The old Smart Car is due for a change. After many months of test drives and thinking about it, the new Smart Car seems to fit the bill

I think I will own the car for at least 4 years, so I am specing it up a little bit. Leather seats have always sounded like a good idea, but I have never had a car with them.

They are a £500 extra, is it really worth it? It seems a lot when you consider all you get is 2 heated leather seats for that, not even the door panels.

Cheers

Cris.

It seems a lot, considering it came as part of the package in my Renault, but everything on a Smart Car seems expensive. However, I find them more comfortable, particularly on a long run; easier to keep clean and longer lasting. The heated bit is great for starting the day in the winter.

heated seats are also good if you have problems with muscles....

It does seem very expensive, I had assumed that I got door panels and all the other bits in leather too, but that's not the case

It's just one of those things that I can't really add on after.

So what are the bad point of having leather seats ???

Cheers

Cris.

I can't think of anything bad about leather seats- except that due to their expense your car may be targeted for theft.

Leather seats can be 'less welcoming' in winter than cloth seats. So, many of them are also heated- and heated seats in the winter are a joy.

I'm looking to upgrade the seats in my del Sol, but the 'standard' is to install leather S2000 seats. Unfortunately, none of them are heated. Even in California it gets cold enough to desire a warm bum- especially driving at night with the targa open.

I say go for it.

They require proper care, otherwise they discolour, dry out and crack. So a good rub over with a hide feed every now and then, and a good waterproofer will keep it looking OK even if you occasionally get water on it. But wipe off any significant amounts of water, otherwise it will stain and harden the leather.

Not the greatest in hot climates (Australia) I have to say. If my M3 has been out in the sun and is quite hot (>30C), the seats get quite hot too.

Once you're in the car even with the air conditioning, because the leather can't really breathe you end up with a pretty sweaty back...

The newer cars seem to have slightly perforated leather which seems to help a bit. The newer air conditioning units do a bit better too. My 98 model struggles a bit with the Australian weather even after it's been serviced - the climate control has issues understanding our weather too.

Given you are from the UK though that is unlikely to be too much of an issue for you....

I find that a lot of women (actively!) dislike leather seats. Dunno why -- they never seem to give a coherent rationale for it.

Apart from that, I really like the feel of leather seats, the ease of slipping in/out of the car on them (not suede!), and their good looks and durability. Ditto for leather airline seats.

EDIT: but not BLACK leather seats -- way too hot on a sunny day. Other lighter tones are fine.

Cheers

People on the Briskoda forum a few years ago were raving about Seat Surgeons in York. Apparantly good service, and excellent workmanship (photos look great!). I'd say its definitely worth calling them up and getting a rough quote. You'd end up with bespoke leather in practically whatever colour you want, and the door cards too. Maybe they can even install heating while they're at it?

I haven't looked at the idea since my last car, but I am very tempted myself for the Mazda.

Hmmmmm, good point! They only do black.

Sein - Thanks for the link. I think if I did go for the Smart factory leather I would be very intereted in getting the door cards done to match.

Cheers

Cris.

Living in Washington DC, it gets very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. I would say the heat is worse than the cold in terms of it being hard to sit down at first!

The first several years that I drove I had a car with leather seats, and since then my car has had cloth. I definitely prefer the leather.

*edit*
Oh, and I agree that they need care, but if you're only planning on having this car for 4 years, I think you'll get away with pretty infrequent care. The car I mentioned that had leather looked great from '96 to '00, and only started cracking a year or two later.

One other advantage of leather is usually less static buildup. I used to get shocked nearly every time I got out of my car with cloth seats in the dry Colorado environment, and that issue went away when I got leather seats in the next car.

As for the heat with the black seats, just make sure to get a good sun shade and use it if you park in direct sun. I have all my windows tinted and also use a sunshade whenever I park, and it's worked well enough to deal with the heat issue. The worst thing for me beyond the seats has been the metal gearshifter. If I let that sit in direct sunlight, I usually have to wait a few minutes before driving off.

