#289761 - 19/11/2006 00:08
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Cool I need to go get a tuner card.
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Matt
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#289762 - 19/11/2006 01:19
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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From the info on the replay website it sounds like the suggestions still work like the stand alone replay did in where it just picks shows from a genre you choose  .
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Matt
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#289763 - 19/11/2006 14:12
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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Well I got the 8.1 software from Tivo and it is much faster and appears to have fixed the bugs in the previous version.
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Matt
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#289764 - 19/11/2006 19:44
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31600
Loc: Seattle, WA
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What?!? Us HD DirecTivo users waited two years for version 6, we just get it, and now you're telling us the SD units are at version 8? Argh.
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#289765 - 19/11/2006 20:58
PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay people. Is it just MythTV, or perhaps the Hauppauge PVR-500 card, or do analog TV MPEG encoders all suck when it comes to picture quality?
On the strongest local channels (this is all over-the-air [OTA] stuff), the Myth box is just about as good quality as watching TV via the VCR's tuner.
On the medium strength channels, the VCR is definitely superior, but the Myth box does the job well enough to avoid headaches while viewing.
On the weakest "local" (70 ? miles away) channel, the Myth is incredibly blotchy and blinking, whereas the VCR image just looks somewhat fuzzy but good.
Unfortunately, this particular channel (WPBS) is the one we watch and tape from the most often by far. We have a dedicated high-gain UHF antenna and amplifier just for this one channel, as otherwise it doesn't even show up at all.
I *think* I've told Myth to use the highest bitrate possible, though it's not entirely clear that it is doing so.
For the two digital ATSC (HD TV) channels, those are both fantastic quality as one would expect. The funny thing is, WPBS also has a digital transmitter, which we just get the slightest hint of.. so close, yet so far..
What to do.. ? (we already have the best antenna we could buy, on as high a tower as I'm willing to climb). I wonder if anyone makes really good parabolic UHF antennas?
Cheers
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#289766 - 19/11/2006 21:01
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5683
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
the Myth is incredibly blotchy and blinking, whereas the VCR image just looks somewhat fuzzy but good.
Well, that'll be MPEG encoding artefacts for you. I have the same problem with the weaker channels here and my PVR-350 card.
Well, I say "have". I mean "had", because the caps on the card exploded, and I can't be bothered to either replace or fix it.
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-- roger
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#289767 - 19/11/2006 21:05
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Yeah, definitely the MPEG encoding is doing the blotching. I wonder if there's a way to tell Myth to grab raw video from the card, rather than the pre-processed MPEG stream? I suppose I could get a dumber card. Mmm.. also wondering if Myth could then be told to save the full high bit rate capture, rather than compressing it.. ? Quote:
Well, I say "have". I mean "had", because the caps on the card exploded, and I can't be bothered to either replace or fix it.
Ahh.. just the caps gone, you figure? Mmm.. I'd be interested in that card should you ever decide to bin it.
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#289768 - 25/11/2006 01:46
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Okay people. Is it just MythTV, or perhaps the Hauppauge PVR-500 card, or do analog TV MPEG encoders all suck when it comes to picture quality?
Okay, last night I got an old-style PVR-250 card off of eBay, and installed it alongside the PVR-500 card. MUCHO better picture quality with the PVR-250!
The PVR-500 sucks lemons on noisy signals. Tonight I just bought a second PVR-250 to install in place of the PVR-500. Anyone want a very nice dual-tuner Hauppauge PVR-500 NTSC card, which sucks lemons on weak signals but is otherwise very good?
Cheers
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#289769 - 05/12/2006 03:54
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Okay, so this evening I took a spare 300GB drive off the stack, and installed XP-Pro, tons of drivers, and then the beta6 demo of SageTV on top of it all.
No program guide listings at all for anywhere in Canada, and the stupid @#$@^% thing forces me to choose a USA OTA location, so it can populate the channel list with zillions of channels that don't exist here. No way to delete a channel, though one can inactivate one (stays in the master list regardless).
The rest of it looks promising, but without usable listings, the whole point of SageTV kinda melts away. I put the Myth drive back in afterwards.
Hey Bruno.. how'd you get program listings for CBC, CTV etc.. ????
And how the heck do I get my PVR-250 34-button remote to function?
Cheers
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#289770 - 05/12/2006 13:07
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Mark, my advice is to try version 5 of SageTV first, just in case. I don't have any experience with version 6 unfortunately. It's entirely possible they simply broke something in the latest build.
