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#9543 - 18/06/2000 23:37 PaulWay Aleph One mix released
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
People of earth, your attention please...

Due to a sudden bout of inspiration, I am happy to announce the next PaulWay mix, called Aleph One. This trance / techno mix is all focussed around 138-142 BPM, and it's 71 minutes long so that those of us without empegs (e.g. me!) can play it while we wait for that wonderful announcement to turn up...

I'm going to trial posting the URL here, and see if that overloads Dionysius' server (he's kindy lending his file space and high-speed connection, so please don't abuse it!).

http://mail.mse.ufl.edu/~pway/alephone.mp3

Please mail me at paulway@powerup.com.au for the track listing. (I should put these listings up on a web page some day...) Please also let me know if you liked it or not, and if you have any particular recommendations of songs for me to listen to :-)

Enjoy,

PaulWay

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9544 - 19/06/2000 05:53 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
Cool -- its blasting from FL to BC at just under 500KB/s. Currently half-way done with 1m30s left on the clock. Too bad I have to step out the door as soon as I click [Continue]

- -- ----- -- -
Queue # 5723
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#9545 - 19/06/2000 07:51 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Fogduck]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
damn; took me longer then that to transfer it from our older server to my laptop on a local 100mb net! (415k/sec to be exact...)The copy that's on the web is on a faster machine then the ftp server that I downloaded from though - which probably explains the speed difference... What's your net connection?

-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
_________________________
http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9546 - 19/06/2000 11:13 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: dionysus]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
> What's your net connection?

Just cable. Took almost exactly 3 minutes to pull. I was a little surprised actually. Then again, Monday morning around 2am PDT is probably the least-traffic time in the week.

- -- ----- -- -
Queue # 5723
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#9547 - 19/06/2000 13:29 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
PaulWay: Although I usually only listen to dance/trance/electronica in the car, I am already thinking about burning a copy for the car, and I am only about 7 minutes into it.

Actually...argagargarg. Its variable-rate!? I won't be able to turn that into a big .WAV file at a constant bitrate very easily, now will I?

Hey, there's some Dune references in the voice overlays...


Anyway, I like it. Its got enough variety, and no beat or theme seems to stagnate as in poorly-done minimalist works. Haven't listened too hard to analyse the patterns yet, but its cool, man.

- -- ----- -- -
Queue # 5723
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#9548 - 19/06/2000 14:13 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Fogduck]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
Actually...argagargarg. Its variable-rate!? I won't be able to turn that into a big .WAV file at a constant bitrate very easily, now will I?

In the case of Variable Bit Rate (VBR) MP3 files, they are referring to the data bitrate, i.e., the amount of compression is what varies. The sampling rate (i.e., 44.1khz, 16-bit stereo) doesn't change and should be the same as a CD.

So I think it's safe to say that you won't have any trouble converting it to .WAV and burning an audio CD of it. Relax.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9549 - 19/06/2000 15:02 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
Man, accidentally checked brain at door there.

I think I know why: Went through hell once to get a 48kHz track to convert down to 44.1kHz with minimal loss so I could burn it. The result was a lot of audible quantization artifacts (I believe) but was good enough.

Stupid me: I saw the fidgeting bit-rate and made a snap assumption based on that half-remembered issue I had with sampling-rate.

Thanks Tony.

- -- ----- -- -
Queue # 5723
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#9550 - 19/06/2000 15:55 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Fogduck]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
I think I know why: Went through hell once to get a 48kHz track to convert down to 44.1kHz with minimal loss so I could burn it. The result was a lot of audible quantization artifacts (I believe) but was good enough.

Funny, I happen to be going through something similar right now, although my problem is bit depth instead of sampling rate. I've got some 24-bit wav files that I need to convert down to 16-bit so that they'll open in my editing software. Seems like that would be a pretty simple conversion that could be done by a piece of freeware, but I'm having a hell of a time locating such a utility.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9551 - 19/06/2000 15:59 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
(you probably already have it, but) SoundForge perhaps?

