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#354767 - 11/09/2012 11:59 iPhone 5 (and iOS 6)
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
or Samsung's next blueprint. smile

Lots of rumors and leaks abound that I'm sure everyone who cares has already seen.

Let me start with iOS 6 and omissions: I'm extremely happy to see that Apple has dropped the YouTube app and I really wish they'd continue that trend with other built-in apps. Not because I have something against YouTube, but because I didn't like the built-in app. Now someone who doesn't want the app doesn't have to have it installed taking up space and anyone who does, can grab a (much) better alternative. This is a very positive move IMO. But it's not yet a trend. wink

I'm still holding hope, though not my breath, that we might see some kind of "default apps" functionality before iOS 10.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354769 - 11/09/2012 12:29 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I just hope that there is some secret stealth update for Apple's UK mapping coming before the release of iOS6.

At the moment it is still awful.
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#354771 - 11/09/2012 12:37 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
sn00p
addict

Registered: 24/07/2002
Posts: 618
Loc: South London
IMHO iOS 6 is crap.

If you're going to replace functionality (maps) then you really ought replace it with something that's at least as good if not better.

Maps in iOS 6 is like stepping back 8 years, they're almost unusable here in London, I constantly have to zoom "way out" to get a frame of reference.

I know they're not exactly renowned for their massive changes between versions, but basically they've taken iOS 5, made it worse and then rebadged it as iOS6, winning.

Adrian



Edited by sn00p (11/09/2012 13:02)

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#354778 - 11/09/2012 15:51 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: sn00p]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
That's unfortunate. I can only imagine how bad the maps app must be, as I thought the previous versions were all absolutely terrible (UI, design, map tiles, directions, etc.)


Edited by hybrid8 (11/09/2012 15:52)
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Bruno
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#354779 - 11/09/2012 16:32 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
I can only assume that Google will finally bring a maps app that's on par with the Android app. The one on Android is phenomenal and extremely useful. I use it every day to determine which route home has the least traffic, and it's super fast and easy to use. Plus it hasn't had those tiles for years.

Sadly, I doubt they'll have those application defaults you're asking for, Bruno.
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Matt

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#354780 - 11/09/2012 17:18 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Honestly, if I could, I'd probably replace every single default iOS app with something else.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354795 - 12/09/2012 15:13 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
See, check out Engaget's liveblog and you'll see what I'm talking about when I say that most people don't know shit about design and human experience. Their page top-posts new content and pushes old content down automatically. When you scroll anywhere else on the page, the content jumps around. The page takes over your keyboard shortcuts and you can't even create a new tab while that one is in focus.

Oh, and it's almost impossible to read.

Seriously?

How about doing it properly where new content adds under old content and an options to keep focus on the bottom of the content at all times making the page scroll up, or static window view so that old content stays above and new content adds below the fold?

Na, too smart, too usable.



Edited by hybrid8 (12/09/2012 15:14)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354796 - 12/09/2012 15:29 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
It's pretty clear (really has been for a long time), that hand-held console gaming on the previously traditional platforms has taken a distant back seat to mobile phones in every conceivable metric.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354798 - 12/09/2012 16:25 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
I presume the intent is for readers to view the now updating content, ie the current slide and the last few statements. Yeah not a great way of doing it, but it does live up to its name of liveblog, the user having to do anything, would just make it a regular blog.

There is a pause button for those who insist on reading the old stuff while the liveblog is in progress...

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#354799 - 12/09/2012 16:40 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Phoenix42]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Adding to the bottom with the view pegged to the bottom of the screen is the best and more natural way to do it. You still see everything new, and you don't have to see it appear backwards. Hijacking keyboard input completely also really sucks. I'm surprised a web page can even do that. IMO, huge security hole.

Surprisingly they didn't kill the old iPod Touch. Kind of tacky decision IMO, that thing is already 2 years old. Like every iPhone event since the first, Apple has mostly impressed with the hardware, but the software advancement for OS/built-in apps has been a real let-down overall.