Wiith other versions it was a simple setup to get Canadian data. Just type in the Canadian Postal Code where it asks for Zip/Postal code (I can't remember, but it might have been labeled as only Zip which could throw people off).
You can also find info on modifying the local lineup in the forums I believe.
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#289771 - 05/12/2006 13:35
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Mark, my advice is to try version 5 of SageTV first, just in case. I don't have any experience with version 6 unfortunately. It's entirely possible they simply broke something in the latest build.
Wiith other versions it was a simple setup to get Canadian data. Just type in the Canadian Postal Code where it asks for Zip/Postal code (I can't remember, but it might have been labeled as only Zip which could throw people off).
I think I did enter a postal code, but it's time to try it all over again. I've got a second PVR-250 card here now, with a second remote etc.., so I'm going to connect that up and try a reinstall.
Once version 6 had been installed, I was unable to go back to version 5 -- just craps out with a java exception on startup. I guess their "uninstaller" doesn't really uninstall everything.
Cheers
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#289772 - 05/12/2006 16:13
Re: New to CableTV, considering Tivo; advice please?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Ahh.. got it. On the first screen I had to select Antenna (check), but for the program guide one has to first select Cable instead of Antenna/OTA/whatever, and this then brings up another menu of cable companies, with "Antenna" at the top. Logical.  I guess that was one of those "violates good UI design principles" things that Bruno once referred to in another thread! The only OTA channel missing from the program guide seems to be OMNI.2, which is a fairly newish (last year) OTA channel here in the Ottawa area. Maybe it'll show up there someday. The Hauppauge remote also now works for me, after reinstalling the Hauppauge stuff, and then SageTV v6beta, and then rebooting (lots of reboots with the MS stuff..). Next up: see if the power-management (auto suspend/resume) is any better than with Linux, and see if SageTV can be taught to find/use my digital tuner (I need to pull down a plugin or something for the hdhomerun). If all that works, then it's time to see if MS will permit me to "activate" my legit XP-Pro license on that particular box.. Or maybe grab another 300MB disk from the stack, and do the whole shebang again with SageTV for Linux -- except they don't have a free trial version for that, so it's a bit of a crapshoot going that route. -ml
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#289773 - 05/12/2006 21:30
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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How much do you want for the PVR-500 card ?
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Matt
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#289774 - 06/12/2006 03:42
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
How much do you want for the PVR-500 card ?
Just make me an offer that I cannot refuse, and it's yours!
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#289775 - 06/12/2006 12:47
Re: PC TV Tuner: just not good enough
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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How about 75 USD ?
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Matt
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#289776 - 06/12/2006 21:18
SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Another lack-of progress report. Quote:
The only OTA channel missing from the program guide seems to be OMNI.2
Which is quite odd, since it *is* in the DataDirect listings from zap2it, where one can also find the HD channel listings as well.
SageTV is totally clueless about OTA HD in Canada -- no listings, and no way to even add the channels to the local Antenna line-up. Ugh.. frustratingly close to being a good product, and then they fsck up on the very thing that's triggered me to "go PVR" in the first place!!
Heck, even my HD tuner, the hdhomerun gizmo, "almost works" in SageTV. It does tune channels after some coercing, but the volume is heavily attenuated, and the on-screen images have a pronounced green tint compared with the analog channels. No obvious way to fix any of that, either.
SageTV is also missing built-in commercial-skip, which is 30% of the value of a PVR. Duh. It does seem to be available as a Windows-only add-in, but I tried that out and it didn't seem to do anything other than chew up a lot of CPU/disk bandwidth for no noticeable result.
SageTV half-works with power management -- it turns on the machine to do a scheduled recording (good), but doesn't turn it off again afterwards (duh). And the GUI just seems to lock up entirely after such an event.
* * *
So back to the other half-baked solution, MythTV. At least the OTA listings work for both analog and digital here in Canada, and the hdhomerun HD tuner works fine. Apparently commercial skipping is semi-integrated with Myth, but again doesn't do anything out of the box. Gotta dig into that eventually.
No support I can see for auto-power on/off in Myth, but Sage didn't really have it either, so nothing lost. Now that I'm back on Linux, I can probably script something up that will do the job ... eventually.
Cheers
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#289777 - 07/12/2006 07:33
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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old hand
Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 893
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
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Quote:
Apparently commercial skipping is semi-integrated with Myth, but again doesn't do anything out of the box.
