might be time for me to finally download and install Alchemy...
_________________________
Matt
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#264085 - 01/09/2005 03:41
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Here's how it's listed on Linksysinfo: Quote:
Sveasoft Alchemy Popular
Alchemy-V1.0.bin.zip
Alchemy-V1.0 public release.
SVEASOFT FIRMWARE FOR THE LINKSYS WRT54G AND WRT54GS ROUTER. USE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK.
This firmware is for WRT54G V1.0, V1.1, V2.0, V2.2 and WRT54GS V1.0, V1.1 routers only.
Alchemy-V1.0 is a unified firmware for both G and GS models. This firmware can only be upgraded using the web interface. IF YOU HAVE A FIRMWARE UPGRADE FAILURE WITH ALCHEMY - you must use an older firmware version whose size is under 3,145,000 bytes and reflash using tftp. Reflashing with tftp will not work with firmware versions larger than 3,145,000 bytes in size.
Always reset your router to defaults after upgrading.
Version: 1.0
Compatibility: WRT54G / WRT54GS
Filesize: 3.41 MB
Added on: Aug-12-2005
Downloads: 3898
_________________________
Matt
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#264086 - 01/09/2005 05:21
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I'm so frustrated, I can't get this thing to route.
It's got a setup screen where I can put in a gateway. It's also got a way of grabbing a DHCP address, but I've only seen it successfully do that once. But no matter whether I leave that to automatic, or put in my Actiontec address as a gateway, none of the packets from the connected PC ever get through to the Actiontec or its LAN. Grr.
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#264087 - 01/09/2005 06:11
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Ah. Figured it out.
It's all about the MAC ADDRESS CLONING.
See, I'd set up my Actiontec router to only accept certain MAC addresses. It all worked, until I fed it this thing, which (by default) clones the wired MAC address into the wireless MAC address. And I hadn't put the wired MAC address into the acceptables list.
So it would connect to the LAN with its initial wireless mac address, but then get no further because its cloned address wasn't allowed access.
So now I've disabled the MAC address cloning on the thing, and it seems to work, but sometimes its settings don't stick. Not sure how to trust that. Hm.
Special thanks to Drakino, who, in a two-minute IM conversation, let me bounce my complaints off of him and suggested that I try the thing without security to see if it worked.
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#264088 - 01/09/2005 10:22
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Just put both MAC addresses into the accept list, turn on cloning and be done with it.
_________________________
~ John
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#264089 - 01/09/2005 13:20
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
but it doesn't have a built-in DHCP server
What do you want another DHCP server for??? Just one on the entire wired+wireless network should suffice.
???
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#264090 - 01/09/2005 19:49
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Just put both MAC addresses into the accept list, turn on cloning and be done with it.
Yes, that would have been another option. Turns out that the unit *DOES* remember the cloning value, so I didn't need to do that.
Quote:
What do you want another DHCP server for??? Just one on the entire wired+wireless network should suffice.
Yup, you're right, I didn't need another DHCP server. The problem was that, until I solved the MAC address security issue, nothing downstream from that router was getting DHCP from the server. So I thought it was an addressing issue. Once I solved the MAC cloning problem, then everything worked.
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#264091 - 02/09/2005 04:52
Re: Help: Need wireless box for to plug Rio Receiver into it.
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
WRT54G V1.0, V1.1, V2.0, V2.2 and WRT54GS V1.0, V1.1
One of these versions has a bad rep for not staying online after xx megs of traffic. There is supposed to be a firmware fix for that. The problem is in the hardware and doesn't seem to be fixable via firmware.
Do you think that rep may have something to do with why they are being dropped?
BTW: If any one is machosickstic(tm) enough, I have one of those (the one with the hardware problem), Free to whoever will pick it up / pay for shipping.
Just remember "Sometimes free is too high a price to pay!"
_________________________
Glenn
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