- -- ----- -- -
Queue # 5723
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#9552 - 19/06/2000 16:10 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

I've got some 24-bit wav files that I need to convert down to 16-bit so that they'll open in my editing software.


I use Cool Edit Pro, and it has no trouble at all doing that sort of thing.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9553 - 19/06/2000 16:16 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Fogduck]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

Actually...argagargarg. Its variable-rate!? I won't be able to turn that into a big .WAV file at a constant bitrate very easily, now will I?


No. Send me USD$50 and I'll send you the pure WAV mixdown. :-)

In reply to:

Hey, there's some Dune references in the voice overlays...


That's Astral Projection for you :-) I've yet to get into sampling voice stuff and placing it in mixes. When I get an idea of a theme, though, I'll think about.

In reply to:

Anyway, I like it. Its got enough variety, and no beat or theme seems to stagnate as in poorly-done minimalist works. Haven't listened too hard to analyse the patterns yet, but its cool, man.


Ta. I'm still not 100% happy with it; I think it was a bit of a rush job and I forced it to work rather than letting it flow naturally. But that's me being criticial. Glad you enjoyed it.

Have fun,

Paul

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9554 - 19/06/2000 16:22 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Fogduck]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
(you probably already have it, but) SoundForge perhaps?

4.5 is complaining about an invalid bits-per-sample size on these files. I'm downloading the 4.5g update to see if that fixes it. (Hey, it just finished, I'll go try it...)

And Paul:

I use Cool Edit Pro, and it has no trouble at all doing that sort of thing.

I just have an older version of CoolEdit which refuses to be friends with these files.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys, still working on it...

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9555 - 19/06/2000 16:39 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
I'm downloading the 4.5g update to see if that fixes it.

Grrr. Nope, didn't help.

These files are multiple tracks: each a 44.1khz 24-bit mono file, each one representing an independent mixer channel. They are direct-to-hard-disk recordings of a concert some friends and I performed a few months ago. The person who did sound for us records everything that way and saves it off for future use. He sent me a burned CD of these tracks so that I could mix them down myself. I'd hate to have to trouble him to dither them down to 16-bit for me, since he was going out of his way to burn the CDs and mail them to me at all, and I assured him that my software could handle 24-bit files. But even the latest version of SoundForge says "the specified file contains an unsupported bits per sample size".

I think that the files may have been recorded with a recent version of Cakewalk, because of the presence of a ".wrk" file in the folder with the wave files. You guys wouldn't happen to know anything about that, would you?

I've got more options to explore before I give up, though. I have a friend who works for EMagic, and he's got a boatload of tools and will definitely be able to help me. I was just hoping that I wouldn't have to take up any of his time with this project.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9556 - 19/06/2000 17:11 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
But even the latest version of SoundForge says "the specified file contains an unsupported bits per sample size".

Heh, a search on DejaNews tells me that SoundForge doesn't actually open 24-bit files. They're still stuck in the 16-bit world. It'll gleefully give you the file attributes and tell you that the file is 24-bit, and it gives the option to use 24-bit precision on its plug-in calculations, but it seems as though it won't open or create a 24-bit file at all. Sigh, guess I'll have to drag the discs over to my friend's house...

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9557 - 19/06/2000 19:19 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
I use wavelab, which handles 24-bit files just fine.. I think you can download a demo from here... It's a high-end program from Steinberg, the same people that make cubase..
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
_________________________
http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9558 - 20/06/2000 08:28 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Kureg
member

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
You've got Quietman - Sleeper in there :)

Kureg



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#9559 - 21/06/2000 06:30 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Kureg]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

ou've got Quietman - Sleeper in there :)


Good heavens, do I? Why, so I do - how singularly amazing. Well spotted, that man.

Any other recommendations? Mail them to me at paulway@powerup.com.au!