I would've said the auto 'box, paddles and air con are worth more than leather seats, certainly in terms of comfort and resale value anyway. I'd also consider the cruise option, it was worth every penny.

They are also expensive to replace if anything goes wrong, I learnt the hard way when I accidentally left a screwdriver in my back pocket and scratched up the base cushion, it cost £260 to replace.

I've finally sold my roadster so I might miss the heated seats come winter, I won't however miss the money I used to have to spend on it. I certainly won't be buying a new 4-2, I think they've ruined it.

I think that has more to do with the car rather than the upholstery material. When I was a teenager, my mom had a car with leather upholstery and it shocked me nearly every time I got out of the car, once through a leather jacket; the spark left a hole in the jacket. My car with cloth upholstery never shocked me.

I suppose this isn't really a huge problem in the Smart, but if you're inclined to take corners fast, cloth can keep you from sliding around in the seat as much.

one small trick.. grab the door so that you touch the metal BEFORE you put the feets on the ground. and keep a firm grib until you are all the way out

have saved me many shocks util i forget the small trick, but you will get a very good reminder

The Pulse model comes with paddle flip as standard now, air con is on my list too. It looks like cruise is off the list on the new model and I test drove one with auto and don't see the £220 value in it.



Why? It drives better, looks better and has a better spec. I must admit I do quite like the feeling you are just about to loose control feel of the old one, but the new one is much better for my needs now, it sits on the motorway much better.

One great improvement is the sound system, for £200 extra you get a really nice sounding system with a sub under the drivers seat, sounds just like any other car with a good system, the standard system doesn't come with iPod control, but it does have an aux in.

I think I will put leather on my list, thanks guys!

Sein - BTW I contacted that company, £600 +vat for the lot doing, thanks for the link!

Cheers

Cris.

I just don't think it looks as good as the old car. I had one for the afternoon and it didn't seem to hold the road any better than the old one, if anything it's handling was more unpredictable.

Apart from being expensive and painfully hot in the summer sun, leather seats are also likely to give you a sweaty arse. I always thought the Smart leather seats feel really cheap, not a patch on the ones I had in my 172, also because the leather is quite thin, they get creased to buggery and end up looking like an old lady's face.

It's a shame, but I don't think the 4-2 will ever be a daily driver for me again. Who knows, I may mellow in a few years and get a 2nd hand one as a second car. But for the same money as a Cabrio Passion I could get a Fiat 500 Sport with a bigger boot, rear seats, an extra year of warranty and dealers who don't work on the Mercedes hourly rate. The guy that bought my Roadster is an absolute smart nut. He's got 4 smarts including a gorgeous 4-2 Brabus Cabriolet and despairs for the future, he can't stand the new one.

The only difference in my case is that the cloth seat car was a 2000 Saturn SL2, and the Leather one was a 2002 Saturn SL2. They may have addressed the problem between model years somehow, but I always attributed it to the material and the environment. With the dry air in Colorado, it was just something I got used to.

I bet there was an additional grounding strap put in between those model years.

The whole issue of static shocks in cars is a tricky one. It's usually a combination of factors:

- Different brands and model of tire will (depending on the composition of the rubber) insulate the car from the ground by different amounts, possibly causing static buildup in the car's body as the air rushes over it. This can be seen sometimes when you buy a new set of tires for your car and suddenly notice that you're getting shocked when you weren't before, and vice-versa. They sell straps to attach to your car that dangle and rub the ground, supposedly to fix this problem. I tried those and it didn't work for me, so I can only conclude that my problem was caused by something else (or that the straps were substandard somehow).

- Different kinds of clothing, shoes and seat coverings, and their interaction thereof, can cause static buildup as you get in and out of the car. For instance, sometimes you'll notice the passenger being shocked when the driver doesn't get shocked, or vice versa.

- Different behaviors when getting out of the car, as was mentioned before; if your hand is already touching the car's metal when your feet hit the ground, you won't notice a shock because it will discharge through the soles of your shoes instead of your fingers.

