They aren't insanely high, they work out cheaper over 18 months than the contract phones (or at least they do on some tariffs).

They aren't even insanely high compared to the iPad prices, in fact the 32GB iPhone is exactly the same as the 32GB iPad (and I'm sure the iPhone 4 costs no less to make than the iPad). They are basically the same price as the 3G/3GS was at launch (or at least close).

Sure I'd like to pay less, but why exactly do you think they are insanely high ?

They are of course high compared to the HTCs and Blackberrys, which you can get "free" on some relatively low tariffs. But that isn't news. The iPhone is 25%-30% more pricey that the "equivalent" phones from other people. But then I, and I suspect you, don't think they are equivalent at all

Because 887 dollars is a lot of fucking money?

"Markup" over BOM and accessories, exclusive of software, on the iPhone is much higher than 55%.

Many people don't look at the cost to develop the software/OS when places like iSuppli do an analysis. It's an extremely important aspect of pricing a product because those costs need to be amortized and recouped, while still making a healthy profit. However, these development costs don't break down per unit in a manufacturing business. The more units you sell, the better you can thin out those expenses.

The prices for the iPhone are more expensive than the iPad here in Canada. I don't know how much the iPad costs in the UK. Also, on contract, you're going to pay large monthly fees even with a throw-away phone from the Canadian providers (or if you provide your own phone). You're definitely coming out ahead on the subsidized price.

It's going to be interesting to see the updated prices in Hong Kong for comparison.

And no, an iPhone as a personal-use item is not worth $880 to me.

Had the iPhone stayed on o2 only but was available unlocked direct from Apple, I'd probably have bought one. But why spend so much money upfront and still pay for calls and data when you could still pay for the usage and get the handset at a subsidised price from a wide choice of carriers?

To me, the only attraction of an unlocked phone is that it makes it easier to sell on second hand.

Keep in mind the UK prices include 17.5% taxes, and 19.6% from France. Updating your chart with pretax numbers for a better comparison of what Apple is actually pulling in.


Not sure if the price in Canada was pre or post tax.

OK, you guys. I can't stand it. How do you put those nifty formatted tables into the bbs?

tanstaafl.

Looks like they're using HTML as they're moderator and above level.

Yeah. We're above the law.

abuse of power!

This is what video chat looks like on Android - using third party software, the only way to accomplish it (when it works)... Oh, before you click, a warning, it's bloody ugly.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/19/video-call-on-fring-for-android-bringing-htc-evo-4g-and-dell-st/

Randomly cancelled preorders.

You're seriously complaining about third party apps looking ugly?

Because when I do the maths it is cheaper off contract. In reality the contract price isn't subsidised at all (on the O2 tariffs that I use).

Why would I want to choose the option where I end up paying more in the long run ?

No, just putting out a warning. It's a fact, I'm just stating it to prevent shock when you click the link. If you want to read complaints you can read reviews of the two video chat apps and how it's tricky as hell to even get them working - and once you do, how badly they perform.

If you want to say I'm complaining, technically it's that Android doesn't have video chat. Another Apple first. Though I'm sure something's wrong with Apple's implementation as well (I've made my position on their built-in apps pretty clear already )

Ah okay because there are plenty of absolutely fugly and crap apps on the app store :P Same again for the Android market.


Ehh. My ancient Nokia has had video chat for years. It is just Android that doesn't have it.

Uh, yeah, as Trevor said, that's a ridiculous statement, as other phones have had video chat for years.

Besides, it's simply incorrect. The EVO 4G had video chat through Qik at launch. You can do it NOW. The iPhone 4 isn't even out yet. No, Android doesn't have video chat built in to the OS, but it can do it, so I think we're talking about a distinction without a difference.


You mean other than only being iPhone 4 to iPhone 4 and only over WiFi?


Sheesh, I don't even care about video chat. I don't even want to do it...

I hate to bicker, but I can't find a phone from anyone else, that's currently or has been in the past, shipping, that offers built-in video chat. Admittedly I only did a few Google searches. I did turn up some software hacks and perhaps one web service.

A couple of weeks ago people were proclaiming that the EVO was the first phone to make video chat possible. But there's no such feature built-in. There's a commercial solution (supposedly) from Qik, but I also haven't seen anyone mention getting it to work.

The iPhone 4 has started to ship and it's the first mobile that I've ever heard of, or that I can bring up Google results for, that comes with built-in video chat of any kind. Bonus that it uses a front facing camera so that you can actually frame yourself and use the handset while chatting.

Apple software and the iPhone are always going to have any number of issues, quirks and simply me missing stuff one would hope they should already have (including some polish in a number of areas). But they're always going to be better than everything from Nokia, HTC or Google. That's simply not going to change for today and I frankly don't see it changing until perhaps a decade or two after Steve Jobs dies.

I just wish the best of the worst really turned my crank.

Video calls over 3G have been around for years. No clue about video calls over WiFi but thats not really the point is it? Apple introduce video calls that only work via WiFi and its revolutionary?

My first Google search turned up this from 2005:

http://www.mobile-phones-uk.org.uk/nokia-n70.htm

Plenty of Nokias (and others including all the phones that launched the 3 network in the UK) have had 3G video calling, it is just no one has ever wanted to actually use it...

Only time will tell whether Steve can convince the world that it is ready for video calls. I remain to be convinced. I didn't think Apple would ever put a front facing camera on the iPhone, so I've been wrong at least once on this subject...

Instructions for making video calls with the very much current Nokia 5800:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/...XpressMusic.php

and a couple of 3G video calling capable handsets from 2004:

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/December2004/8812.htm

N.B. making a video call on these handset doesn't require setting up an account of any sort (why does that sound familiar), you just need to call someone else with a 3G video call equipped handset. Though of course no one ever did

The Nokia N80 I bought just over 4 years ago also had a front-mounted camera for video calls. Think I tried it once or twice, since when 3G was rolling out in Norway, video calls were free for a period while regular calls were not.

Stig

They have indeed been around forever, and I did even once make a video call on my N70. The problem with video calls based on that standard included:

- It was a circuit switched data call vs packet network. That's great on some fronts (eg low latency) but hideous on others (trying to call someone on another operator was tricky as it didn't often work, and pretty much forget about it calling abroad). Plus, the operator could charge you through the nose as the call type was totally different.

- There was a hard bitrate limit enforced by using UMTS (384kbit) as that was the maximum uplink available at the time. That, and using H263 meant the quality sucked, frankly. I think it was only QCIF (176x144?) and maybe 5-10 frames per second.

I'm not saying that I'd use FaceTime myself (it doesn't feel natural to look at a phone when having a conversation if you ask me) but the 3G standard video conferencing looks so poor compared to iChat/Skype that it's very hard to take it seriously at all. Things have moved on, people expect a lot more these days.

I don't think anyone ever said that the EVO was the first to have video chat. And Qik is not only pre-installed on the EVO 4G, but advertised right on the ugly-but-planet-friendly cup-o-noodles packaging.

Really? That qualifies as "bloody ugly"? Eh.

This article and several others say Qik pulled the app from the marketplace since it was so popular, to prevent overloading their servers. Seems the preloaded version didn't include video chat as an option, forcing Evo users to download the newer version.

Oops, looks like where ever I read that was wrong. According to Apple, FaceTime takes over voice as well, ending the phone call if the session is started from an active phone call.