My oldest daughter is a junior in high school and does very well academically. She is in the National Honor Society and has close to a 4.0 average. However, we have been having problems with about every aspect of public schooling (you would not believe the BS hassles we have endured). My wife and daughter both are very adamant about not attending her senior year at this school. The options are to send her to another public school (about 30 miles away) or home school her.

My wife really wants to home school her and is very capable since she has been a substitute teacher on and off for years. We could also sign her up for online learning as well. My daughter’s preference is to go to the next closest public school (like I said, 30 miles away) but would home school as a second choice.

My main concern is that my daughter is up for an honors diploma at her high school and if she home schooled she would only get a GED. I’ve always looked down on GED’s but maybe I’ve been wrong. She is definitely planning on college and hopefully scholarships.

Opinions?

Another school, if only for the social interaction. I also don't believe a parent should be the primary curricular teacher for their own child, regardless of how capable that parent may be as a teacher. The parent-child relationship is always going to be there and it's just not as objective as with a third-party.

If it's her preferences and she can drive herself there and back, I can't see any reason that you would want to home school her.

Well my wife is not a fan of the public school system in general. She believes that individual learning gets better results than a classroom experience. The student can learn at their own pace, concentrate on what interests them the most, and not have to deal with the distractions of other kids and the drama that goes with it. Plus I agree with her that most teachers seem to just be putting in their time and don’t give a rat’s ass about the student. I can’t blame them a lot on that seeing the crap they have to put up with from most of the kids.

The other concern I have is money. It will cost about $1k for the other school plus a lot in gas/car costs. That money could be better used for her college education. Plus she might just run into the same shit at the other school.

I will just throw in that I have been working very closely with a home schooled teenager at our church, and she is one of the brightest, most reliable, well spoken people I have ever met. Her siblings (4) were not home schooled, so I don't know why they decided to do it with her, but she has certainly not suffered in terms of either her education or her ability to relate socially with others. I have seen plenty of examples of home schooled students who struggle with social skills, but in this case I think she has quite a few social outlets (she is involved in the youth group at church, the worship team with me, and performs regularly in a local theater group). The most surprising thing to me is her independent thought from her parents- we have discussed numerous things that her parents have very strict beliefs and she differs, and they are comfortable with this. I would have figured in a home schooling situation this would be a difficult thing- you would expect the child to parrot the parents.

From talking with her, the only thing she regrets is missing prom

I know there would have been no way in hell my parents could have been my teacher. I just would not have listened, but that's me. My daughter and wife are definitely of a different mind set.

The one thing a parent-teacher has going for them rather than a stranger-teacher is the concern the student. If 10% of the teachers I’ve had over the years gave any thought to my welfare in any way I’d be surprised.

We've already started home schooling our four year old and will continue down that path with her (She is at a first grade level already). The wife and daughter attend a home school coop that meets every Friday. She gets different perspectives from other teachers and socialization with there as well as gymnastics.

Hopefully this will be enough interaction with other kids. I think it may cut down on the over interaction that leads bullying and other anti-social behavior.

I think for the youngest home schooling is the way to go since she does not wish to be as outgoing as the oldest.

Doesn't that mean that the "different" perspectives she gets are from other children whose parents have the same opinion on home schooling...

I'm referring to the "different" perspectives of life and learning. At four years old the concepts of home schooling verses public schooling are a bit beyond her.

These home schooling people are definitely not all the same. I was nervous that they would all be religious cult nuts but that is not the case.

We’re going to try to see how this goes with the second child. If it doesn’t work out we’ll just enroll her in school. I just think for the oldest she has been in a school environment her entire life and I think the change will not benefit her in the long run. But I’m trying to keep an open mind.

According to my wife, who has nearly 40 years public schools experience as a school psychologist, with the GED you can forget about scholarships.

She says there are many other alternatives, and you should be able to find an accredited on-line program, perhaps in conjunction with home-schooling, that would maintain her eligibility for scholarship assistance.

