#301061 - 30/07/2007 13:24
Homeowners' Association
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Two weeks as a homeowner, and I've had my first run-in with a homeowners' association.
This past week we installed brand new real-wood blinds on all our windows. The problem? I had a brain fart and forgot about the fact that the blinds are visible from the outside, so I should probably check what color is appropriate. The result? We are the only dwelling visible from the courtyard in the center of our complex that doesn't have white blinds. D'oh! So now we've been ordered to take them down by this Friday.
This is certainly my fault, I'm not disputing that. I should have checked before-hand. I'm posting this because I thought some of you might have an idea as to what we could do to fix this. See, the blinds place will only do a 50% refund because they're custom blinds, and we really like how the blinds look (from the inside).
Any suggestions?
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Matt
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#301062 - 30/07/2007 13:45
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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In college we just taped newspaper on the windows.  A little more seriously, though... maybe tape off the in-side and spray paint the out-side?
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10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#301063 - 30/07/2007 14:03
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
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I've heard of this kind of thing but was never really sure what it was.
Let me get this straight: you own (not rent) your own home. You put up curtains/blinds. The neighbours don't like the look of them and tell you to take them down?
It sounds very... erm, surreal.
What am I missing?
<tongue-in-cheek>
What happens if you (shock, horror) don't take them down? Do they force their way in and hang curtains?
I'm just visualising a black and white circa-1850 angry mob scene from a Frankenstein movie; burning brands, pitchforks, hammers and a set of white blinds...
Or is it more psychological? Whispers and glances? More Poe than Shelley?
</tongue-in-cheek>
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LittleBlueThing
Running twin 30's
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#301065 - 30/07/2007 14:48
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: LittleBlueThing]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Often you have a clause in your mortgage where the homeowners' association can foreclose on your home if you fail to abide by their rules or pay your dues.
This is becoming a more and more common thing in the US, and it's repugnant.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301066 - 30/07/2007 14:56
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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addict
Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 599
Loc: Florida
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Does the Homeowners' Association require you to have miniblinds? If not then maybe you can install rollup blinds between your blinds and the window.
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Chad
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#301068 - 30/07/2007 15:41
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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addict
Registered: 02/08/2004
Posts: 434
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Often you have a clause in your mortgage where the homeowners' association can foreclose on your home if you fail to abide by their rules or pay your dues.
This is becoming a more and more common thing in the US, and it's repugnant.
Yep, bad, bad stuff. I made sure that I found a neighborhood that had no HOA. I lived in a (rented) condo, and that was a nightmare. The condo commanders as they are known around here are impossible to deal with for the most part.
I would just paint the window side of the blinds white, if you can. Good luck with your battles! On a related note, the HOA cannot prevent you from putting up a OTA television antenna, if you are planning on that.
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#301069 - 30/07/2007 15:41
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Often you have a clause in your mortgage where the homeowners' association can foreclose on your home if you fail to abide by their rules or pay your dues.
This is becoming a more and more common thing in the US, and it's repugnant.
True, and I think it's horrible that they have that much power, but the intention is usually reasonable to me. After I got the notice, I went out into the courtyard and noticed how odd our windows looked. I then envisioned different-colored blinds on every window, purple, blue, yellow, orange... I think these kinds of guidelines can be good, provided they don't get too carried away and provided the reaction isn't too severe.
I've thought of a few options (paint, contact paper, etc). Shades wouldn't fit between the blinds and the window (they're thick blinds). In the end, I think we're going to have to return them and get new ones. If that happens, at least we can get fake wood blinds (less noticeable if they're white) and we might not be too bad off.
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Matt
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#301070 - 30/07/2007 15:44
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: petteri]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
Often you have a clause in your mortgage where the homeowners' association can foreclose on your home if you fail to abide by their rules or pay your dues.
This is becoming a more and more common thing in the US, and it's repugnant.
