#279590 - 16/04/2006 20:41
Please help! KVM hell.
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Hi All,
Am visiting a close friend for Easter today and I'm trying to help him diagnose an issue he's having...
He has a Dell laptop (610) that's docked. He has the VGA going to a Viewsonic flat panel, and the DVI going to a 2 port KVM switch, which is also fed by a Mac Mini - the KVM output is going to a Sony LCD. When we switch to the Mac Mini, all is fine, when we switch to the Dell, the Sony LCD will not get itself out of standby.
I attached a diagram which shows the set up.
I've checked all of the drivers, the firmware, etc - all are current. When we hook up the Dell directly to the 2 LCD's, they come up perfectly. Also, when I boot the Dell with the KVM set to use the DVI from the Dell, the boot screen up may come up on the Sony, until XP is near done booting, at which point I can no longer get the Sony to be used. So it seems like a problem with XP...
You guys have any ideas? I'm stuck...
- Thanx
- Jon
Attachments
279991-KVM-hell.jpg (126 downloads)
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#279591 - 17/04/2006 00:42
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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No ideas? You guys are making a liar out of me!!!
- Jon
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#279592 - 17/04/2006 00:51
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Sounds like it might be a refresh rate issue. Try seting the PC to the same refresh rate at the Mac.
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Chad
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#279593 - 17/04/2006 01:49
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: Attack]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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I'm with Attack. Look at scan speed and resolution first. Do you have the documentation for the KVM? It may shed light.
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#279594 - 17/04/2006 03:51
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: Ezekiel]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Paul tried setting the refresh to be the same (60 Hz), no joy...
I read through the dox, couldn't find anything that might be of use. I did learn a few things. Didn't know that you could change a KVM device with built in XP commands (double scroll lock key combos)...
Any other ideas appreciated.
- Thanx
- Jon
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#279595 - 17/04/2006 04:29
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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I'm no technical person, but I'll throw this in just in case: I have a Sony viao desktop and thought that I would use my DVI output to my plasma screen and the VGA to feed through a TV converter to our kitchen TV, but the DVI and VGA don't work simultaneously, which, in non-technical terms is just about where you are.
I should have added that, at the time, I took it to the Company who provided the support at my office who connected screens to both outputs and spent a long time playing about, but couldn't solve the problem.
Edited by boxer (17/04/2006 04:44)
_________________________
Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#279596 - 17/04/2006 04:41
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Not the same problem, he said: Quote:
When we hook up the Dell directly to the 2 LCD's, they come up perfectly.
So he doesn't have the issue that the Dell can't use DVI and VGA simultaneously, at least when the KVM isn't involved.
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#279597 - 17/04/2006 04:46
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
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Quite right, I'd missed that point! - You're an early riser too, I should be out walking the boxers, but it's tipping it down here.
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Politics and Ideology: Not my bag
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#279598 - 17/04/2006 04:54
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: boxer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I've got a big deadline for a project today, I've been working 18 hours a day for the last couple of days to try and meet it  On the plus side, it is beautifully sunny here...
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#279599 - 17/04/2006 09:07
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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Have you tried lowering the resolution? I have a KVM that couldnt handle having the resolution as high as the card could handle.. put em at 800x600 and see if it works.
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#279600 - 17/04/2006 09:24
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: SonicSnoop]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Another question. I know you have tried direct connect without the KVM. Have you tried booting the laptop / docking station with the KVM connected and switched to the PC? I am wondering if the Dell needs to see the DVI at boot.
Another thought. I know that some laptops (particularly IBM Thinkpad variations) have a lot of trouble running with KVMs when docked (more typically mouse than monitor trouble). Have you tried a DVI / switch connection undocked?
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#279601 - 17/04/2006 10:10
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Resolution will be your resoulution.  -Z
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#279602 - 17/04/2006 10:27
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: Ezekiel]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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<groan>
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#279603 - 17/04/2006 11:21
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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I have KVM's that require a signal from the PS2 keyboard before it would send the video signal to the monitor. This would be for each port on the KVM. Do you have the KVM connected to the PC keyboard and mouse ports? I also have a PC that the keyboard won't work if the KVM isn't switched to it before the PC is turned on.
_________________________
Chad
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#279604 - 17/04/2006 11:26
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Try pressing the power button (twice) on the monitor when it seems stuck in standby.
I have an (other brand) LCD panel here (also on a KVM) that sometimes forgets to come back from standby, and just tapping it's (soft) power button twice does the trick. Rare event, though.
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#279605 - 17/04/2006 12:08
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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When I was there, I tried all kindsa resolutions, no joy. Also, the manual says it supports up to 1600x1200 for DVI.
