At the uppermost layers, where "blindly believe this" proclamations generally originate, the "Church" for much of the past 1000 years has been little more than a massive Mafioso style of organisation. Much much more concerned with profit and politics than with understanding what God wants.

So "church as a whole" has zero weight for me, despite the years I wasted trying to figure them out.

The translation you're quoting is probably not true to the original speech, so I wouldn't place absolute trust into specific words translated 3rd hand from somebody's memoirs that were likely written far after the original conversations.

The general gist of it, sure, but specific wordings? Forget it.

Cheers

The best I can do is link to something that is an authority on Koine Greek.

Strong's Concordance shows that the word translated here as "commanded" is used only four times before that in Matthew, and it seems remarkably unlikely that Jesus was intending for them to only follow those four specific things.

To be fair, I posted the NIV for whatever reason, which is far from a "literal" word for word type translation of the sources we have anyway.

I think the notion being conveyed is pretty clear, though, whether the word commandment was used or not.

When someone says something like "all authority on heaven and earth" and then follows it up with an idea of something you are supposed to do, I don't generally take that as a suggestion.

And this is an excellent clarification, because this is how I originally took what you said. The person who turns every conversation into a discourse on faith no matter what the situation tends to come across (to me at least) as trying to push a personal agenda. This is doubly so if the person doesn't really act on the things he or she is stating. On the other hand, the person who acts in a way consistent with his/her beliefs is much more credible, even if they aren't constantly beating you over the head with said beliefs. And I think that is closer to the point you were trying to make.

Mark: There's no point in trying to argue on what the "true" meaning of the text is. Christians feel that they are commanded to do something, and so they do.

One of my former grad students was Mormon, and they have what I understand to be a similarly strong requirement to "spread the word." He never, ever brought up his faith unless you asked him about it.

I find all of this fascinating in contrast with the Jewish notions of conversion, which vary by denomination, but generally work to discourage conversion. If anything, there's notably more internal evangelism toward "secular" Jews than external evangelism to the rest of the world.

(Snide thought: if you think of religions as "memes", then memes that require their followers to spread them are going to be that much more successful.)

Me, either. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, so I evaluate the "something you are supposed to do" on its own merits.

I don't really get along well with commandments. I'm much more responsive to polite requests. Must be the Canadian in me.

For me, it depends on the authority. I have no problem submitting to authority if I trust in that authority.

ROFL ... best argument ever.