#8245 - 22/05/2000 13:37
OT: AutoPC?
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Hi, Anyone got any thoughts on the AutoPC ( http://www.autopc.com)? I like the colour display, but I don't see MP3 support yet, in fact it looks like a nice technology demo, but not a lot else. thoughts? Cheers, Paul. Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
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Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#8246 - 22/05/2000 13:39
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Oh and I forgot, I don't like it 'cos it runs WinCE (who thought of that acronym anyway?
Paul.
Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#8247 - 22/05/2000 13:53
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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(Quick aside: This wouldn't be "off topic" if you'd started the thread in the "ICE" Forum on the BBS. But we won't hold that against you.) I'd heard that the AutoPC was planning on implementing MP3 support in a later model, but that the current model didn't have the CPU horespower to pull off an MP3 player. Tony Fabris ( http://www.jps.net/tfabris) Empeg #144
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#8248 - 22/05/2000 13:55
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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member
Registered: 24/06/1999
Posts: 118
Loc: Chile
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We discussed the Autopc some months ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Altman said the Autopc's cpu isn't capable of mp3 decompression. So, end of discussion. It's crap. No developer will be able to overcome such shortcoming
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[orange] Reggie [/orange] - 030102316 - First EMPEG in Latin America (right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)
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#8249 - 22/05/2000 14:15
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I did a web search and there are third party MP3 players for all the Auto PCs. They will play back MP3s, but will have skipping and artifacting, and it plays back audio at 22khz. So it's about half cd quality. Also, it's limited by the memory of the player.
Calvin
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#8250 - 22/05/2000 14:17
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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AutoPC is in all the technology and stereo stores over here. It's actually a very alluring technology, but not many people are buying it due to high cost ($1200 to $1500 with navigation). The nice thing is it does integrate so many technologies together, cellular, gps, navigation, music... and it does run Wince, and that has a well known development interface and api so all in all, it's a hot piece of technology.
In practice though, the thing is a little hard to deal with.
Calvin
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#8251 - 22/05/2000 14:22
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Interesting. I investigated the MP3 capability of the AutoPC a few months ago and came up with diddly squat. Folks have moved fast on it. Guess I'll look again...
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Tony Fabris
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#8252 - 22/05/2000 14:35
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Nope, still didn't find anything. Do you have a link showing specific info on the software?
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Tony Fabris
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#8253 - 22/05/2000 15:27
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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Nice name tag Tony
Things were slow at work?
____________________________
Murray
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--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#8254 - 22/05/2000 19:44
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: Reggie]
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enthusiast
Registered: 15/06/1999
Posts: 259
Loc: Lincoln, NE
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I agree that its not all great, but I heard the next model will have a faster processor allowing mp3 playback. Although it would most likely use flash memory so it would be like a rio in the dash. In that case you could store a cd on $40 of flash ram. What a bargin  -Waiting to replace the hole in my truck with a Mark2
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Brian -See my empeg <a href="www.hulkster.net/empeg" target="_blank">here</a>-
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#8255 - 23/05/2000 11:06
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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(All, Apologies, brain not switched into [on] mode yet.)
The website mentions a mark 2 which may support MP3, but no sign of it yet.
Has anyone seen one in reality, or only on Powerpoint/HTML?
Cheers,
Paul
Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#8256 - 23/05/2000 11:08
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: eternalsun]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Calvin,
Thanks for the repsonse.
> In practice though, the thing is a little hard to deal with.
Could you explain what you mean by this? Have you played with one/seen one - is the install difficult/full of technical foibles?
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#8257 - 23/05/2000 11:21
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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I saw a Mk2 at CES, though it was showing a navigation demo. At least year's MP3 summit there was a mk2 as a huge sandwich of boards covered in fans which was supposedly a Mk2 prototype. Imagine a full x86 PC and you're pretty close.
The Mk1 looked like a nightmare to install: it comes as a head unit (do not obstruct fan, according to the docs), a tuner/amp module (inside the dash somewhere), a battery backup pack (9.6v nicad pack), a power line filter, etc. Definitely more bits than an empeg mk1, let alone a mk2 ;)
Have a look at the crutchfield listing for it, and pick the "what's in the box" option...