Yep, bad, bad stuff. I made sure that I found a neighborhood that had no HOA. I lived in a (rented) condo, and that was a nightmare. The condo commanders as they are known around here are impossible to deal with for the most part.
I would just paint the window side of the blinds white, if you can. Good luck with your battles! On a related note, the HOA cannot prevent you from putting up a OTA television antenna, if you are planning on that.
Really? I didn't know about the antenna. I've heard it's illegal for them to prevent you from installing a satellite dish, but they apparently forced our renters (before we lived in the unit) to take theirs down.
It's not a problem, though. I have FiosTV and I absolutely love it.
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Matt
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#301071 - 30/07/2007 15:45
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: petteri]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1529
Loc: Arizona
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When I bought my house a few years ago, the two things I told the agent were 1) no HOA and 2) if possible, a pool. He said no HOAs were becoming a more popular request, and it isn't hard to see why. Then again, you might end up with somebody like my neighbor who had two mini-palms in his yard - only color other than dirt. He dug them up this weekend. I'm hoping he does something nice with it, time will tell. Anyway, I agree. Paint the visible parts to the outside white and see if that is acceptable. If it is, you saved yourself losing the 50% refund price. If it isn't you just lost the other 50% I guess  Maybe do one and then ask the HOA if it is acceptable before doing the others?
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#301072 - 30/07/2007 15:48
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
I then envisioned different-colored blinds on every window, purple, blue, yellow, orange.
Oh my God!!!! The horror!
The next thing you know, people will want to think for themselves!
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Bitt Faulk
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#301073 - 30/07/2007 15:49
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Tim]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Then again, you might end up with somebody like my neighbor who had two mini-palms in his yard - only color other than dirt.
I would far rather see that than a row of twisty little houses, all alike.
Or should I have gone with the Edward Scissorhands reference?
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Bitt Faulk
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#301074 - 30/07/2007 16:06
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
Then again, you might end up with somebody like my neighbor who had two mini-palms in his yard - only color other than dirt.
I would far rather see that than a row of twisty little houses, all alike.
Or should I have gone with the Edward Scissorhands reference?
You could also reference Weeds in some way. Or just "Little Boxes."
I understand your point of view as well, but I suppose I'm an orderly person at heart, and I'd prefer to have a standard to keep than complete disarray.
On my parents' street, a few years ago, a man and his old, Russian mother moved in across the street. Apparently his mother insisted on having Russian TV so they installed what had to be a 20' satellite dish. It looked awful in a country-style neighborhood (where the homes don't all look like white boxes, but there's still a standard).
But at the basic level, I really should have read up on the HOA guidelines before installing the blinds. It's my fault.
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Matt
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#301075 - 30/07/2007 16:12
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Well, I have a HOA, although I'm in a townhome (small terrace, for you Brits), where it sorta makes sense. Regardless, I pay a lot of money in order for them to do a lousy job keeping up our lawn and prevent me from personalizing my house. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the colors of the houses weren't all based on various shades of baby shit.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301076 - 30/07/2007 16:58
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Often you have a clause in your mortgage where the homeowners' association can foreclose on your home if you fail to abide by their rules or pay your dues.
This is becoming a more and more common thing in the US, and it's repugnant.
I'm with you on this one, and I like your choice of the word "repugnant". Not only are you not allowed to do whatever you want, in/to a home you own, you get to pay for the "privilege" of artificially restricting your freedom. I can agree that there's a need for rules and regulations to keep society running smoothly with some semblance of order, but I sure don't see how the colour of one's window blinds needs to be part of that social contract. Is this the same country which prides itself on freedom?
I really don't understand how those things got started, let alone why anyone would ever agree to be bound by one. If I want to paint my house an emerald green with hot-pink trim, then I'll be damned if anyone other than my family will have a say in the matter.
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#301077 - 30/07/2007 17:06
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: canuckInOR]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
If I want to paint my house an emerald green with hot-pink trim, then I'll be damned if anyone other than my family will have a say in the matter.
