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#335782 - 04/08/2010 12:52 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable)
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	I'm currently in the process of getting a computer installed in my basement of my rental home. Wireless is already unreliable on that side of the house on the top floor so I expect the basement to be really bad and I really prefer wired connections when I can. So I was poking around and found some already ran telephone wire that is most likely Category 3. Since I'm lazy and don't really want to drill more holes in the wall/floor I was wondering if I could possibly wire it up in some way to get 100 megabit speed. 100BaseT4 seems to be a standard that allows this but I can't find any information about it. So has anyone been successful using 100BaseT4 over phone wires? Is the cabling pinout the same as normal?
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#335783 - 04/08/2010 13:16 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Uh. Where are you going to get the 100BASE-T4 cards and switches from?
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#335784 - 04/08/2010 13:36 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: tman]
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	That is part of my question- some documents seem to suggest 100BaseT-4 is supported by all network equipment and is part of the standard autonegotiation scheme. I'm not really sure about that though..
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#335785 - 04/08/2010 13:54 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
hybrid8 carpal tunnel Registered: 12/11/2001 Posts: 7738 Loc: Toronto, CANADA	Aren't the pin-outs and wiring information here enough for a test-drive? http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_lan.htm It kind of sounds like it's terminated the same way except all 4 pairs must be used. Not really sure how that will work using the gear you have on you now. _________________________ Bruno Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software
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#335786 - 04/08/2010 14:47 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: hybrid8]
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	Well I have a couple RJ45 jacks and a punch tool so that should work- I will give it a try.
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#335787 - 04/08/2010 14:52 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Originally Posted By: siberia37 That is part of my question- some documents seem to suggest 100BaseT-4 is supported by all network equipment and is part of the standard autonegotiation scheme. I'm not really sure about that though.. Doesn't appear to be. I just looked at some NICs and they only mention 100BASE-TX. I'd expect them to mention 100BASE-T4 as well if it supported it. [edit]I thought a 3com card did both but it mentions a 3C905 and a 3C905-TX so I guess not[/url] Edited by tman (04/08/2010 14:57)
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#335788 - 04/08/2010 14:56 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Originally Posted By: siberia37 Well I have a couple RJ45 jacks and a punch tool so that should work- I will give it a try. 100BASE-TX will run over Cat3 but it'll have crosstalk issues and will most probably either not work at full speed or downgrade itself to 10BASE-T operation. Similar to if you incorrectly wire a Cat5 cable where the wires aren't correctly paired.
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#335789 - 04/08/2010 14:58 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: tman]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	You could try powerline networking like HomePlug.
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#335790 - 04/08/2010 15:10 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: tman]
andym carpal tunnel Registered: 17/01/2002 Posts: 3995 Loc: Manchester UK	Originally Posted By: tman You could try powerline networking like HomePlug. Hope you don't listen to the radio in your house then. _________________________ Cheers, Andy M
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#335792 - 04/08/2010 15:29 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: andym]
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	I think I will just wire up the plug for 10/100BaseT (standard wiring) and see what happens. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will work at 100Mpbs. If I'm stuck with 10Mpbs I will just have to try out the Wireless Repeater trick Mark mentions in another thread.