Edited by hybrid8 (12/09/2012 16:48)
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Bruno
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#354800 - 12/09/2012 16:57 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1424
Loc: MA but Irish born
I'm not following it, did they intro a new iTouch? Maybe the old one is been kept around at a lower price. It is likely good enough for many.

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#354801 - 12/09/2012 17:07 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Phoenix42]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
I thought you hated Engadget, Bruno, so why are you complaining? Besides, most of these live blogs (like GDGT, which is where I'm following) let you reverse the order. I agree that I prefer to have it add to the bottom, that way I was able to go get lunch at 1pm EST and let things fill up, then read everything in order without "spoilers" (as much as there can be spoilers in this sort of thing).

The iPhone 5 looks very nice, and is clearly the benchmark of phones for the next year (though the competitors are closing the parity window). I don't give them credit for the larger screen, because they're just trying to keep from scaling existing apps. Old apps just sit in the center of the screen at the same size they always were. But hey, more screen real estate is always better.

I'm not a fan of the new Nano. The last gen was pretty darn cute, and my wife uses it to work out all the time. The new one is thinner, but it's larger. It's also going to disappoint a large number of people who wanted a better Nano watch. This one won't make for a good watch. I'm not saying that's a huge market segment, but it's something that could have been grown. They also didn't say much about added functionality in the Nano. Can it connect to your iPhone over bluetooth? Can it play music over iCloud? I'm guessing no, and that means there's little new stuff about it, and they just changed the form factor that everyone liked.

Overall it was a pretty good announcement I suppose. The phone looks nice.

The one thing the bugged me to no end: "we think this is the best ____ we've made." I hope so!
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#354802 - 12/09/2012 17:22 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Why didn't you come in here right away and mention GDGT? I would have switched over immediately. smile Engadget doesn't have a reverse feature any more and the live-blog was insanely annoying to follow with their format.

The new nano: like many other nanos before it, it's really more of a "mini" isn't it? They should have renamed it and kept the older square form factor for the new nano. As it stands, I feel like this is the best iPod mini they've ever made, but not the best iPod nano. It's too big.

In addition to a renaming, they should have added a camera to the new nano. Other changes: The white fascia looks like crap on top of the color shells. The round icons look cheap and poorly executed.

iPod Touch: should have updated the camera to 8MP and added GPS, keeping the pricing the same as the older model and eliminating the older model in the process. That pop-up button on the back and the new color lanyards? Stupid, tacky, gimmick. They would have better off going for a dedicated shutter release button for the camera app. Volume buttons should have been moved to the right side of the device (like the iPad) which could have doubled as shutter button.

I would have liked to see the new iPhone with an additional 5mm of width (maintaining ratio). That would have decreased the screen's PPI if they kept the same resolution. But IMO, it would have been a much better size than simply elongating the screen. I would have also moved the buttons on the left side to the right side of the handset. This would be the first time this has ever been done, but again, multiple benefits to be realized, including an easier time adjusting volume with one's thumb and the ability to use the buttons as a shutter for the camera app while keeping the lens in its only usable position, to the left.

I don't think I expected anything different from the announcements, but one thing I did find curiously missing was any mention of an updated airplay feature to allow direct connection of devices without an existing wifi network. This is so sorely needed it's not funny. Right now the AppleTV + iOS device combination as a presentation or portable media playback solution is severely limited or possibly completely unusable. As an example, I took my ATV traveling a little while back and while I was able to connect it to various flat panels at the hotel, there's no way I could use it at all, including the ability to stream to it from an iPad or iPod. It was impossible to join the wifi network at the hotel from the ATV, and without a network connection, the ATV doesn't do anything at all except show a built-in screen saver.


Edited by hybrid8 (12/09/2012 17:30)
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354803 - 12/09/2012 17:40 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
The white fascia looks like crap on top of the color shells. The round icons look cheap and poorly executed.