And I would hope you'd tell me before you did, so I could sell my home before my property values went down.
Also, you said that you were restricted to what you could do inside a home? You must have a pretty damn strict HOA. I didn't think CC&R's applied to the interior. We can do and have done plenty to our place already.
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Matt
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#301078 - 30/07/2007 17:12
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Well, I have a HOA, although I'm in a townhome (small terrace, for you Brits), where it sorta makes sense. Regardless, I pay a lot of money in order for them to do a lousy job keeping up our lawn and prevent me from personalizing my house. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the colors of the houses weren't all based on various shades of baby shit.
That does sound pretty crappy. I will say that our HOA does an impeccable job at keeping up the grounds. Everything is perfectly clean, and the landscaping is in top shape. The numerous common areas are also kept extremely well, including the 24-hour gym, the swimming pool, half-basketball court, game room (pool, poker, foosball), cinema room, golf simulator, business center, and common room.
I don't have many complaints about the community, it's just that we hit this little snag.
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Matt
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#301079 - 30/07/2007 17:19
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Also, you said that you were restricted to what you could do inside a home? You must have a pretty damn strict HOA.
If your blinds are not inside your home, you're doing something wrong.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301080 - 30/07/2007 17:21
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, you said that you were restricted to what you could do inside a home? You must have a pretty damn strict HOA.
If your blinds are not inside your home, you're doing something wrong.
Haha, touché, sir.
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Matt
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#301081 - 30/07/2007 17:39
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
I went out into the courtyard and noticed how odd our windows looked. I then envisioned different-colored blinds on every window, purple, blue, yellow, orange...
I think you should go smack your homeowners' association upside the head with a copy of Christopher Alexander's "The Timeless Way Of Building", which explains at some length that architecture where everything is slightly different, is more human and more liveable-in than one where everything is regular and self-similar.
Or just watch (or google) the BBC children's programme "Balamory". The exteriors are not a set. The village of Tobermory is really like that.
Peter
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#301082 - 30/07/2007 18:05
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: canuckInOR]
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veteran
Registered: 25/04/2000
Posts: 1529
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Not only are you not allowed to do whatever you want, in/to a home you own, you get to pay for the "privilege" of artificially restricting your freedom.
In all honesty, I still have a problem with being able to do whever I want to the inside of my house. I grew up in the military, and never lived in a house that wasn't owned by the government until coming back from college the summer after my sophmore year. My roommate said it would be awesome to expand one of the doorways inside the house and add an arch to it... I was shocked. I didn't realize you could do something like that
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#301083 - 30/07/2007 18:27
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Tim]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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We have a HOA in a neighborhood close to me. The prices start at $500,000 for the bare lot. They tell you how much landscaping you need, what kind it has to be, what type of grass you have to use, etc... They get so granular as to tell you what kind of DOG you can keep. (No Pits, Shepherds, Akita's, etc). I could never understand how they were granted that kind of power. Then again, these people are PAYING for the right to impose rules they find acceptable on those around them. Don't like the rules, don't live there, there are plenty of houses around. (especially in post-Katrina N.O.)
By the time I'm able to afford a $1M+ house, I'll likely be old enough to be interested in those kinds of rules. That being said, I am really glad I don't live in a neighborhood where it's OK to put tinfoil on the windows. Not that there's a rule prohibiting it, it's just a common sense thing. My neighbor does, however, have 2-4 boats at any give time, which can be annoying.
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#301084 - 30/07/2007 21:51
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: lectric]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
By the time I'm able to afford a $1M+ house, I'll likely be old enough to be interested in those kinds of rules.
By the time I'm able to afford a $1M+ house, I'll hopefully be able to invest it in a plot of land large enough that the nearest neighbours are a couple miles down the road.
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#301085 - 30/07/2007 22:03
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: lectric]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
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Quote:
We have a HOA in a neighborhood close to me. The prices start at $500,000 for the bare lot.
Is this the Gabriel subdivision in Kenner?