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9560 - 21/06/2000 07:10 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
People,

Due to the huge response of people downloading from the link provided, Dionysius has had to move the file to another location in order to cut down on the bandwidth usage on his server. Please email me at paulway@powerup.com.au to be informed of the new URL. This way I can keep the load on his server to a reasonable average.

Thanks,

PaulWay

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9561 - 21/06/2000 07:15 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Hmm.. more then 3.8GB (4034783930 bytes to be exact) transferred in less then 24 hours; I didn't realize that many people on this board had fast connections:)
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
_________________________
http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9562 - 21/06/2000 09:14 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: dionysus]
Geoff
enthusiast

Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
I don't - it took over 7 hours to download... I just kicked it off and went to sleep. For some insane reason I trusted the pc to hang up the phone properly

Geoff
---- -------
Saving hard for a Mark 2...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB

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#9563 - 21/06/2000 14:34 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Kureg
member

Registered: 08/05/2000
Posts: 135
Hey PaulWay,

What is the name of that piece that (seemingly) kicks in at around 28:54?

Kureg



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#9564 - 21/06/2000 15:23 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Kureg]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
In reply to:

What is the name of that piece that (seemingly) kicks in at around 28:54?


...it sounds like three drives on a vinyl/massive drive (greece 2000, green record, side A)
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

_________________________
http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9565 - 23/06/2000 03:49 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Kureg]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
At 28:23 (fade-in start) you get the Matt Darey remix of 1998 by Binary Finary.

The complete track listing doesn't look very nice in this format, so mail me and I'll send you a copy.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9566 - 26/06/2000 01:20 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
xavyer
member

Registered: 19/12/1999
Posts: 117
So ...

Is there an 'AlephSpawn' on the horizon?

I'm looking forward to it; I just got back from a weekend getaway, and AlephOne is some damn nice roadtrip music! Keep up the great work!


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#9567 - 26/06/2000 06:23 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: xavyer]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

Is there an 'AlephSpawn' on the horizon?


Forgive my ignorance, but exactly what are we talking about when we say "Spawn" here?

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9568 - 26/06/2000 08:25 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
xavyer
member

Registered: 19/12/1999
Posts: 117
... another 'sudden bout of inspiration' or whatever you want to call it. Was just wondering if there was going to be any more of these mixes coming from your creativity; I really liked this one, and was hoping to hear some more.


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#9569 - 26/06/2000 23:36 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
phaigh
addict

Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
Not to be picky or anything, but how about a 'Sample' track so that we can get the flavour of the track before downloading the monster?

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
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#9570 - 27/06/2000 13:40 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: phaigh]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Good idea! I'll do a sort of three minute "Trailer" at a low Kbps (Fraunhofer gives good quality at low sample rates) for the next one.

Dunno when that's going to be, though; life is busy at the moment.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9571 - 28/06/2000 00:22 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
phaigh
addict

Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
Sounds groovy.

Let us know when you get time to let this one 'outathebag' .

Paul.

Paul Haigh, 6GB, Blue
Reg: 4120 - Serial 00254
_________________________
Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120 (mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254 (mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

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#9572 - 28/06/2000 05:57 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Dearing
addict

Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
Hey, Paul, I'm about 30 mins into Aleph1 now (during my commute), and I gotta give you props! It really does make great driving music. Do you mind if I burn a couple audio CD's of it to give to friends (it IS copyrighted :) .
Jason

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
_________________________
_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!

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#9573 - 28/06/2000 13:26 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Dearing]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
No, not at all. Obviously don't try to sell it to people or distribute it to a member of the RIAA, but other than that go right ahead. The only caveat is that people have to tell me what they like and what they'd like to hear! (This may give me some hint as to what to do the next mix with - hint hint!)