I thought the same thing. I was actually a little surprised by how bad those colored Nanos looked. They look like little Nokia phones but worse.

And I agree on the Nano/Mini thing. I really think they're going the wrong direction with the Nano. People want smaller and smaller, not a different form factor. Why would you ever watch video on that thing? More to the point: why Apple want you to just buy a Nano and watch video on it, when they can sell you a Nano AND a Touch (or iPhone).
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#354804 - 12/09/2012 18:45 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
I'm also disappointed to see that Apple have not unified the iPhone to cater to a global market with a single device. Surely that's a problem that their war-chest full of cash could solve?

I suppose they evaluated the financial benefit of such a move and producing 3 models of the phone provides less friction, even though it sucks for globe-trotting data consumers.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354805 - 12/09/2012 20:30 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
RobotCaleb
pooh-bah

Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
What's the point in having a war-chest full of cash if you're just going to spend it?

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#354806 - 12/09/2012 21:03 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: RobotCaleb]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Honestly, I'd rather them just fill a shoebox full of $100 bills and send that to me than update anything with any of their devices. wink
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354821 - 13/09/2012 11:58 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Okay, my ten cents:

- I'm going to assume that the radio boffins at Apple concluded that they couldn't afford to mash so many different antennas into one case, so they had to build three different variants on the phone. Fine. I don't understand why they couldn't build a single U.S. phone that speaks CDMA and GSM, making it easier to switch carriers, or at least take your Verizon iPhone to Europe and buy a local pre-paid SIM card.

- I'm surprised Apple didn't step up with any sort of NFC support. The Samsung Nexus S came out, what, two years ago? Apple should be there already.

- I'm intrigued that Apple has decided to keep the iPhone smaller, with a 4" screen, versus Android devices that are typically 4.5" or thereabouts. For people with smaller hands, Apple is quite attractive. (Sony's Xperia line offers a variety of screen sizes, but they're not broadly available in the U.S.)

- I'm not sure yet how I feel about the new docking connector. Boo on Apple for not natively supporting microUSB, like the rest of the damn world. On the other hand, with their own connector they solve one of my biggest gripes about microUSB -- sorting out which way is up and down, particularly in the dark when plugging my phone in before going to bed. Nice that you can plug an iPhone in either way.

- Apple has made a bunch of smart changes that will go largely unnoticed and unheralded. The new camera (sapphire lens!) sounds great. The noise canceling and such sounds clever.

- Apple took a dig at other tablet vendors, saying that web traffic volume from iPads is much higher than the market share numbers, implying that other tablets might be sitting in warehouses or sock drawers. It would be interesting to try to sort out what's really going on there. Are Android tablets identifying themselves as smartphones?

- I'm intrigued by the new nano. It's gone multitouch with a bigger screen. It speaks Bluetooth A2DP. So who's the target market? People driving recent model cars with A2DP, and who know how to set it up and get it working, are likely also to own smartphones and want to use those instead (i.e., I'd rather pair my phone with my car, so I can receive calls as well). Maybe they're targeting the yuppie who wants to work out with the lightest possible device and cordless A2DP headphones? That's a pretty small demographic. They could be targeting kids, but if my 7 year old daughter is any example, she cares far less about music and far more about games. She has now taken over my older Android phone as a gaming device, and Apple offers the iPod Touch for her demographic.

- Apple's new headphones ... I just don't know. Maybe they're great. They look weird.

- Apple's new maps and such: are they allowing Google to write its own apps for the iPhone? Is it in Google's interest to port its great Android apps to the iPhone?

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#354822 - 13/09/2012 12:23 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: DWallach]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5916
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: DWallach

- Apple's new maps and such: are they allowing Google to write its own apps for the iPhone? Is it in Google's interest to port its great Android apps to the iPhone?

