#301867 - 05/09/2007 16:53
The new iPods
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Admittedly, I've never been the biggest iPod fan, but is anyone else underwhelmed by the "new" product announcements today? Lets look at what happened: - iPod Shuffle: new colors
- iPod Nano: IMO, this was the biggest announcement, although the old insistence that nobody wants to watch video on a two inch screen is echoing in my ears.
- iPod: now the iPod Classic, and all metal. Seems this will probably be a weak seller now that there's the...
- iPod Touch: okay, call me cynical, but to me the only interesting thing about this product is that it tells us the cell phone part of the iPhone costs $200.
Don't get me wrong, despite my continuing dislike of the closed Apple system, iTunes, and lack of variety of format playback, I was absolutely prepared to get that iPod Touch. Then I saw that it was flash-based, and that was the end of that. Why bother at that point? I really don't understand the philosophy of portable video devices that have large screens and not enough room for a decent amount of video. Example: for the holiday weekend, I left my laptop behind and loaded up my Archos with the entire third season of BSG (which I'll post about in a couple days). I watched almost all of it in 20 hours of driving, in addition to a couple movies and a few vidcasts. I also had most of my music collection on there. And heck, we're just talking about my 30GB player, which is tiny these days. Hopefully the second generation Touch will have a hard disk-based option. So what is everyone else's thoughts?
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Matt
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#301868 - 05/09/2007 17:33
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
iPod Touch: okay, call me cynical, but to me the only interesting thing about this product is that it tells us the cell phone part of the iPhone costs $200.
I disagree. This would be an excellent product. Except for the fact that its maximum capacity is 16GB.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301869 - 05/09/2007 17:59
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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journeyman
Registered: 02/04/2002
Posts: 56
Loc: Las Vegas
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Storage size has always been a deal-breaker for me. With 160GB now, the iPod finally merits consideration.
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#301870 - 05/09/2007 18:21
Re: The new iPods
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
iPod Touch: okay, call me cynical, but to me the only interesting thing about this product is that it tells us the cell phone part of the iPhone costs $200.
I disagree. This would be an excellent product. Except for the fact that its maximum capacity is 16GB.
Oops, I must have read the Engadget live blog too quickly (I can only take so much "Jobs-speak"). My apologies. 16GB is approaching respectability, but I still don't consider it much more than a commuting-via-mass-transit device. Vacationing with it would get very limiting very quickly.
I also think that 160GB is excellent, but I don't want to watch video on that size a screen.
Oh, and I also liked Steve's claim that the Touch was the "First time EVER on a music player to have a browser built in." Um...no.
Quote:
Storage size has always been a deal-breaker for me.
My deal breakers, in order of importance:
- at least 4" screen (possibly a good-quality 3.5")
- at least 30GB
- plays back wide variety of formats
I wouldn't have thought that these would be hard to meet. I guess I'm in the minority. Trust me, I think the Archos products are less than perfect, and I'm not claiming that they're "better" than the iPod. I do, however, think that they're more suited for video playback, and have been for three and a half years.
Edited by Dignan (05/09/2007 18:31)
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#301871 - 05/09/2007 18:30
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4180
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
I watched almost all of it in 20 hours of driving, in addition to a couple movies and a few vidcasts.
Hang on, what?
Peter
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#301872 - 05/09/2007 18:32
Re: The new iPods
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
I watched almost all of it in 20 hours of driving, in addition to a couple movies and a few vidcasts.
Hang on, what?
Sheesh, I wasn't driving.
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Matt
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#301873 - 05/09/2007 18:45
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Well, I've been waiting for the Touch for quite some time, in fact, since my 5th Gen got pinched. 16GB is a bit of a pain, however if it's Wifi enabled then syncing stuff could possibly be trivial.
The thing that would hold me back from buying an iPhone is that it won't be available on Orange. Having had work-supplied phones on Vodaphone and O2 in the past makes me appreciate Orange all that more. The Touch seems to have everything I want from the iPhone just without the phone bit. I'm sure I can find something else to do that.
Think I might find it difficult to resist the urge on the UK release day.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301874 - 05/09/2007 18:52
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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enthusiast
Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
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Quote:
Don't get me wrong, despite my continuing dislike of the closed Apple system, iTunes, and lack of variety of format playback, I was absolutely prepared to get that iPod Touch. Then I saw that it was flash-based, and that was the end of that.