Email for preference - paulway@earthling.net.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9574 - 29/06/2000 06:21 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Dearing
addict

Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
Obviously don't try to sell it to people or distribute it to a member of the RIAA

No! Not THEM again!!!
Yeah, I'll tell 'em to pass word on to you about what they want/ how they like it.
Do you know why it wouldn't fit on a 74 min audio CD?

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
_________________________
_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!

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#9575 - 29/06/2000 14:01 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Dearing]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

Do you know why it wouldn't fit on a 74 min audio CD?


Not a clue, since I've successfully burnt a copy for my own use... However, I have heard of people having problems with DirectCD where they copied all their information to the disc and then found that in order to make it a CD-ROM they had to have an extra 13MB or so in order to write the table of contents. *shrugs* Dunno. It should be a good two minutes under the limit.

Good luck...

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9576 - 29/06/2000 14:13 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
Your CD-ROM burning/capacity questions are most likely answered here.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9577 - 29/06/2000 18:14 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Dearing]
steveb
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/2000
Posts: 55
Loc: Sugar Land, Texas, USA
Do you know why it wouldn't fit on a 74 min audio CD?

I used music match jukebox to burn a CD. It works great in the car and in my changer at work.

Steve


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#9578 - 02/07/2000 23:08 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
steveb
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/2000
Posts: 55
Loc: Sugar Land, Texas, USA
I burned a copy for the car and a copy for my changer at the office. I have listened to it all the way through about 20 times. It's really great while pounding out miles of code. I love that high BPM techno. I'm going to check for good downloads from all of the artists listed.

If you care, I usually skip the first 1m30s of the intro, but I like that "attack formation" part.

When I am working hard and have the mix playing, I don't really register the transition from one piece to the next. In fact, if you didn't include the time/artist listing, I would have no idea how many different pieces are represented in the mix. But there is one that always catches my attention, way off in the middle somewhere.

I took a quick look around on the web for "Paul Way" and "Aleph" and "AlephOne" and didn't find anything. Dose that mean that we have some kind of exclusive here? I can get a cool mix that my friends can't find real easy like? Cool!

What I did find is that Aleph is a hebrew letter. It is used in mathematics for denotation of a transfinite number set. Aleph-null represents any infinite set of objects that can be paired off with integrs. Aleph-One is real numbers, Aleph-two is the set of all functions involving real numbers. (I believe that the set of real numbers inbetween any two consecutive integers is an Aleph-null set.) But, I'm sure you were not looking for a definition, but a guess at how it relates to the mix.

Anyway, I love it and I can't wait for the next (Aleph-two?).

Steve



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#9579 - 03/07/2000 01:36 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: steveb]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

If you care, I usually skip the first 1m30s of the intro, but I like that "attack formation" part.


Fair enough; I feel that bit's a bit loose but I prefer not to start really fiddling around with songs unless I have to. The only vaguely irritating thing for me about that is that I'd love to know where the sample comes from. It sounds vaguely Battlestar Galactica.

In reply to:

Dose that mean that we have some kind of exclusive here? I can get a cool mix that my friends can't find real easy like?


Absolutely - apart from the members of this BBS, only one or two personal friends of mine know about the existence of these mixes. Since I'm borrowing the bandwidth as it is that's probably how it's going to stay. I might put the track listings up on my web page some day, when I get around to it.

Your summary of the Aleph notation is masterly. I didn't know of the Aleph Two classification, though - that gives me a working name for the next one. Since I don't think there's any classes of infinity larger (if you can get your mind around that) than Aleph Two, I'm going to have to come up with other names anyway...

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9580 - 03/07/2000 03:05 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: steveb]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
> I love that high BPM techno

That's not high BPM techno, believe me. Paul, got any German gabba techno to mix down? :-)

> Aleph-One is real numbers

Cool, I just thought he knew someone at Aleph One Ltd, a technology company in Cambridge run by some friends of Hugo!

Rob



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#9581 - 03/07/2000 13:34 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: rob]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Rob said:
In reply to:

Paul, got any German gabba techno to mix down?