Only time will tell on that one. But even if Google do release an excellent app, that doesn't solve the problems of the builtin apps and other third party apps (unless they also change their licencing so people can use their tiles in a native app control in third party apps).

Googles maps do display sponsors pins, so maybe that will make it worthwhile for them ?
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#354824 - 13/09/2012 12:35 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: andy]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
re: Sapphire... Isn't it only the lens cover using sapphire glass? The bit of glass that's attached to the case and not the lens elements themselves.

Apple is banking against NFC, at least in the short term. Personally, I don't know what, if anything I'd do with it if it were available in an iPhone. Maybe re-purpose it for some of the stuff that others are doing, like pairing devices.

Micro USB - glad it's not there. USB connectors, although far from the worst connectors made is far from ideal. Micro even more so. I'd like to see some of these other connectors go away and transition to something more similar to Apple's new connector. On a side-note, the connector which I still use, which I think is one of the worst ever created, comes from none-other than Sony. Toslink optical connector. Wow, what a useless POS in every conceivable way. Why on earth would anyone key an OPTICAL connector? And then make the key so subtle that it's nearly impossible to see with your eyes unless you're holding the connector right up to your face.

Also missing from the lightning announcement is WHY it's called lightning. Does it communicate at USB3 and/or Thunderbolt-like speeds? Will they have cables that connect to Thunderbolt?
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354825 - 13/09/2012 12:38 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Here's why everything we're talking about doesn't matter much in the end:

http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/13/what-does-the-general-public-think-of-the-iphone-5-update/
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354826 - 13/09/2012 16:01 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Yeah, I understand why they didn't go into details like specs and stuff for lightning and the Nano, but they really should have released that stuff as information elsewhere. The vast majority of the phone-buying public doesn't care what the transfer rate of the new connector is, but us geeks want to know.

BTW, I totally agree with Dan on the lightning thing. I wish they'd gone with micro USB, but I do like the reversible connector. I just think they didn't do enough to convince the public as to WHY they changed the connector. Like you asked, Bruno, what does it give us? I also assume they won't be licensing the connector to other companies, or making it a standard of any sort.

Regarding NFC: I'm not going to give them a hard time about this. Frankly, after seeing how Pay By Square works, I think NFC should be leap-frogged...
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#354828 - 13/09/2012 16:06 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Here's the most basic issue with NFC for payment: I have three or four credit cards. I have an iTunes account which is linked to one card, a PayPal account linked to one card, etc. Who handles NFC payments? Where does the money come from? Who's making more commission from this?
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354829 - 13/09/2012 16:14 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
In Google Wallet, you can have multiple credit cards in your "wallet" and select which one you want to use for a payment.

The real problem with present-day NFC payment protocols is that they're really, really dumb from a security perspective -- sending your credit card number in cleartext over the air. In the future, they could implement something much better of course, but right now... dumb.

I suspect that Apple has stayed out of it because everybody wants a cut. The carriers want one system. A consortium of major retailers want another system. Google's doing their thing. Etc. It's a giant mess, with everybody angling to own a small percentage of overhead on a giant flow of cash.

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#354835 - 13/09/2012 19:51 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Having watched the keynote, I'm curious to see the iPhone 5 in person. I however at this point don't see myself upgrading. Even prior to any rumors or announcements, I wanted to make the 4S my first two year smartphone.

The taller screen could be handy, but it's going to take some time for all the apps to be updated to support it. If developers were good, their app already supports flexible height due to the in call status bar, leading to a trivial change for the 5. No real rush for me to toss out the 4S due to this. Also with the upcoming trip, I'd need a new mount for the motorcycle.

Camera changes look good, and if the low light performance is even better, that would be a potential reason. Overall I'm happy though with the 4S camera, and it's gaining the new panorama feature.

Lightning port, eh. It's not something that I'm upset about being changed, as I only have one dock I use that would be impacted. Everything else has a USB port for providing power, and a simple cable swap would take care of charging in those situations. The Apple Store entry for the Lightning to USB cable seems to indicate USB 2 still.