My thoughts exactly... an iPhone with 160GB (and FM!) would be an instant sale for me. Apple Lock-In aside, I am admittedly envious of the smooth iPhone interface. With enough storage and an FM tuner I could be bribed into the iPod camp. But an iPhone without the Phone? 16GB? Wifi, but no radio on an audio device? WTF?
I'm sure this lineup is making a lot of people very happy... I guess I am just not part of Apple's target demographic. 
Is my money not good enough for you, Steve?
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Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."
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#301875 - 05/09/2007 18:56
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Okay, for some reason I was thinking that Archos thing you're always going on about was huge. But it's only slightly bigger than the Touch, has a much higher resolution screen, and comes with a HD up to 160GB. Not bad at all.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301876 - 05/09/2007 19:16
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The iPod touch looks cool, and with the WiFi allowing you to buy songs, it starts to add connectivity to music players in a possibly useful way. The WiFi in the Zune was just horribly limited, and no connectivity to the Zune marketplace was strange. On the iPod (and iPhone) side, I'd still like to see it extended to syncing with my computer (bonus points for over the internet, or auto syncing when I get home), and also enabled to sync podcasts directly to the device. That way, I could go on vacation, not haul around the laptop, and still enjoy the new release of a podcast while traveling. I would like to see an iPod touch with a hard drive. That seemed to be the logical step over keeping the iPod classic around, but I suppose until the price of the tech in the iPhone and Touch comes down, it's somewhat reasonable. The iPod line though seems a bit crowded now. The iPod Nano does video and is flash based. The iPod touch does video with a bigger screen but still uses flash. Quote:
call me cynical, but to me the only interesting thing about this product is that it tells us the cell phone part of the iPhone costs $200.
Actually, only $100. The iPhone dropped 33%, or $200 in price today, a mere 68 days after release. So existing owners have been paying nearly $3 a day for the privilege of being one of the first owners. For Apple, or really any company out there, such a rapid price drop is unheard of, and speaks highly of price gouging your willing early adopters. Up until today, I was very happy with my iPhone, and my overall experiences with Apple. This now has me shying away from ever buying a new Apple product again, for fear that it will drop in price so rapidly, and my willingness to buy something new was simply being exploited to pad the books at Apple.
Quote:
Oh, and I also liked Steve's claim that the Touch was the "First time EVER on a music player to have a browser built in." Um...no.
Not defending the statement, instead I'm curious what portable music player did have a web browser before the iPod touch. Admittedly it is a narrow definition, since there have been cell phones for ages that can play music and have a web browser along with some PDAs, but I can't recall a device that touted music playback as the main feature and had a browser in it.
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#301877 - 05/09/2007 19:38
Re: The new iPods
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Not defending the statement, instead I'm curious what portable music player did have a web browser before the iPod touch.
The first that I'm aware of was the Archos PMA400. It had a touchscreen, too. It's possible that there were others, but none that I know of. That product was released sometime in 2005.
My Archos 604 has Wifi as well, and has Opera on it (and I've had it for a while now). Admittedly, browsing the internet is a horrible, horrible experience, but it's definitely possible. I mainly bought the 604 Wifi over the regular 604 because of the touchscreen, which makes media playback a whole different experience.
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Matt
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#301878 - 05/09/2007 19:40
Re: The new iPods
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Okay, for some reason I was thinking that Archos thing you're always going on about was huge. But it's only slightly bigger than the Touch, has a much higher resolution screen, and comes with a HD up to 160GB. Not bad at all.
Yeah, the new players are sweet. The only thing I don't like about them is the aspect ratio, which is something like 16:10. But yeah, the resolution is really attractive. The previous generation had a 160GB model, but it used a 2.5" drive, so it was horribly bulky.
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Matt
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#301879 - 05/09/2007 19:52
Re: The new iPods
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
Think I might find it difficult to resist the urge on the UK release day.
Well I for one won't be buying one, it doesn't do email! It doesn't have bluetooth! What's the point in carrying this in my pocket when I STILL need my PDA and mobile phone. I think the iPhone will be worth the wait!
Why only put 16Gb in? When the classic still has a HD in it I think Apple are off the mark with this one, why would I want a video player with only 16Gb ??? I could live with it if I only needed one device in my pocket.