No. I can't say I'm a fan of stuff faster than 180BPM. However, I am looking to put together a mix from 150 to 170BPM. Infinity One hits a peak of 174BPM at "Bring Your Mind Back Home" by Boo-Boo & Mace.

At this stage it's just a matter of getting all my BPM readings. This is turning out to be more difficult than I'd hoped - bloody stupid programs that can't write text files longer than 64KB!

If anyone has some really good automatic catalogueing programs, I'd be interested to hear of it. I use DiscPlay for my CDs, but need something that can get BPMS as well. Doing MP3 files is almost a must - I'd rather feed it my 15 music bag CD-ROMs than feed it my 200 or so CDs.

My CD listing you can find at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9791/cdindex.html

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9582 - 03/07/2000 15:28 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
This is turning out to be more difficult than I'd hoped - bloody stupid programs that can't write text files longer than 64KB!

Get Ultra Edit. Now. I'd trust my life to that program.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#9583 - 04/07/2000 00:57 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: tfabris]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Oh, I use the Programmer's File Editor, despite it being somewhat out of date. The problem seems to be that the BPM calculator program, which I licensed so I could get it to output the readings to a file, doesn't like writing a text file longer than 64KB. I don't know why, maybe that's not the case, but it seems to be provoked by the output file size.

In other news, I've put the track listings and stuff up on my web site. The PaulWay Infinity Mix track listing is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9791/infinity1.html and the Aleph One track list can be found at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9791/aleph1.html.

As usual, you need to mail me to get the actual URLs for the MP3 files themselves.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
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Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9584 - 05/07/2000 04:23 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: steveb]
Trapped
new poster

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 7
Loc: Noordwijk, The Netherlands
>I took a quick look around on the web for "Paul Way" and "Aleph" and "AlephOne"
>and didn't find anything.

Well, I found this: http://source.bungie.org/

[If you don't want to look, "Aleph One" is the name of the open source version of the Mac game "Marathon", a 3rd person shooter
in the Doom/Quake style. Wonder if they need a new theme tune.]


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#9585 - 05/07/2000 22:55 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
steveb
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/2000
Posts: 55
Loc: Sugar Land, Texas, USA
Since I don't think there's any classes of infinity larger (if you can get your mind around that) than Aleph Two

Well actually, "The set of all subsets of a given set has a larger cardinal number than the set itself, resulting in an infinite succession of cardinal numbers of increasing size." - from encyclopedia britannica

But, I agree that there is no practical meaning to anyhing beyond Aleph-two. It's just a mathematical construct.

Your summary of the Aleph notation is masterly

Thank you! (I'm just assuming that's not a play on my last name 'Bates') Now, I believe your email said "Extra points for guessing the meaning of the title." So do I get the points? And can I use them for a great deal on the next mix? Better yet, can I use them to buy my way up in line (#15066 ouch!).

Which brings me to another thought: I read a post that the Mark 2 does not come pre-loaded with any music. How about pre-loading them with AlephOne?

It sounds vaguely Battlestar Galactica.

I could be Cylons. The first part seems to say "Proceed with visual attack formation". But I can't make out the second part.

Steve



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#9586 - 06/07/2000 00:29 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
In reply to:

The problem seems to be that the BPM calculator program, which I licensed so I could get it to output the readings to a file, doesn't like writing a text file longer than 64KB. I don't know why, maybe that's not the case, but it seems to be provoked by the output file size.


...Does it allow you to print the data? If so, why not just print to a file?
-mark

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units

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http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9587 - 06/07/2000 01:18 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: steveb]
Jazzwire
addict

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 483
Loc: Guernsey
I don't think preloading something like Aleph One would be a popular move with RIAA type people... =)

However, there could be milage in some tracks from somewhere like MP3.com... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 for sale 4 gig #30, apply within)
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Jazz (List 112, Mk2 42 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

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#9588 - 06/07/2000 04:58 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Jazzwire]
bryan
journeyman

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 57
Loc: New Zealand
There is plenty of good talent out there that would probably jump at the opportunity to be shipped on the empeg.