Stu
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If you want it to break, buy Sony!
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#301086 - 30/07/2007 22:37
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Quote:
If I want to paint my house an emerald green with hot-pink trim, then I'll be damned if anyone other than my family will have a say in the matter.
And I would hope you'd tell me before you did, so I could sell my home before my property values went down.
You can find out I'm painting my house when the ladder is leaning up against the wall. Truthfully, I'm not really going to paint my house in garish colours like that -- I have a more refined colour sense than that -- it's the principle of the thing. While I will be a friendly, and considerate neighbour, willing to watch your pets while you're away on vacation, and not hold loud parties keeping you up all night, that consideration stops far short of giving a flying fig what you think of my landscaping, exterior decorating, or the rest of the curb appeal of my house. I'm under no obligation to help you maintain your property value, and don't want you constrained by some false sense of duty to my property value, either. I'm buying my home as a place to live first, and as an investment second -- not the other way around. I'll keep up the exterior of my house for no other reason other than my own satisfaction in having a nice place to live.
Quote:
Also, you said that you were restricted to what you could do inside a home? You must have a pretty damn strict HOA.
Excluding having a landlord (and hence not actually owning my current place), I've never had an HOA, and never will.
Quote:
I didn't think CC&R's applied to the interior. We can do and have done plenty to our place already.
And yet you're capitulating to the demands of the HOA on your interior decorating choices.
Me? If you don't like my blinds? I'll tell you to either stop trying to look in my windows, or offer to buy me something to replace them.
Cheers,
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#301087 - 30/07/2007 23:25
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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I understand your point of view as well, but I suppose I'm an orderly person at heart, and I'd prefer to have a standard to keep than complete disarray.
I at first misread this as "elderly person at heart".
I find these HOAs that govern free-standing homes to be pretty creepy -- turning developments into the set for the Truman Show. Actually, worse than that. Luckily, I don't have to worry about purchasing one of those oppressive million-dollar mansions.
Now, I do own a condo and, condos being a different kettle of fish (more common property) I would be surprised to find a condo without an HOA or HOA-like Coop board. For condo dwellers, I think of the HOA as a fact of life. I did not find the fact that my condo had a "blinds rule" (and some other rules) like yours too oppressive -- not enough to put me off buying the unit. What I do firmly believe having lived here for a while is that we don't have much choice but to fairly enforce whatever rules are on the HOA's books. The rules can always be changed, but when considering a condo, it probably pays to read the rules thoroughly and assume that they might never change.
I applaud your willingness to see this from all sides. I find the fact that the blind company will actually give you 50% back to be pretty good. In your shoes I would go back and take them up on it. Put this behind you. Ask 'em how much it would cost for HOA-OK replacements. Who knows. Maybe you'll get a break.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#301088 - 31/07/2007 13:20
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: Dignan]
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new poster
Registered: 21/11/2001
Posts: 40
Loc: Maine, USA
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Yes, it was an X-Files reference. Whenever I hear any stories about restrictive Homeowners Association rules I always think of this episode. One of those woodsman whirlygigs gets the homeowners killed. -Jeff
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#301089 - 02/08/2007 01:03
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: maczrool]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
Gabriel
Bingo. Oh, and it looks like they've started dropping prices a bit. Or perhaps only the lots I saw we .5 Mil, as the website is showing low end lots starting at a mere $175k and high end at $550k.
Edited by lectric (02/08/2007 01:07)
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#301090 - 03/08/2007 20:10
Re: Homeowners' Association
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
The next thing you know, people will want to think for themselves!
And without HOA and COA, you get jerks like me who often neglect to mow my lawn, pull/spray weeds only once a year, and still haven't replaced my ratty front door, though a new one is sitting there waiting. Sure, all these neglegances come with good reason, but a HOA would hang me.
Quote:
tell you what kind of DOG you can keep.
That HOA must be trying to win some WASP picket fence award.
Good X-Files references. One of the only episodes I've ever seen.
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