Hugo
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#8258 - 23/05/2000 16:21
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Yeah I played with one.
I like the color display a lot. The remote control it comes with is bigger than the remote for my home entertainment system. It has a little joystick on it, and really, to use the GPS requires another passenger. The voice recognition is pretty cool, the voice can get irritating. It does cost $1300 to $1500. I only used it in the store, and not in an actual car. So perhaps what I find irritating are just points that smooth over with use.
Calvin
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#8259 - 23/05/2000 18:14
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: altman]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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You should see the items in box if you buy it with GPS!! you have to hook up all the dozens of GPS bits and pieces as well!
Calvin
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#8260 - 23/05/2000 21:10
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Yep,
http://www.mobilevisionssoftware.com/links.htm
Calvin
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#8261 - 23/05/2000 21:49
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: eternalsun]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hmmm. I followed one of those links to a AutoPC software review site. It listed two pieces of vaporware, and one real piece of software which couldn't play CD-quality- it only worked in mono.
What I find most surprising about this whole thing is that products such as the Empeg and the Rio were announced or available before the AutoPC hit the market. When I first saw the AutoPC in the Crutchfield catalog, the very first thing which sprang to mind was that its CD-ROM drive would make it an ideal car MP3 player. So why didn't Clarion fit this thing with a processor powerful enough to handle the job? It's not like decent CPU's are expensive or anything.
It just seems funny that they'd launch a product intended to be an in-car computer, then cripple it with limited computing ability. Terribly shortsighted, if you ask me.
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Tony Fabris
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#8262 - 24/05/2000 01:46
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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addict
Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
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Tony Fabris wrote:
It just seems funny that they'd launch a product intended to be an in-car computer, then cripple it with limited computing ability. Terribly shortsighted, if you ask me.
Yes, but most car audio customers wouldn't know a PC from a cheesegrater. Maybe they would, but Clarion aren't going to let a silly thing like terminology or capability stand between them and extracting all the money they can from the customer.
Clarion's not above jumping on a bandwagon, it seems.
<font face="lucida console">Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.</font>
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550
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#8263 - 24/05/2000 03:27
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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The Auto PC was developed as a proof of concept - it was developed months (years?) before they started to sell them in any significant quantity. I heard that Clarion didn't intend to break even on the project, but they seem to be selling quite a lot of them now.
It's a shame that, as you say, the product is so under powered.
Rob
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#8264 - 24/05/2000 06:52
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: rob]
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veteran
Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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It's a shame that, as you say, the product is so under powered.
...So when can we expect to see the quad-P3 version of the empeg? You know - for the mind-reader-playlist-editor project that i'm working on - that's a project I started working on but put on stand-by because of lack of power... ...proud to STILL (sigh) have one of the first Mark I units Edited by dionysus on 24/5/00 02:54 PM.
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#8265 - 24/05/2000 07:49
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: PaulWay]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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(*cough*) And linux, mp3 and ARM processors aren't bandwagons? Paul. Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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#8266 - 24/05/2000 08:59
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: PaulWay]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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In reply to:
Yes, but most car audio customers wouldn't know a PC from a cheesegrater. Maybe they would, but Clarion aren't going to let a silly thing like terminology or capability stand between them and extracting all the money they can from the customer. Clarion's not above jumping on a bandwagon, it seems.
This just reinforces how I feel about empeg. Sure the empeg guys want to make money off the empeg car, but at least they aren't trying to market a crappy product for the purpose of sucking in money (or perhaps maybe it's the "first to market" strategy, which almost always hurts the customer IMO).
How can you trust companies like Clarion when they market a piece of [censored] like the AutoPC? It doesn't appear that they give a crap about their customers. Empeg may be "first to market" so to speak but, from what I've read, at least it's not a piece of [censored]. Rather, it appears to be very well designed with the consumer interest in mind (instead of just the companies revenue).
I suppose since I've never owned a Clarion before, my opinions are probably far from accurate. But if it is true that this AutoPC is an expensive gadget made out of crappy parts, I think I've just lost a whole lot of repect for Clarion.