But then if musical tastes didn't coincide I guess people might dislike the player because it ships with music that they object to, or less that top studio quality recordings.


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#9589 - 06/07/2000 05:24 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: bryan]
Jazzwire
addict

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 483
Loc: Guernsey
I agree on both counts...

The old demo tune that was shipped with the Mk1 sounded a bit muffled (Although I play it from time to time anyway =).
However, with artists on MP3.com and other places looking to establish themselves you could get a better quality mp3 than 128kps off them... =)
I know my mate would jump at the chance (quick plug) http://www.mp3.com/shapechanger

As to the styles of music, you could put a range on there, as a demo of how powerful the playlist functions are etc. The music could be selected by the music site themselves, so empeg wouldn't have to.

Anyway, I'm sure empeg will have decided if they are shipping music on it and we will find out in time what it is... =)

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 for sale 4 gig #30, apply within)
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Jazz (List 112, Mk2 42 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

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#9590 - 06/07/2000 06:03 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: steveb]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

The set of all subsets of a given set has a larger cardinal number than the set itself, resulting in an infinite succession of cardinal numbers of increasing size.


Er, well, you'd think so, but not necessarily. For instance, you'd think that a two-dimensional grid of integer coordinates would logically have to be a larger infinity than the infinity of integers. But not so. To prove this, start with the origin, Then, draw a line up to (0,1) and proceeding clockwise to (1,1), (1,0), (1,-1), (0,-1), (-1,-1), (-1,0) and (-1,1). The move one circuit outwards and so forth. Eventually you will form a line - the spiral - which includes all of those points. Thus, the two-dimensional grid is exactly the same order of infinitude (ie. same Aleph number) as the set of integers.

Enumerating infinities does strange things to the consciousness of humans.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

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Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9591 - 06/07/2000 06:09 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: Jazzwire]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
There's one problem with preloading music that I see. This means that the setup of an empeg car player takes an order of magnitude for the guys at empeg to perform, since each hard disk has to be loaded with more information.

How does it sound to Rob, though?

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
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#9592 - 06/07/2000 06:28 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
Jazzwire
addict

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 483
Loc: Guernsey
I suppose it depends on how the discs are setup in the first place... =)

If they are cloned in some way, then it wouldn't be too hard to copy some tunes in (My Assumption, probably wrong)... If the drives are setup in the empegs, then it would take a resonable amount of time to pump some tunes in, so is probably a bad idea...

Jazz
(List 112, Mk2 12 gig #40. Mk1 for sale 4 gig #30, apply within)
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Jazz (List 112, Mk2 42 gig #40. Mk1 4 gig #30. Mk3 1.6 16v)

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#9593 - 06/07/2000 11:42 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: PaulWay]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
We can preload music on the soak test rack actually - the units soak for a couple of hours before they're packaged. At this time they're ethernet connected (oh, we love ethernet for testing units :) ) and so we can put stuff on them then.

The current plan is to put a few tunes on the unit. Neil @ Cambridge car audio has some tunes which are probably going onto the next run.

As the Aleph One mix uses a lot of copyright material, I suspect that putting that on the empeg at the factory would be a recipe for disaster...

Hugo



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#9594 - 06/07/2000 14:18 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: altman]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

As the Aleph One mix uses a lot of copyright material, I suspect that putting that on the empeg at the factory would be a recipe for disaster...


May Heaven forefend!

No, I definitely wasn't suggesting the Aleph One mix. Apart from the fact that the whole thing is on that lovely borderline of copyright violation, it's one big file. The next mix I do is also going to appear as a set of individual 'tracks' as well as one complete file and a low bitrate 'trailer' preview - bowing to public demand :-).

