Read about it here.

So when do the class action law suits begin? And who actually paid for this CD?

Yeah, we've been talking about this one (and related copy protection issues) in other threads. Some good information about the copy protection schemes can be found in Andy McFadden's CDR FAQ.

I'm not sure I buy the "must be sent in for repair" bit. You know most Mac users, if the CD won't eject by dragging it onto the trash can, they think it's broken. I'm sure that there's ways for the end-user to get a CD out of there as long as they're not mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers.

And I also don't buy that it really damages the firmware.

Although I think it's cool that (according to the article) the Episode II soundtrack is protected. One of the users on this BBS mailed me a protected CD from Europe recently, because I wanted to mess with cracking it just to see if I could (which I did successfully by the way), and I've been itching to try my hand at some others.

Knuckle draggers... I love that term.

It seems that most Celine Dion fans aren't the ones most likely to be bothering to rip to mp3 anyway... odd.

I hope Phillips is successful in enforceing their standards to use the CD logo...

(sorry for the repost btw - I usually skip some of the copy protections threads - they turn into flame wars sometimes..)

I would think this is a good place to put such threads. I don't see how this is really on-topic for the empeg forum. Thanks for posting it. It made me mad, but not because of anything you did

I think that the main "General" forum is a perfectly good place to discuss MP3 technology, including ripping and copy protection. But OffTopic is also appropriate. Whatever blows your hair back.

Celine Dion kills my ears too.

The problem is that most of those protected disks also don't play (or don't play correctly) on a regular audio-cd player!
I can't actually tell you what goes through you head If you've bought a CD only to find out you can't play it, but it goes something like this : huh? Damn! [censored]! G*dda@#|!!^ !!!! Bastards!!! (or something to that effect! )

I couldn't get that page to load. Episode II of what is copy protected?

Does this mean i will neve be able to a celion dion mp3s on my empeg




THANK GOD

The problem is that most of those protected disks also don't play (or don't play correctly) on a regular audio-cd player!

True, but only for SOME audio-CD players.

They're trying different schemes in an attempt to find the magic bullet: The scheme that makes the CD play in the most consumer CD players as possible, while still preventing the computers from easily copying it.

The one that I saw did a pretty darn good job of it. The tracks appeared to be data tracks to the ripping software, so it basically said "hey, this is a data CD, I have nothing to do." Whereas an audio CD player just tried to play whatever it could, and worked without a problem. Very clever, guys, too bad you didn't count on certain CD copier programs which rip raw data and subcode channels and write convenient cue sheets for you.

Star Wars

Episode II of what is copy protected?

According to that Macintosh article linked at the top of this page, the soundtrack to Star Wars Episode II Attack of the Clones is a copy-protected audio CD. I look forward to ripping it and putting it on my player.

I can definitely say that Episode II isn't protected. We've already ripped it into our CD inventory, and a co-worker ripped it with the jukebox.

Aw, darn!

Too bad the article wasn't accurate in that respect.

Like Andy says, there are a lot of cases of people assuming a CD is protected when they're simply having trouble ripping it because it was scratched or badly pressed.

Yeah I've had it on my player for weeks also with no problem. I never could get The Fast And The Furious broken down with your utility though, I just left it as one long track on my player.

Sometimes they are protected in certain regions too... It seems that more are popping up in the UK?

http://uk.eurorights.org/issues/cd/bad/

We haven't run into a CD yet that we couldn't rip. And I'm pretty sure we're up past 10,000 now.

Saw a nice program from germany yesterday, Computer Club, where they demo'ed how to defeat one of the various schemes - garbled data track outside the music track(s). On the demo disc (can't remember what it was) this track was rather obvious.

The quick way was to attach a piece of non-transparent tape or a piece from a Post-It note tangentially on the outside of the CD, covering part of the data track (a segment of the circle). For more secure (less imbalance and no risk of it going astray inside the drive) or more permanent, yet removable, application, a water soluble black marker was recommended.

Article (in german) here. babelfish translation is so-so...

They also noted that in a few months they might not have been able to discuss this, as germany is considering new laws...

/Michael

"Episode II of what," thats funny, at least to a Star Wars fan.

Just thought I'd note because it was asked, there is a writeup on this at Apple's Site which also describes how to eject the CD (just in case.)

Ralyon

Yeah, like I said. I didn't buy the "send in for repair" and "damages firmware" stories. Didn't make sense.