- Different climate and weather. I noticed that I stopped getting shocked when I moved to Seattle, though the car, tires, and wardrobe hadn't changed.

In other words, I don't think there's a single discernable cause for every instance of car static. I think it can be caused by a bunch of different factors.

I have driven a few 500's. The car feels too small for me, with 2 people in it is much smaller than the Smart. Head room is a real problem for me, any option with the glass roof is a no go. Shame, it looks like such a good car. But it's still a Fiat and they haven't really moved the build quality up in line with the price. If you test drive one, just slam the boot and you will see what I mean.

The 500 was top of my list, but the dealers and the price along to with rubbish finance put me off. When you know that Fiat offers a 5 year warranty and free recovery in the rest of Europe along with much better finance you see that Fiat are just ripping off UK customers.

As for the rest of the small car market there just isn't anything exciting out there. The Smart isn't perfect that's for sure, but there just isn't anything out there that's better than what I have already got. If you take a £9k budget into a show room it really doesn't get you that much.

Cheers

Cris.

I drove both a Sport and a Lounge and I thought the build quality and standard equipment level was excellent, in line with other cars in the 10k price bracket and certainly better than the Punto we used to have. I didn't have a look at the base model, but then I wouldn't have bought the base model anyway. I considered putting £500 down on an Abarth 500 but I've decided to drive one first before parting with any money.

I maintain the biggest rip off is Smart only offering a 2 year warranty in the first place. A car that complicated should be at least 3 years, if only to bring it in line with just about every other car on the market in the UK.

Err - so why go into a showroom... (or at least a new car showroom).

I don't know if you've noticed but cars are lasting *way* longer than they used to.
Fair enough - I'm not a typical car-buyer - but I've only ever bought 2 new cars. A 3 year old in good condition is so much cheaper anywhere in the price spectrum.
The concepts of 'budget' and 'new car' don't really gel to me.

I couldn't agree more, I bought one car brand new, got that "new car" experience and don't need to do it again. I'll let other helpful people take those first 2-3 years of depreciation.

Eryl is tempted by the Citroen C6, was £35k new two years ago. Second hand prices are just hitting £15k. I think we'll wait til next year when they hit £10k

When we were at the Motorshow the other day, even the woman on the Citroen stand agreed you'd have to be mad to buy a C6 from new...

But buying the car new give you the opportunity to get the car exactly as you want, with the colors and extra accessories that you want. Which you can't with a second-hand car. At least not easily, and often not cheaply.

Stig

Yes, I agree. I love being able to drive the exact car I want. I also really hate fixing cars, I want something that will just drive me where I want and not break down.

The Smart does have a 2 year warranty, but the service plan tops that up to as long as you need.

Cheers

Cris.

Ha! Let's hope they didn't move the people that worked on the roadster over to the 4-2 then!

Except that cars seem to have more small niggly things go wrong with them in their 1st year than they do in the next 5

My '86 Jaguar had a couple of catastrophic (and spectacular) failures in the first year, then the next 15 were uneventful...

Still, my favourite car.

I suppose I just like new cars. The current Smart is the first new car I have ever owned and it has benn pretty much trouble free since I first picked it up.

Anyway, there is a new Smart model coming in October which uses their new mhd technology (basically it stops the engine when you pull up). So I think I will be putting in a order for one of those. Not much chance of getting one second hand

Cheers

Cris.

Suzuki Swift Sport?

Yes, it was 3rd on my list. Basically the running costs are too high for me. When you take the potential resale value it just didn't add up for me. A new Sport version is about £12k. Great car though.

Cheers

Cris.

My 4-2 was the most reliable car I've ever owned and my Roadster the worst. Two different cars, same manufacturer.



At the risk of sounding like my father, it sounds like it's just more to go wrong.

So is it going to be a standard feature or will it be an option?