I must do a bit of research into how much it would cost to actually license the songs I want to use... Imagine actually being able to publish my own mix CD. Hmmmmmm.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

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#9595 - 06/07/2000 14:47 Re: PaulWay Aleph One mix released [Re: altman]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
The current plan is to put a few tunes on the unit. Neil @ Cambridge car audio has some tunes which are probably going onto the next run.

Did you intend to do a mix of genres? I've got some friends who do some well-produced folk-rock stuff who have already verbally agreed to offer a couple songs for the Mk2 hard disk if you wanted. Contact me via e-mail if you're interested.

___________
Tony Fabris
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Tony Fabris

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#9596 - 07/07/2000 08:31 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: PaulWay]
cec
new poster

Registered: 07/07/2000
Posts: 3
Well, you're both right. Yes, surprisingly, the set of all ordered pairs of integers can be placed into one-to-one correspondence with the set of all integers. But that has little to do with steveb's assertion, also correct, that the members of the set of all subsets of a given set cannot be placed into one-to-one correspondence with the members of that set.

I'll use the set of all integers as a demonstration, but it works for any set. The proof is a reductio ad absurdium.

Suppose there is a one-to-one correspondence between the members of a set, and all possible subsets of that set. For example,

0 -> {}
1 -> {0}
2 -> {all integers}
3 -> {all odd integers}
etc.

Now, for some numbers, the number will also appear in the set with which it is paired. (This is true of 2 and 3 in my example above). Call these members of the set "blue". For others (0 and 1 in my example above), the number does not appear in the set with which it is paired. Call these "red".

Now, consider the set of all red numbers. What number is associated with that set? It cannot be a red number, since red numbers do not appear in the set they are associated with, and this is the set of all red numbers. And it cannot be a blue number, since blue numbers do appear in the set they are associated with, and this is the set of all red numbers! Since our initial premise--that there is a one-to-one mapping between members of a set and all subsets of that set--leads to a logical contradiction, that premise must be false.


©2000 Charles Carroll. Anyone besides Derek Balling may copy this post or parts of it freely.
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#11191, but I'm waiting for the tuner.

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#9597 - 07/07/2000 14:00 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: cec]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Hypothesis: A=B
(note: A^2 means A to the second power, or A-squared...)

A=B (By hypothesis)
A^2 = AB (Multiply both sides by A)
A^2 - B^2 = AB - B^2 (Subtract B^2 from each side)
(A+B)(A-B) = B(A-B) (Simplify by factoring)
A+B = B (Cancel the "(A-B)" factor from each side)
B+B = B (Substitution, since A=B)
2B = 1B (Addition of like terms)
2 = 1 (Cancel the "B" factor from each side)

Hmmmm.... gives a new insight into the concept of reductio ad absurdium, doesn't it.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#9598 - 07/07/2000 14:09 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: tanstaafl.]
muzza
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
stop it stop it stop it stop it

Make the bad man go away

sob

Murray 06000047
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#9599 - 07/07/2000 21:48 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: tanstaafl.]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31596
Loc: Seattle, WA
Alright, Doug. I left this for a day and gave the other BBSers a chance. No one bit. So I'm biting.

I think the error lies in a division by zero. Somewhere around the simplify-by-factoring step is the algebraic equivalent of a divide-by-zero error. My brain is too screwed up right now to analyze it in detail, so I can't write up a proof right now.

Besides, I hhhhhhate algebra.

I'm with muzza: Make the bad man stop, mommy.

___________
Tony Fabris
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Tony Fabris

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#9600 - 07/07/2000 23:52 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: cec]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

But that has little to do with steveb's assertion, also correct, that the members of the set of all subsets of a given set cannot be placed into one-to-one correspondence with the members of that set.


Actually, I wasn't denying what steveb said. I'm well aware of that proof. I was just saying that when you're counting infinities the normal common-sense rules don't apply. Hilbert's Hotel is a good example.