I think Bruno made a good point about the parent-child relationship interfering with teaching objectivity.

tanstaafl.

I would be more worried about the social aspect with a younger child that has only been home schooled. I would guess the older kid has friends already.

The relatives I have that home school are the religious nut types

I'm hoping we can send our kid to a private school.

Home schooling is fundamentally about investing a huge amount of your own personal time and energy into your kid. That's not something that I or my wife could do, simply because our jobs are too demanding. If you've got the option, and you think you can do it properly (versus having the usual parent-child squabbles and such), then it's worth considering.

That said, doing it "properly" is tricky at the high school senior level. You don't necessarily have access to the science labs, nor can you hope to have all the skill and expertise of the school teachers in each and every subject that the school teachers.

It sounds like you're satisfied with your school, from an educational perspective, but you're unsatisfied with the student culture. At that point, shifting to a different school might be a valid response to the problem.

For what it's worth, I was perfectly happy (*) going to public schools all the way through, but my sister hit a wall in 10th grade, when she felt the arts and literature in our public high school just didn't cut it. She talked my parents into sending her to the local private girls' high school ($$$), which was much better at this sort of thing.

(*) Well, as happy as I would have been anywhere else...

Why would the other public school cost $1000? I can understand the concern about the travel expenses. That is going to be about $10 a day in just gas.

This is what I would worry about too. I would think if you were a parent who'd been homeschooling for years, you'd probably have had enough practice with the dynamic when going over the easier subjects, then by the time they were in high school the two of you would know how the relationship works. You'd also have time to prepare for the more challenging coursework a senior *should* have.

Along those lines, Redrum, what kind of courses is your daughter taking? Would she be taking any AP classes next year? In the area I went to high school, AP courses were a pretty big deal. I had what was considered a pretty light load of AP's and 3 out of my 7 senior courses were AP. Most of my friends had more like 5 and took one or two in their junior year. Courses like that would be extremely challenging for a parent to teach, as theoretically they should be college-level.

What part of the country are you in? 30 miles is pretty far between high schools...

IMO, I just can't help but feel like home schooling is a little weird. I know that probably isn't fair and that there are success stories, but I can't help but have this impression that it's mostly religious types who aren't even happy merely having their kids excused on the days their Bio class talks about evolution.

College Financial Aid and Scholarships is mostly based on your Standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores. Maybe some scholarships that don't take those tests into account might not be available but that is a small portion of them. I know several people with GEDs and very high SAT scores- they had no problem getting plently of Financial Aid.

I don't think the social aspect is really the issue it used to be,
though it depends on the area. In places where home-schooling carries a
broader acceptance, it's no longer little Johnny at home by himself all
day with mommy. Instead, it's starting to approach a traditional education
class structure, with home-school co-ops forming, and different parents
teaching different sections.

I've seen a little bit of the teaching materials, and for the most part, it
seems reasonable, although there is still a pretty heavy emphasis on putting
God and Bible references all over. The last one I picked up, I think, was
something similar to "God and Phonics."

Yes, unfortunately we called and the transfer fee (or whatever) is $750 plus another approximately $500 for books and the like. It seems like public schools have taken the same stance as colleges and are charging for books and all kinds of other fees. Especially in the honors classes. I don't like to know what money goes out (the wife handles the bills) so when she told me how much money we shell out now to the public education I was shocked.

Yes, this is one of my augments as well. Jumping in to home schooling at a high school honors level is too much. I believe all my daughter’s classes are all at the highest AP level. We have pushed her hard over the years and my wife has made sure she has been in the hardest top classes every year.

Unfortunately, in some respects, we live WAY out in the country. The nearest Walmart is 35 miles away. The next nearest half way good school is 30 miles away.

I too have thought of home schoolers as mostly religious nuts but the more I learn about the mainstream home schooler the more I’m finding out there is a growing number of them that for a multitude of reasons believe our current system is not working. When you think about it schools where primarily to train kids to work in factories. The bell rings you move on to the next task. Churning out kids to work in a factory just isn’t going to cut it in the USA anymore. Most of the schools even look like factories

My wife has argued the SAT/ACT scholarship route as well and has talked with colleges that confirm that is what they now mostly use.