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#335795 - 04/08/2010 19:21 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
wfaulk carpal tunnel Registered: 25/12/2000 Posts: 16706 Loc: Raleigh, NC US	Buy a ball of twine, preferably some sort of tough plastic twine, and tie the end very securely to one end of the existing cable. Now yank the cable out of the wall from the other end. Hopefully, you'll end up with a piece of twine running where the cable was. Now tie some Cat5 cable and another piece of twine to the end of the piece that's running through your walls, and pull that back through. Now you have a new piece of cable running through your walls, along with a piece of twine that you can use to pull another cable in the future, should you decide you need something else. I make it sound far easier than it is, but it's worth a shot. Also, when you say you suspect that the current cable is Cat3, you do know that Cat3 is still twisted-pair, right? It's relatively uncommon to find that in anything but fairly new homes. Chances are that it's just plain flat 4-conductor telephone cable. Which means that it's rated at far less than Cat3, and doesn't have enough conductors anyway. (100BaseT4 requires 8 conductors.) _________________________ Bitt Faulk
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#335796 - 04/08/2010 19:31 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: wfaulk]
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	Originally Posted By: wfaulk Buy a ball of twine, preferably some sort of tough plastic twine, and tie the end very securely to one end of the existing cable. Now yank the cable out of the wall from the other end. Hopefully, you'll end up with a piece of twine running where the cable was. Now tie some Cat5 cable and another piece of twine to the end of the piece that's running through your walls, and pull that back through. Now you have a new piece of cable running through your walls, along with a piece of twine that you can use to pull another cable in the future, should you decide you need something else. I make it sound far easier than it is, but it's worth a shot. Also, when you say you suspect that the current cable is Cat3, you do know that Cat3 is still twisted-pair, right? It's relatively uncommon to find that in anything but fairly new homes. Chances are that it's just plain flat 4-conductor telephone cable. Which means that it's rated at far less than Cat3, and doesn't have enough conductors anyway. (100BaseT4 requires 8 conductors.) I don't think I could follow the existing run even with the twine method- at least not without making various entry point bigger- the cable run coming up through the wall is pretty tight. I looked at the cable again today- there were definetly more than 4 conductors (I didn't count the exact number) and it was colored much like Cat5 cable. Maybe it's Cat5 cable after all.
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#335797 - 04/08/2010 19:57 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Originally Posted By: siberia37 I looked at the cable again today- there were definetly more than 4 conductors (I didn't count the exact number) and it was colored much like Cat5 cable. Maybe it's Cat5 cable after all. Look at the cable sheath to see if there are any markings. Cat3 has 4 pairs like Cat5.
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#335798 - 04/08/2010 20:31 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: tman]
Cris pooh-bah Registered: 06/02/2002 Posts: 1904 Loc: Leeds, UK	How long is the run? If it's not too long you may get away with treating it like it's Cat5, even if it isn't. I'd certainly give it a go before pulling in a new cable. I think you only need 4 out of the 8 conductors for it to work anyway, Google that first Cheers Cris.
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#335800 - 04/08/2010 22:51 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: Cris]
larry818 old hand Registered: 01/10/2002 Posts: 1033 Loc: Fullerton, Calif.	Cat 5 is colored like telephone wires from the 1960s. My mom's 1964 house has what looks like cat 5 in it, same colors, twisted, but predates cat 5 by a few decades...
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#335812 - 05/08/2010 13:41 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: larry818]
siberia37 old hand Registered: 09/01/2002 Posts: 702 Loc: Tacoma,WA	Update- definetly it's Cat 5 cable 8 conductors and all the color codes match. I tried wiring it up last night but my poor tools prevented a good crimp. Off to get some better plugs tonight. I suspect the previous owner must have had it installed for DSL perhaps?
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#335813 - 05/08/2010 13:57 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: siberia37]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Originally Posted By: siberia37 definetly it's Cat 5 cable 8 conductors and all the color codes match It has Cat5 written on it? Originally Posted By: siberia37 I tried wiring it up last night but my poor tools prevented a good crimp. Off to get some better plugs tonight. Get the correct type of plug for your cable. Plugs for stranded cable aren't the same as plugs for solid core cable.
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#335814 - 05/08/2010 14:05 Re: 100BaseT4 (or I'm too lazy to run a Cat5 cable) [Re: larry818]
wfaulk carpal tunnel Registered: 25/12/2000 Posts: 16706 Loc: Raleigh, NC US	That's weird. Telephone cables were almost always green, red, black, and yellow, with a relatively rare third pair of orange and blue. Whereas Cat3/5 is orange, blue, green, and brown solid and striped pairs. _________________________ Bitt Faulk
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