I love little diversions like this.

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9601 - 07/07/2000 23:58 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: tfabris]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
I can't resist biting either...

The error is actually a multiply-by-zero. Remember, A = B, so A - B = 0. At step 4, we say (A+B) * 0 = B * 0, which is pretty much true, but allows us to get away with a bit of arithmetical sleight-of-hand. In fact, in step 3, we've essentially said 0 = B*0, which is true as well, and also causes the same problems.

And no, I'm not sorry at all, especially to my brother :-)

Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
_________________________
Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9602 - 08/07/2000 00:53 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: PaulWay]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Actually, Tony was on the right track.

The cancellation operation (where we cancel out the (A-B) factors on each side is actually a division -- we are dividing each side of the equation by (A-B), and since A-B = 0, we are dividing by zero, which is, of course, an illegal operation. Multiplying by zero is allowable, and does not cause any uncomfortable results.

Ain't math fun?

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#9603 - 08/07/2000 01:49 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: tanstaafl.]
schofiel
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/06/1999
Posts: 2993
Loc: Wareham, Dorset, UK
Ain't math fun?

What's math?

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015
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One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

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#9604 - 08/07/2000 22:02 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: schofiel]
dionysus
veteran

Registered: 16/06/1999
Posts: 1222
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Hmm.. I hadn't been reading this entire thread, and just jumped in to...
math???? HOW did we get to algebra?:)

-mark
(sorry - but long threads are difficult to follow when the scroll to the second page under flat mode...)

...proud to have owned one of the first Mark I units
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http://mvgals.net - clublife, revisited.

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#9605 - 09/07/2000 00:21 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: dionysus]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
from Muzza, who can't be bothered logging in as himself

why don't you guys try posting this discussion on:
alt.nerd.obsessive/maths/geeks
and let the rest of us get on with music and empegs and stuff.


Who let you guys in anyways?

Edited by PaulWay on 9/7/00 08:24 AM.

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#9606 - 10/07/2000 22:32 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: PaulWay]
steveb
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/2000
Posts: 55
Loc: Sugar Land, Texas, USA
Who let you guys in anyways?

Wait a minute! YOU started it with your challenge to guess the meaning of your mix title. All I want to know is: Do I get those extra points or not?

Steve


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#9607 - 11/07/2000 14:03 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: steveb]
PaulWay
addict

Registered: 03/08/1999
Posts: 451
Loc: Canberra, Australia
In reply to:

Wait a minute! YOU started it with your challenge to guess the meaning of your mix title.


Er, that was my brother, using my computer. He didn't bother to log himself in. He's not that bright, so we sort of humour him... :-)

In reply to:

Do I get those extra points or not?


Absolutely. You can have (-0.796718147099018097,-0.182627315521240234). I'd suggest a magnification of about 625000 or so.

Have fun,

Paul


Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.

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Owner of Mark I empeg 00061, now better than ever - (Thanks, Rod!) - and Karma 3930000004550

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#9608 - 11/07/2000 14:16 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: PaulWay]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Hypothesis: ( -0.796718147099018097 x 625000) = K(-0.182627315521240234 x 625000)

(note: K = a non-imaginary, non-integer value <= 1)


Juuusssstt kidding....

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#9609 - 12/07/2000 11:00 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: tanstaafl.]
Dearing
addict

Registered: 22/07/1999
Posts: 453
Loc: Florida
Hypothesis: ( -0.796718147099018097 x 625000) = K(-0.182627315521240234 x 625000)

(note: K = a non-imaginary, non-integer value <= 1)


I know you were kidding, but I think it's greater than 1 (more like ~4?)


_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."
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_~= Dearing =~_
Gettin' back into it thanks to slimrio!

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#9610 - 12/07/2000 17:27 Re: PaulWay Aleph One maths diversion [Re: Dearing]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5546
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
I know you were kidding, but I think it's greater than 1 (more like ~4?)



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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