"Hey, what are those dragging marks on the ground next to your workstation, Bob?"

LOL!

Yeah, like I said. I didn't buy the "send in for repair"

If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.

In other words, some systems may not eject the disk, and not offer a user accessable manual eject hole. Apple is not responsible for using these shiny discs in a Mac.

If anyone does have one of these discs, and a CD logo appears anywhere on it, I'd love to get a copy to then stick in my G4 Cube to see what is happening. And by what I understand, Yes, some versions of Star Wars Episode II are copy protected. But not all of them.

I still don't buy that sending in for repair is a requirement in these cases.

Unless apple was stupid enough not to include the paperclip-eject-hole on some versions of the Mac. In which case, I take back anything good I ever said about Apple.

Unless apple was stupid enough not to include the paperclip-eject-hole on some versions of the Mac. In which case, I take back anything good I ever said about Apple.

From the Apple page linked above:

Attempt to locate the manual eject hole on the optical drive. The hold is sized for a paper clip and is located on the insertion side of the device. Some computers, such as the iMac (Flat Panel), Power Mac G4 Cube, and certain models of Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver or later), may not have a user-accessible eject hole.

Looks like a retraction is on the way...

/Michael

In reply to:

---

I hope Phillips is successful in enforceing their standards to use the CD logo...

---

So do you think we'll ever see another section in the music store?
Tapes, LP's, CD's, "Shiny Circular Discs That Dont Work Very Well"
It just aint gonna happen

You have got to be kidding me. No eject hole? That's brain-damaged.

Okay, then I can see how someone who doesn't own a screwdriver would need to send the computer to a repair shop. What were they thinking?

It's all about form over function for those barefoot bearded slackjaws up at Apple, isn't it?

Some companies have already stopped putting the CD logo on them. Phillips owns the rights to it and they are not happy with what these companies are doing. But, in my mind, if they stop putting the CD logo on them, Phillips should sue for the being TOO similar to CD in that they are using the technology without a license (and inorder to get a license, they'd have to adhere to Phillips standards - ie. no copy protection.)

paul dreams

" a section entirly devoted to celion dion as well as all the boy bands please make it happen "

on a more serious thought what is stop you getting a cd player with a digital out and ripping it that way. If it works in the cd player that is.

Or should it be shiny plastic thing player

And incidentally, I think that if any class-action lawsuits are started, they should be directed at Apple for building an arguably defective computer without an eject button.

on a more serious thought what is stop you getting a cd player with a digital out and ripping it that way. If it works in the cd player that is.

This works as a way to get around some of the protection schemes, true. But some of the schemes can even mess up the digital out. I can't explain the details because I don't understand them. Andy's CDR FAQ explains them (but when I linked his site earlier today it seemed to be down, dunno what its status is).

And incidentally, I think that if any class-action lawsuits are started, they should be directed at Apple for building an arguably defective computer without an eject button.

Why? Read that tech article and count how many more ways Macs have to force a CD to eject over a PC.

Warranties on slot load CD Roms don't cover inserting non-standard shaped discs. I can definitly understand Apples position, if it's not a CD, it's not for a CD drive.

The only time I have had a use for a manual eject anyhow is leaving a disc in the drive when swapping it out.

And if one of these discs did get stuck in my Mac, I'd ensure the service charges were paid for by either the store if it was sold in the CD section, or by the studio who released the disc if it had any sign of a CD logo.

> You have got to be kidding me. No eject hole? That's brain-damaged.

The LCD iMac does have a manual eject button on the drive. It's just not 'user accessible' because you need to pull down the flap on the front of the unit.

I'd guess the G4 towers are the same. The cube probably involves turning the unit upside down and pulling out the core.

The cube probably involves turning the unit upside down and pulling out the core.

But if none of the other tricks work, it's probably stuck and will need service, since the cube is a slot load drive, and poking the eject button just does the same think as using some of the other eject tricks.

Hey, speaking of Wacky Mac stuff, any of you guys checked out the new Xserve?

I wonder if it has an emergency eject hole for the CD ROM drive...

> Hey, speaking of Wacky Mac stuff, any of you guys checked out the new Xserve?
Of course. What kind of Apple-devotee do you think I am? :P

> I wonder if it has an emergency eject hole for the CD ROM drive...
It does indeed. And I'm sure someone spent hours agonising over the placement for optimum visual pleasure.