And then, or course, I'm very biased towards the empeg anyway  and I don't even own one yet. Oh well.
Kureg
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#8267 - 24/05/2000 09:11
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: Kureg]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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I read a few other posts, and I guess I should say that the AutoPC probably does some things very well, considering the "first to market" kind of thing. Since playing MP3s was probably never one of its original design goals, and assuming the actual implementations of design goals was done well, then the AutoPC probably isn't as bad as I made it out to appear. I guess it would be just disappointing to some people to know that even though it does do some fancy technologies it is underpowered to do technologies of the future. Perhaps a part of planned obsolesence? I think Rob had said in another post that the AutoPC was meant to be more of an experiment... so if it does well what it was designed to do and it sold more than they expected to sell, it can't be all that bad. I guess there is always any number of perspectives that you can see it from. I'll still take the empeg any day, but who's to say that some other company out there doesn't create a 10x powerful product in the next year or two and then point back at the empeg and say, "I can't believe they could make an underpowered product like that".... nah, it'll never happen . I just can't wait to spend my money on an empeg Mark II!  Kureg
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#8268 - 24/05/2000 12:18
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: tfabris]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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AutoPC was announced and available much earlier than everyone else actually.
They were first on the market.
Calvin
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#8269 - 24/05/2000 12:27
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: Kureg]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Don't knock Clarion, they've got some real good stuff.
How in the world did you come to the conclusion that AutoPC is made of crap parts? I think compared to 99.9% of all the car stereos available, AutoPC beats them hands down. It is a $1300 to $1500 item after all. AutoPC is a different sort of product than the empeg. The empeg is going to be sold and targetted as a music player, the AutoPC is being sold as a car-technology integrator. It does music too, as well as other things, like GPS navigation, integrated cellular, e-mail, and other computer like things. The empeg does not do that (yet). Does that mean the empeg is made of crap parts?
Calvin
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#8270 - 24/05/2000 13:36
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: eternalsun]
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member
Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
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Yeah, if you read my other post... I freely admitted that the AutoPC is probably very good at what it was designed to do, just that it wasn't designed to do MP3. I also admitted that a year or two down the road, some schmoe might be saying the same thing about empeg. It's all about how you look at it. I've actually seen quite a bit of Clarion stuff, and other than that it's expensive, it's alway been really good stuff. I just think the AutoPC, supposedly being a computer, isn't really a "good" computer. It does what it was designed to do probably very well, but I don't think it was designed to be a general purpose computer either. And you're right... neither is the empeg. But the empeg is more powerful . Kureg
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#8271 - 24/05/2000 14:01
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: phaigh]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Since Hugo, Patrick and myself have been developing for ARM processors since 1988 (oh my god I feel old) I don't think anyone could accuse us of bandwagon jumping :-)
Rob
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#8272 - 24/05/2000 18:34
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: Kureg]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Actually the AutoPC is fully a WinCE computer. You can install any number of wince applications in it, and what's more, it can chat with other Wince devices like PDAs, etc.
empeg IS designed as a general purpose computer. that's why it runs linux! it's just it will not be positioned as one! that's the distinction between the empeg and the autopc.
Calvin
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#8273 - 24/05/2000 23:23
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
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Actually it was 87 Rob! (I got my A310 in November 87).
*AND* I used to run Linux 0.98.
Hugo
(licking road clean w'tongue)
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#8274 - 24/05/2000 23:40
Re: OT: AutoPC?
[Re: altman]
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addict
Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
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Ok, ok, so you guys are old^Hexperienced. . There is however a general market fervour about the subjects MP3 & Linux. Just take a look at linuxcare, VA Systems, etc for loads of insane IPO and floatations on the back of 'trendy' technologies. In part, I think that this is what has caused the rise (and fall) of some of the technology indicies (NASDAQ is an obvious example - and TECHMARK in Europe). I guess ARM is less prone to this. Don't get me wrong - these are still great technologies and I've been contributing to the linux community since kernel 1.12.....! (I'm also an author to the linuxdoc project.). Anyway, this is getting way of mark! Cheers, Paul. Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357
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