It's going to be a standard feature across the range, even the Brabus from next year. The dealer (Smart Manchester) tells me it won't cost any more, and there are other spec improvements also, just trim mainly.

It's been an option in mainland Europe since late last year, so the technology has been proven. It's not like I am buy the latest thing that hasn't been tested or anything.

This model of Smart is over a year old now, so I am confident that any problems will have been sorted, there are not the common problems (so far) the the Smart Mk1 had in the start. In all there were 8 revisions for the Smart Mk1 mine was a v7 your a v8 (the ForTwo). Also this model does not have a turbo, a major failing point of the old engine. You can get a turbo version but we drove it last weekend and it really isn't very good, the gearbox can't keep up!

The UK will also be getting the cdi version next year some time, one of the lowest emission fossil fuel cars in production. That option will cost more, but I would have really thought about it as it gets 80mpg+ !!!

Cheers

Cris.

I would've said the major failing point of the engine has always been the gearbox. The changes are so slow, even in the new model. I like the concept of the semi-auto box, but the Smart one just leaves a lot to be desired. DSG seems like the best implementation for the money, but I'm going to stick with a manual for the next year or so.

I would agree, it is the weak point of the car.

I guess after 4 and a half years of driving a Smart I have just got used to it. The new turbo version is really bad though, the engine mapping seems all wrong for the gear ratios. I won't be putting my money there.

The mhd technology sounds pretty interesting, simple in principle but I bet it's not easy to make happen. I think the alternator and starter motor are the same unit, and the engine is able to start in the time it takes you to move your foot from the brake to the accelerator pedal.

I have settled on a wish list, leather, air con, in the £35 tax bracket and under £9k.

Cheers

Cris.

I've always found it amusing that A/C isn't an option here. It's a necessity. I honestly can't remember ever having seen a car for sale without A/C.

Obviously, I am aware that not everyone lives in a hot, humid climate, I just find it funny.

Heh. I'd find AC rather funny indeed in the UK!

I wonder if Smart offers the Mercedes MB TEX vinyl-ish leather replacement. I've got that on my 2002 E320 and it hasn't shown a wrinkle, crack, or stain yet. It's comfortable and even slightly vented via perforation.

On getting shocked: I always "beat it to the punch". After getting out but before I touch the metal to close the door, I rap my knuckles against the metal. This way, I know exactly when and where the shock will occur; no surprises.

On buying new: The only reason to buy new is when it's a very special car that you won't find used. Mercedes AMG, BMW M, Audi RS, Chrysler SRT, and exotic sports cars. Or if you do find them used, there's a good chance they'll have been tortured on a track or moded beyond spec. Oh, how I wish for a spare $80,000 to buy that W211 E63 AMG wagon....

On 1986 Jaguar: Of course you had interesting problems, it's a true Jaguar.

so are you going to part ex or will you sell it yourself? It seems to be a sellers market for smarts at the moment. Smart manchester offered me 8k for the roadster against a new passion cabriolet last november. In the end i sold it 9.5k last week. It currently only books for 8.

I think it's a little different for the Roadster, esp the Brabus version.

They have offered me a fair deal overall, so I think I will just trade it in. I don't think it's really worth selling myself. I have sold cars myself before, and I really can't be bothered with all the time wasters to be honest. I have had a couple of people I know want to buy it off me, but I don't think that is a good idea really.

Smart Manchester has confirmed the mhd version will be available but I don't have a firm delivery date yet. I can't find anything really bad to be said about this engine, so I think that is a winner for me. The great thing about this engine is that I can have air con and the wide tyres (Pulse tyres) and still come within the £35 tax band, I could even go for the automatic option.

Cheers

Cris.

What have they offered you for it? The second hand Smart market is incredibly strong for all the reasons you mentioned here. The only exception is the 4-4.
It ended up being fairly easy to sell privately. But then again it was in really good condition with relatively low mileage. I think it's always worth trying to sell privately first, i wish i'd done that with my Clio. I'd happily entertain a couple of knobheads for an afternoon if it meant i got more for my car.