The multiple versions is a bit weird, I wonder if they all use the same cellular modem, and just a different transceiver. Or if it's the same for both of those, and just antenna changes. I never did find a good clarification on the differences between the AT&T and Verizon iPads where a similar split exists. Apple still sources these parts completely from partners, so I don't see how throwing money at the problem would help.

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#354837 - 13/09/2012 19:58 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: drakino]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Throwing money at: Get a partner and make something custom. wink
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#354845 - 13/09/2012 23:03 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: hybrid8]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
Originally Posted By: hybrid8
re: Sapphire... Isn't it only the lens cover using sapphire glass? The bit of glass that's attached to the case and not the lens elements themselves.


That's good. The advantage of sapphire its hardness, not its optical properties; it's used for scratch resistance. Optical glass is better for the refractive elements. Leica lenses, the best in the world, are glass (uncompromised optical quality). The crystal on my Submariner watch is sapphire (uncompromised durability).

Jim

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#354854 - 14/09/2012 07:41 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
adavidw
addict

Registered: 10/11/2000
Posts: 497
Loc: Utah, USA
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I also assume they won't be licensing the connector to other companies, or making it a standard of any sort.


Apple licensed the previous 30 pin connector to seemingly one million different companies through the "Made for iPod" program. I can't imagine that Apple wouldn't license this connector the same way. The "Made for iPod" website has already been updated to show the Lightning connector: https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/.

In addition to the companies using the connector through the "Made for iPod" program, countless other companies used the connector through the "Knocked Off in China" program. I can't imagine that that would change with this new connector either.

As far as standards go, the 30 pin connector was very much a standard. Not the kind that's submitted to a standards body for ratification, but a market-determined one, adopted by shedloads of companies, just driven by the sheer number of devices in use. Sure, it's not the same thing you might think of in terms of interoperability, since no one else used it as the connector on their music players or phones (because that would be legal suicide). But it's still very much a standard.

Walking around into people's homes or cars, I've seen lot's of micro-USB chargers now that that's been standardized. But, I've seen way more Apple 30 pin cables just lying around out there in the real world. If I were out at someone's house and my battery were dying, I'd have a greater chance of finding a cable capable of charging my iPhone than I would of finding a micro-USB cable. That's definitely a standard.

So, given time, Apple will sell hundreds of millions of iPhones/iPods/iPads with the new Lightning connector. Whether Apple takes any steps toward making this a formal standard (they won't), or licenses it to another phone manager (they won't), it will still definitely be a standard.
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#354859 - 14/09/2012 10:38 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: adavidw]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12338
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: adavidw
As far as standards go, the 30 pin connector was very much a standard. Not the kind that's submitted to a standards body for ratification, but a market-determined one, adopted by shedloads of companies, just driven by the sheer number of devices in use. Sure, it's not the same thing you might think of in terms of interoperability, since no one else used it as the connector on their music players or phones (because that would be legal suicide). But it's still very much a standard.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but semantics don't make up for the fact that when my wife and I go on a trip, I have to bring two different cables for our two different phones. One of these cables is a real standard, the other is your de facto standard.
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Matt

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#354864 - 14/09/2012 11:42 Re: iPhone 5 (and iOS 6) [Re: Dignan]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Sounds like you need a micro USB to Lightning adapter. Lucky for you they will be available. wink Of course that means you'll only charge one phone at a time. I'd rather take two cables myself. This already happens anyway, it's just that usually it's 2 or 3 Apple cables.

Micro USB is so uncommon and impractical, difficult to plug in, barely anything uses it. Most USB devices use other "standard" USB connectors. Don't get me started on this, USB connectors are such a bad joke.

You can't forget that the port on the bottom of the iPhone will do a lot more than just charge or provide USB communication. Already announced are HDMI and VGA adapters.

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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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