Cheers
Cris.
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#301880 - 05/09/2007 19:55
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
Why only put 16Gb in? When the classic still has a HD in it I think Apple are off the mark with this one, why would I want a video player with only 16Gb ??? I could live with it if I only needed one device in my pocket.
I'm guessing that powering the larger screen, with a touch screen and a hard disk and possible wifi would make the battery life too low to be marketable ?
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#301881 - 05/09/2007 19:59
Re: The new iPods
[Re: andy]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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They sold plenty when the battery life was much much lower.
I would prefer the extra space and options to connect to the internet via my mobile phone.
Cheers
Cris.
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#301882 - 05/09/2007 20:04
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
The only thing I don't like about them is the aspect ratio, which is something like 16:10.
Two possibilities I see here. One, that's the size that was cheap at their vendor. Two, it's a middle ground between 16:9 and 16:12 (that is, 4:3). You never get full screen, but you get bigger 4:3 than you'd get on a 16:9 display and bigger 16:9 than you'd get on a 4:3 display. Plus maybe they use that additional space for controls.
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Bitt Faulk
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#301883 - 05/09/2007 20:06
Re: The new iPods
[Re: bootsy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Wifi, but no radio on an audio device? WTF?
It looks like the AM/FM radio is only compatible with the iPod Classic and iPod Nano. Odd that it doesn't work with the iPhone or iPod Touch. But there is a radio for iPods for those that want it. Personally, I'm happy without a radio in my portable player, haven't listened to radio on a frequent basis since I bought my first empeg in 1999.
iPod Radio Link
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#301884 - 05/09/2007 21:36
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3996
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
Well I for one won't be buying one, it doesn't do email! It doesn't have bluetooth! What's the point in carrying this in my pocket when I STILL need my PDA and mobile phone. I think the iPhone will be worth the wait!
The iPhone is a likely to be non-starter for me. I don't want to have to move to an inferior carrier and I can't find anything to say it'll be definitely 3G.
I can't upgrade until May anyway.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#301885 - 05/09/2007 22:32
Re: The new iPods
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote:
The WiFi in the Zune was just horribly limited, and no connectivity to the Zune marketplace was strange.
The WiFi in the Zune is useless. It really has the feel of a last minute feature that got bolted on without any integration with anything else.
I actually bought an iPod Video recently. I knew it was highly likely that they were releasing new models and was going to give my 1 month old iPod to a friend or family member. Now that its actually out, I'm not too sure. I mean the touchscreen aspect is neat but at the end of the day, it'll live mostly in my pocket with shuffle permanently on. The other problem is that it only has 16GB of storage.
I'd buy a iPod Touch + HD...
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#301886 - 06/09/2007 00:59
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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So is the series 5 smaller than the series 4 ? I saw a series 4 at walmart and it was pretty small. Not sure if it was pocketable or not.
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Matt
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#301887 - 06/09/2007 01:18
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
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Just as underwhelming as the last iPod debut. They're still milking the same old same old. The new touch model is a yawner because it brings nothing to the table we haven't seen in the iPhone. Apple is also (still) advertising not only HD-based players but also flash-based with 1-billion byte GB. So that 16GB of flash is actually 14.9GB. Whhy aren't we seeing class-action lawsuits against PC makers and HD companies to get this advertising deception stopped?
The UI on the nano and classic are still pretty much the same old shite with the back-asswords navigation using the wheel and misplaced buttons they've been using for years.
Hugo, get me a job at Apple and I'll fix this for you guys.
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#301888 - 06/09/2007 03:18
Re: The new iPods
[Re: hybrid8]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Apple is also (still) advertising not only HD-based players but also flash-based with 1-billion byte GB. So that 16GB of flash is actually 14.9GB. Whhy aren't we seeing class-action lawsuits against PC makers and HD companies to get this advertising deception stopped?
You missed the lawsuits apparently. I think the end result was simply the "1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less." disclaimer stamped on everything now. Similar to the old monitor size lawsuits resulting in every CRT going to "15 inches, 14.1 viewable".
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#301889 - 06/09/2007 04:38
Re: The new iPods
[Re: msaeger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
So is the series 5 smaller than the series 4 ? I saw a series 4 at walmart and it was pretty small. Not sure if it was pocketable or not.