For me, commercial skipping did 'work' out of the box, but it tends to give a lot of false positives on commercials. Maybe it needs some sort of tweaking.
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#289778 - 07/12/2006 11:49
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
Another lack-of progress report...<snip>
This is why I have a TiVo
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~ John
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#289779 - 07/12/2006 12:50
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Another lack-of progress report...<snip>
This is why I have a TiVo
Not useful to people outside of the USA (or UK?), though. We kinda want a working program guide for the area, and no ongoing subscription fees.
Cheers
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#289780 - 07/12/2006 12:55
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Another lack-of progress report...<snip>
This is why I have a TiVo
Not useful to people outside of the USA (or UK?), though. We kinda want a working program guide for the area, and no ongoing subscription fees.
Oh, and last time I checked, TIVOs also did not do (1) auto-commerical skip, or (2) a mix of NTSC and ATSC. Apart from those two things, SageTV was pretty darned good, with many capabilities built-in (eg. Google Video browsing./playing) that just don't exist in TIVO.
I really wish Sage worked better with my HD setup, because I like SageTV and want to use it. But..
Cheers
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#289781 - 07/12/2006 13:06
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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TiVo does officially support Canada now, listings and all. But they don't sell any hardware here. And you're stuck paying up to $20 per month just for the listings data and their arbitrary decisions on what you can or can't do with what you record.
I don't mind a lack of automated commercial skip in SageTV. That's a post-processed procedure on any box so it can definitely be supplied with a plugin. I normally just use its built in manual skip features. Their jump time is configurable but I use the defaults: 10 sec and 2:30. This lets me jump commercial breaks very easily when watching recorded content.
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#289782 - 07/12/2006 13:36
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3584
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Sorry Mark. That wasn't intended to be snarky.
What I should have said was that I realize you can do a lot of cooler stuff with other platforms, but I like my TiVo 'cause it just works all the time with no messing.
And with my lifetime membership, I don't pay for guide data either. Best of both worlds for me. Obviously YMMV.
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~ John
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#289783 - 07/12/2006 14:57
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
SageTV half-works with power management -- it turns on the machine to do a scheduled recording (good), but doesn't turn it off again afterwards (duh). And the GUI just seems to lock up entirely after such an event.
Ahh.. apparently this is a "feature" of the version 6 pre-release of SageTV --> the inability to go back into standby. The new RC1 (last night) can apparently be tweaked (two low-level config flags need to be set) to properly standby. Not tested yet.
Now if they could just get my HD tuners working correctly..
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#289784 - 07/12/2006 15:00
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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If I were a true MS fan, and lived in the USA or didn't care about HD tv, then SageTV would be an awesome product too. Very easy to install, very little configuration of anything necessary, and it *just works* with a good interface and some great extras. At this point I would highly recommend it to anyone for analog TV use.
But their (O.T.A.) HD support outside of the USA is currently the biggest stumbling block.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (07/12/2006 15:12)
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#289785 - 10/12/2006 20:13
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: sein]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Apparently commercial skipping is semi-integrated with Myth, but again doesn't do anything out of the box.
For me, commercial skipping did 'work' out of the box, but it tends to give a lot of false positives on commercials. Maybe it needs some sort of tweaking.
Ah. And right you are! It does process recorded shows automatically for commercial-skipping here, too. But not (slightly paused) "live TV" as SageTV claims to do. But certainly pretty good enough, I think.
So far I've seen one false positive (skipped 10 minutes of show -- there oughta be a limit on skipping somewhere, but the one in the Myth menus is ignored for "auto" skipping).
Cheers
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#289786 - 19/12/2006 17:41
Re: SageTV vs. MythTV: do two halves make a whole?
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
No support I can see for auto-power on/off in Myth, but Sage didn't really have it either, so nothing lost.
I eventually did find this in the mythtv-setup menus for the backend. There's a whole GUI screen hiding in there under General to configure auto power on/off according to the recording/activity schedule.
I did have to write a couple of short shell scripts to mate with it, but it does appear to be doing unattended power on/off as needed now.
I also added a "minder" script to restart the backend whenever it dies -- so far it only dies when I muck about with the settings menu on the frontend software.
Last thing to still get working: the Hauppauge remote control. This was supposed to be the easiest, but so far..
Does anyone out there know how to burn a show to DVD *without* the commercials included? It automatically tags/skips them for regular playback inside myth, but I want to archive stuff to DVD without advertisements.
Cheers
-ml
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