I don’t know, I’m still old school and look at a GED (or home school diploma) as someone who couldn’t make the grade in a real school. I'm on the fence here

The wife is a social bug. She draws the kids into all kinds of social activities. I really don’t have any concerns about social interaction. I know many people label home schoolers as socially inept but I think that is just a stereo type derived from the nut jobs that home school in commune/cults.

And, of course, there is that set of kids who are home-schooled explicitly because they have emotional problems.

So my brother-in-law and sister-in-law chose home school for their junior and senior years of high school. In their case, the public schools in their part of the DC area are pretty bad. So much so, that most people who can afford it choose private schools or other alternatives.

They found a home school co-op (sounds like you are already part of one for your younger child.) This particular co-op was a classical education where they study logic and rhetoric and other classical subjects. They would go to class at the co-op 3 mornings a week and do home school for the rest.

I was extremely impressed with the quality of the education. They were far more prepared for college that I was. They had already a high skill level in research and academic writing, they were skilled in self-learning and budgeting their time. My sister-in-law is now flying through college and excelling. Their co-op had opportunities for sports, prom and most of the things they'd miss out on at a traditional school. Even got a regular diploma.

As open-minded as you guys are about most things, I'm surprised how many of you are so closed to alternative avenues for education. Shame, Shame. Surely you can't think that our public school system is the pinnacle of educational opportunity? Also, learning to self-educate is a valuable skill for college and life in general. Surely it's not a terrible idea to start that transition in a more forgiving environment?

I'd say to make an honest evaluation as to whether she has the motivation and work ethic to home school. If she does, then go for it. If not, the cost of the transfer pales in comparison to private school tuition. It's not a bad option if the school culture is that much better than the local one. Just take it out of her clothing budget

EDIT: I'm going to have to home school my kids if I live here long enough. Really, we've already started. We have learning time with my two-year old every day (about an hour a day). It'll be interesting to see how my thoughts on it develop. She'll still attend the village school at least part-time, but many finish primary school with a third-grade level education, and I'm not willing to settle for that with my kids.

I expect that our viewpoints on public schooling and home schooling are based on our own experiences at primary schools. I feel like I was given a good education by public schools. I know people who I believe are giving their children good educations by home-schooling, and I also know people who I believe are hobbling their children with poor home schooling.

The coop situation, does put things into a new light. At least in my opinion. I'm already taking it for granted that the parents doing the teaching are going to be good at what they do, given the forum of discussion.

I don't see anyone here who's closed to the idea home schooling as a general rule. A dozen or so posts in, all I've seen are very real concerns about the lack of socialization, the concern that parents would have difficulty being objective and adequately measuring progress, etc. Those are just two of many reasons why the decision to home school should be considered very carefully.

Now, my wife and I don't have kids, and won't for some time, so I don't have personal experience with any of these issues. But I do happen to have three coworkers whose wives home school their kids (which is quite a statistical aberration) and I've had a fair number of conversations with them about the pros, cons, etc.

Let's start with the easiest and least refutable knock against home schooling, which is that it's completely out of the goddamn question for single parent or dual parent, dual income families. If home schooling your child isn't taking up at least a full time job's worth of your time and effort, you are Doing. It. Wrong.

So, for those lucky few for whom a parent can put in the time and effort required to be a good home school teacher, you also need that parent to understand enough about all of the subjects to teach them. At early grade levels, this is easy, but I'd imagine by the time you're getting to high school level classes, college AP material, etc. the material becomes challenging for anyone who hasn't already been a professional teacher or homeschooled their other kids. At this point, the teacher must become the student, and not all parents will be able to keep up. This is also one of the benefits of home schooling, that it motivates the parents to keep learning, but not everyone is going to have the kind of focus necessary to learn the material well enough to teach it properly.