Basically, yes. Gen 4 was using two-platter 1.8" drives (as well as 2.5" drive models). Gen 5 only uses 1.8" drives, and only the 160GB model is a two-platter drive. So if you see the 604 in the stores, the Gen 5 players are all slimmer than that, except the 160GB model, which is only two-three millimeters thicker.
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Matt
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#301890 - 06/09/2007 08:02
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cris]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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I love the concept of the iPod Touch. I live in the Middle East and it will be a while before the iPhone is an valid option (even though they do have them at the local Apple store). What I was waiting for was an iPhone...without the phone, which is exactly what the Touch is.
The only killer is the 16GB size limit. My music collection exceeds that by several times so how do Apple expect me to fit any decent amount of video media on board?
I guess I'll be waiting for the next-gen, larger capacity players.
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#301891 - 06/09/2007 08:47
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cybjorg]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 1904
Loc: Leeds, UK
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Quote:
What I was waiting for was an iPhone...without the phone, which is exactly what the Touch is.
I disagree, I think it falls short of an iPhone without the phone. Whith out an e-mail app or anything other than WiFi it's a pretty useless mobile internet device.
What I want is an iPhone with the phone module removed, and the ability to connect to my own mobile so I can choose my network etc... but keep all the functions. Now that would be cool!
Cheers
Cris.
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#301892 - 06/09/2007 08:56
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Dignan]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
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I bought my first Archos product last September and I love my 604. Love it. Not too big at all, built solidly, nice clear crisp screen with a superb viewing angle. 30gb suits me fine and it plays all the files I've thrown at it. Its great to just record stuff off of my PVR card and transfer it across. I get about 5 hours video playback using earphones and lowest backlighting.
My only gripe is a lack of backlit buttons and the UI is a tad confusing but you get used to it pretty quickly.
The new ones look even better - higher res, slimmer and improved battery life. They may even have backlit buttons now.
Funny how it seems to get overlooked by many.
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#301893 - 06/09/2007 09:40
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cris]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
Quote:
What I was waiting for was an iPhone...without the phone, which is exactly what the Touch is.
I disagree, I think it falls short of an iPhone without the phone. Whith out an e-mail app or anything other than WiFi it's a pretty useless mobile internet device.
I guess I should clarify: I'm not looking for any phone features whatsoever. All I want is a "large", touch screen, audio/video iPod. WiFi and internet connectivity would be a plus, of course. An e-mail app would be nice, as well. The Touch looks like it would scratch my itch except for the extremely low capacity.
Others, like yourself, have different needs/wants. I guess Apple can't please everyone.
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#301894 - 06/09/2007 12:44
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cybjorg]
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addict
Registered: 23/12/2002
Posts: 652
Loc: Winston Salem, NC
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Quote:
Apple spokeswoman Natalie Kerris said anyone who purchased an iPhone within the past 14 days and has the receipt can get a full refund under Apple's return policy if they haven't opened the product. If they have opened it, they still can get a refund of the price difference.
Apple's response to recent adopters who feel a bit burned by the most recent price drop.
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#301895 - 06/09/2007 12:53
Re: The new iPods
[Re: CrackersMcCheese]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Cool! Another happy Archos owner! Out of curiosity, I did a size comparison with the Archos players and the iPod Touch and iPhone. I wasn't aware that the iPhone and the Touch are actually different sizes. I had assumed that they'd forgone a hard disk model so that they could just use the cases they were already making for the iPhones. As you can see, the Archos players are clearly larger, but that's to be expected considering they have a 4.3" screen (vs 3.5") and they're hard drive based. Engadget posted a story this morning about the possibility that the Touch has bluetooth, based on product shots. If so, that's certainly a feature advantage for Apple, though I would wonder why they didn't mention it at the press conference.
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Matt
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#301896 - 06/09/2007 14:16
Re: The new iPods
[Re: Cybjorg]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
Apple's response to recent adopters who feel a bit burned by the most recent price drop.
AKA, their standard return policy. Some people are having luck using their credit card companies as a method to get the difference back outside that 14 day window. Job's response in an interview was "thats technology".
I had hoped Apple would do something similar to the Aperture price drop, but it seems they would just prefer to ensure they never have a large fan base at the launch of future products. So many people now, including myself are going to be waiting a lot longer to get the new shiny Apple trinkets.
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