He doesn't have any of the PS2 cables hooked up to the KVI... The Mini has a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and he uses a Logitech wireless on the Dell. Hm. Do you think it's needed? That's a possibility.
I also tried to boot the Dell with the KVM set to display the Dell through to the Sony. I thought that the Dell might be disabling the DVI when it no longer sees a signal from the Sony, but I don't think that's it. I can't get the Dell to recognize a 2nd monitor no matter what I do when it's going through the KVM.
I've also tried mlord's suggestion in taking the Sony out of standby so that the Dell could see it. No joy there either...
Without the Dell docked, there's no DVI port on the laptop, so I couldn't try an undocked solution.
Are there different types of DVI cables? Is DVI bi-directional? I told Paul to try another cable as it seems that perhaps the Dell isn't receiving whatever signal is needed to tell the Dell that there's an active monitor on the DVI...
- Jon
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#279606 - 17/04/2006 12:22
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
He doesn't have any of the PS2 cables hooked up to the KVI... The Mini has a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and he uses a Logitech wireless on the Dell. Hm. Do you think it's needed? That's a possibility.
My cheap KVM at home will not select a PC unless there's a PS/2 device (usually a keyboard) connected. Regardless of there being a signal on the VGA port.
Come to think of it, the expensive KVM I have at work is exactly the same....
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#279607 - 17/04/2006 14:32
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
He doesn't have any of the PS2 cables hooked up to the KVI... The Mini has a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and he uses a Logitech wireless on the Dell. Hm. Do you think it's needed? That's a possibility.
That's the problem -- the KVM needs a PS2 cable to draw power from for it's internal circuits.
Cheers
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#279608 - 17/04/2006 14:40
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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If you look at the diagram it claims that the PS/2 socket on the KVM is actually hooked up to the Dell.
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#279609 - 17/04/2006 14:41
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: mlord]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
He doesn't have any of the PS2 cables hooked up to the KVI... The Mini has a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and he uses a Logitech wireless on the Dell. Hm. Do you think it's needed? That's a possibility.
That's the problem -- the KVM needs a PS2 cable to draw power from for it's internal circuits.
Cheers
Well, he was using a PS2 cable to power the KVM, but we switched that for an AC power cable. Other than providing power, is the PS2 cable important in any other way? We were only trying to use the KVM for video...
- Jon
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#279610 - 17/04/2006 14:51
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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What is KVM model? Every PS2 KVM I've used required the PS2 keyboard connection to be active on the port I wanted to have video on.
_________________________
Chad
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#279612 - 17/04/2006 16:41
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Erm. It is the 7th item down on the Switches / Cables page...
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#279613 - 17/04/2006 16:43
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: tman]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Erm. It is the 7th item down on the Switches / Cables page...
Ah. Thanks. Missed it when I looked at that page...
- Jon
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#279614 - 17/04/2006 17:54
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Quick question - were you using any type of DVI to analog adapter cable between the Dell and the KVM?
The reason I ask is that I pulled my hair out for 1/2 a day while (Ghost) imaging an Optiplex. It would display until it switched to the higher resolution mode just before the login prompt (I thought I had a display driver mismatch between the Ghost image and the Optiplex). It turned out that replacing the cable from a DVI/Analog adapter (to the analog input on monitor) to a straight DVI cable (to the DVI input on the monitor) fixed the issue.
Why it fixed the issue I have no idea, but it did, so I thought it couldn't hurt to ask here.
-Zeke
_________________________
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#279615 - 17/04/2006 18:04
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: Ezekiel]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Nope, no adaptors used at all...
- Jon
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#279616 - 17/04/2006 18:34
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
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Ok, well then I'm officially out of ideas. Sorry!
-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?
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#279617 - 17/04/2006 21:10
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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Does the laptop require you to hit the function key along with a specific number key or F key to activate/cycle through the displays? maybe thats needed to activate the DVI port? If this has already been brought up sorry.
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#279618 - 17/04/2006 21:26
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: SonicSnoop]
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veteran
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 1429
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Does the laptop require you to hit the function key along with a specific number key or F key to activate/cycle through the displays? maybe thats needed to activate the DVI port? If this has already been brought up sorry.
Hm. Well, when we had it directly connected to the Sony LCD, we could select the monitor with XP, click "extend my desktop to this monitor", and we'd be good to go. When we go through the KVM, it would allow you to make the change, but when you applied it, XP wouldn't enable the DVI and turn on the monitor. The box that represented monitor 2 on the XP setup screen would go grey...