I think one can simultaneously believe that (a) our public education system is very troubled and (b) home schooling is not the answer for an overwhelming majority of children. I think (b) almost proves itself just when you factor in its lack of applicability to most dual-income and single-parent situations, leaving aside the admittedly more difficult to prove critiques pertaining to social aspects, the lack of objectivity, parental teaching aptitude, etc. I also think that resolving (a) by focusing on improving the public schools rather than abandoning them is better for our society than everyone turning inward and fending for themselves.

Redrum, for your situation specifically, I just can't see how changing horses mid-stream (or toward the end of the stream) makes sense. What is so bad about this school? Your daughter has managed to do very well academically in this supposedly terrible environment. She's got one year left. What could possibly be so bad to cause you to try to make this change at the 11th hour? Not to take anything away from your wife, who I'm sure is a very capable teacher, but is she going to have enough detailed knowledge of all the subjects your daughter is going to want to learn, and is she going to have the time to learn the portions she needs to bone up on in time to teach them to your daughter?

This, combined with the possibility of colleges / scholarships looking down on a GED, or questioning the decision to home school the final year, I just don't see what's really gained by making such a drastic move this late in the game.

I don't think the schools are the same as when we went.

Yes, your 11th hour reasoning, the scholarship/GED issues and one other main thing I haven’t brought up – my daughter’s lack of self-motivation are the three main reasons I don’t think we will home school her. I’ve tried to keep an open mind though.

With the youngest we are going to give it a shot. If we/she can’t handle it we’ll ship her off to the factory.

In regards to our objectiveness of our daughter I don’t think that will be an issue. When something “happens” we are the first to blame our daughter. Kids lie, cheat, steal and are basically rotten animals (well maybe not that bad but…. ) . We are definitely not blind to what our daughter is capable of and not capable of. I know some parents think there kids can walk on water and do no wrong. We don’t fall into that mold.

Yes, I did not bring it up earlier but she is not a self-motivator. While her work ethic is good (as long as she is working for someone else, working for us, forget it) her lack of motivation and typical teen age disobedience are definitely a factor in the decision.

We do have a good private school that would be an option if money wasn’t. The school would run close to $10k a year. We did send her to a private Catholic school until the eight grade (Even though we are not Catholic). It was a great school and ranked well above any school in this area. Unfortunately it only went to the eight grade.

It was even run by a nun with a ruler in hand .

That's also a different situation than most of us have. The DC school system is abysmal (even when it isn't receiving envelopes with white powder in them). Private schools are big in this area and the main alternative, but they're also insanely expensive, often costing more than an out of state university!

I count myself lucky that I went to the best public school in the state of Virginia (that wasn't a magnet school). I was given a fantastic education, even if I didn't always receive it so well I can't speak to the challenges of a bad schooling situation, but despite having a great school system in my area, there are still those who choose to home school, and that doesn't make sense to me. That's why I note that every one of those families has been very religious, so that colors my impression of why a family would choose to home school. It's not the same in other areas, but that's what it seems to be in this particular area.

very religious != evil

very religious education != bad education

bad education == bad education

There are good public schools and there are bad public schools. There are good home-schoolers and bad home-schoolers.

I know a socially well-adjusted home-schooled guy who started university at age 16, graduated Summa Cum Laude and proceeded to earn his doctorate in mathematics by age 25. He was my professor for 'data structures and algorithmic analysis'.

I know another home-schooled kid that is socially inept, poorly educated, and otherwise unable to function effectively in society. He's basically doomed to live with his parents for the rest of his life.

I could come up with equally successful and harmful stories from public schools. Just because one can find bad examples doesn't mean it's a bad form of education. I'd be very interested to see statistics on standardized test scores on home-schooled kids vs. publicly educated kids. Also would be interested to see how that translates to future careers. Don't know where to look for those stats though.

What I do have is 10 years of experience working in education and a father who was a teacher and school administrator for 15 year. He has his doctorate in educational administration and did his dissertation on parent-assisted education. Experience tells me that home schooling can be either good or bad, but works out very well for the student a high percentage of the time.