- Jon
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#279619 - 18/04/2006 16:07
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: jbauer]
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new poster
Registered: 18/04/2006
Posts: 3
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Hey All,
I'm Jon's friend, Paul. The guy with KVM madness. After a short discussion, we thought it would be good of me to login and introduce myself. So here goes... My name is Paul but my friends call me, well, um, "Paul". I'm a Capricorn and enjoy rainbows and unicorns. I also, according to my wife, work best with a cluttered work space with countless devices laying about the desktop in various states of operation. Seems to keep me focused and out of trouble. Except of course when they don't behave in an expected manner, to which end I spend more time and money.
You have all made great suggestions and have given me a few more options to explore before I go out and just buy an effing 3rd monitor to hang on the wall. I have a similar work station in the corporate office with access to another (more expensive) KVM where I will likely continue these efforts.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again!
-P
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#279620 - 18/04/2006 23:29
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: pschilling1]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I'm a Capricorn and enjoy rainbows and unicorns.
Haven't laughed so hard at a first post in my life. 
Welcome!
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#279621 - 25/04/2006 20:01
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: tfabris]
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new poster
Registered: 18/04/2006
Posts: 3
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UPDATE.....
I am now in my corporate office running the same setup described earlier with a few exceptions:
1) using two dell flatscreens (no Sony).
2) using a G5 Mac (not a mini)
3) using an IOGEAR MINIVIEW DVI 4 PORT USB KVMP Switch w/ supplied cables and power supply
4) Not using wireless keboards (all inputs connected directly to their respective PC)
I suspect the problem is with the $67 KVM switch at home. I'll drop $200 for the IOGEAR and hope for the best. Think I'll sell my wireless mac inputs as well to help soften the blow and free up some desk space for my next device.
Cheers!
-P
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#279622 - 25/04/2006 20:09
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: pschilling1]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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If you have two pcs right next to each other you may want to check out multiplicity by stardock.. allows you to use a single mouse and keyboard on multiple pcs.. very nice.. I think they even just added mac support..
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#279624 - 25/04/2006 22:04
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: pschilling1]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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Nice glad its working
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#279625 - 25/04/2006 23:17
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: SonicSnoop]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Or just use Win2VNC. It makes a second computer+monitor accessible just like it was a second monitor on the first computer. Handy.
Edit: Oh. Looks like Multiplicity does the exact same thing, but for money. It might run a little faster.
Edited by wfaulk (25/04/2006 23:18)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#279626 - 26/04/2006 06:38
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: SonicSnoop]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
If you have two pcs right next to each other you may want to check out multiplicity by stardock..
If you're looking at things like that, I would recommend also taking a look at Synergy while you are at it.
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#279627 - 26/04/2006 06:43
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: sein]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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Hmm thats pretty cool, wonder how it runs compared to multiplicity.. Will have to download it and give it a try.. Thanks!
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#279628 - 26/04/2006 07:07
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Or just use Win2VNC.
Or there's Synergy, which purports to do the same. I've not used it, though -- I tend to use two monitors plugged into my Windows box, and then have a nearly full screen VNC session open on one of them to the Linux box.
As far as the iogear stuff goes: I've got a small two-port PS/2 KVM from them, and it's great. I'm just annoyed that they don't have a stockist in the UK, because I'm looking to replace it with a 4-port DVI-capable one (although it'd be nice if they did a dual-DVI model).
_________________________
-- roger
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#279629 - 26/04/2006 11:53
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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I was looking up and down the IOGear pages last night. No solutions for dual-DVI equipped machines and their DVI support maxes out at a measly 1600x1200 which is only good for up to a 20" 4:3 display.
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#279630 - 26/04/2006 14:03
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: hybrid8]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Well, 1600x1200 is the offical limit of the single link dvi spec, so I'd bet their kvm would work with any single link dvi monitor. I could easily be wrong.
Matthew
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#279631 - 27/04/2006 00:07
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Well, I suppose it's the highest resolution VESA mode for single link DVI. There are othe non-VESA modes and also modes with reduce blanking interval at higher resolutions. I don't know why I forgot about that. It's entirely possible the KVM will work with those modes as well. Apple's 1920x1200 displays all work this way for example.
Bruno
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#279632 - 27/04/2006 00:30
Re: Please help! KVM hell.
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
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Quote:
Quote:
If you have two pcs right next to each other you may want to check out multiplicity by stardock..
If you're looking at things like that, I would recommend also taking a look at Synergy while you are at it.
I use Synergy between two windows boxes. The latest 1.3.0 version seems to run without major problems. The only issue I see currently is that when the server box goes into lockscreen, the extra mouse buttons, those beyond three, seem to lose function.
Synergy's software is setup so that all installs are potentally server or client. Config file settings determine which way it runs.
Oh, Some apps, them that can swamp the cpu, can sometimes make it difficult to move the mouse off of that monitor to the next. Multi cpu systems seem to have an advantage here.
Edited by gbeer (27/04/2006 00:35)
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Glenn
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