#258203 - 14/06/2005 19:54
Hi-Def TV
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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I can now see why HD is such a big deal.
I went back to my folks last weekend and while I was back I popped in to visit an old school friend who's now the manager of the local Sony Centre (a bit of a double edged sword really). We sat down and had a chat in front of a large 60 inch KDE-P61MRX1 plasma and I remarked that the picture quality was quite good. He mentioned that it was in fact an HD channel we were watching off euro1080. The picture quality was stunning, in fact it was best I've ever seen on the plasma. I've never really been a fan of plasma screens as the source material almost always lets the picture quality down. To those who wonder what all the fuss is about I recommend you go and have a look, it'll absolutely blow you away.
Sadly the plasma in question is 15k but even their 2k screens are now HD compatable too. According to my friend, all the big Sony centres will have HD displays soon so you're probably not too far away from one.
I've actually worked on half a dozen projects featuring HD systems but have either been at an early stage in the implementation or not had any HD sources to look at other than test patterns.
Looks like I'll be joining the queue when Sky starts its HD service.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#258204 - 14/06/2005 19:59
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Agreed. HD, when it's done right (less often than you might think), is just stunning. In the U.S., content from HDnet tends to be some of the best in terms of outright fidelity, particularly their sports. The mainstream networks are certainly not bad, but they seem to lack that "eye popping" quality that HDnet manages to deliver.
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#258205 - 14/06/2005 20:09
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
The mainstream networks ... seem to lack that "eye popping" quality that HDnet manages to deliver.
Thank you. I was starting to think that I was crazy. Honestly, I think that HDNet over-cranks the contrast just to make it eye-popping, but it works. I've seen some locally broadcast sports that were amazing, too.
I worry about falling into an audiophile-like trap where I might end up watching stuff I don't like just because it's so purty.
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Bitt Faulk
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#258206 - 14/06/2005 20:49
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
I worry about falling into an audiophile-like trap where I might end up watching stuff I don't like just because it's so purty.
My girlfriend's dad recently bought a large rear projection HDTV. The first time we visited after he bought it I spent half an hour watching Skiing set to music on one of those "we have HD content" channels. It can definitly happen.
The thought of a Dell 2405fp displaying a 1920x1080 video without scaling is enough to make me start reaching for the credit card.
Matthew
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#258207 - 14/06/2005 20:56
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
I think that HDNet over-cranks the contrast just to make it eye-popping, but it works
Wild guess: HDTV can support far more contrast than traditional television. However, when you're producing television that needs to go out as old-school NTSC as well as new-school HDTV, you tend to be conservative. You don't want any out-of-gamut colors in your low-def, and you want the high-def to look the same. Ergo, no eye-popping contrast. HDnet has the distinct benefit of not giving a whit about low-def. They master everything for high-def, exclusively, pushing the medium as far as they can. The results, often, speak well for themselves.
When I first got HD going, I got sucked into some Japanese video from Discovery-HD that showed various street festivals, fireworks, and so forth: total, pure, unadulterated eye candy. Who knew that my "HD-ready" set could pull off something like that? The Athens Olympics coverage, similarly, had vast eye-candy appeal, but I ended up watching the video from all the weird channels like CNBC so I could see something other than swimming and gymnastics.
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#258208 - 14/06/2005 21:00
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: DWallach]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Quote:
Japanese video from Discovery-HD that showed various street festivals, fireworks, and so forth
Yeah, I saw that one. I like the outdoorsy ones better.
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Bitt Faulk
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#258209 - 15/06/2005 00:45
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12320
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
My girlfriend's dad recently bought a large rear projection HDTV.
My father bought a rear projection LCD a little over a year ago. It's gorgeous. Sadly, the main local station that we'd love to see HD on (PBS) has decided to locate that antenna about 20 miles south of DC, where all the other antennas are. So we don't get that. But the TV and the HD Tivo are worth it to watch those Redskins away games (we're masochists, but at least it looks good when our team loses).
Too bad my favorite things to watch in HD (Dead Like Me and the beautiful Carnivale) have been cancelled.
I can't wait until all those new DirecTV HD channels come out...and exclude the HD Tivo...and they're pretty much just local channels...crap.
I know this HD thing will catch on some day!
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Matt
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#258210 - 15/06/2005 01:05
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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I want a 45" Sharp Aquos LCD TV. That's all I have to add to the thread.
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~ John
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#258211 - 15/06/2005 05:29
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
I can now see why HD is such a big deal.
Yep. As you saw from my Voom thread, I too really appreciated it. And nearly openly wept when I lost it. (Ok, thats probably an exaggeration, but I was very disappointed to see my huge Voom receiver turn the satelite icon red. It still sits in my entertainment center as a reminder, since noone has asked for it back. It also works well as an off air HDTV decoder.)
My HDTV in the front room now only sees the native resolution being used when I play a computer game on it. While I love the quality of HD, I'm not quite convinced I need to blindly fork over a ton of money to get less then what I had before. Thankfully it is summer where TV slows down, so I can wait patiently for DirecTV to stop showing animated dishes looking to the sky and transition more to a more useful informational phase about their future HD plans. It's now a waiting game to see if Dish keeps my business, or if DirecTV earns it.
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#258212 - 15/06/2005 07:48
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andym]
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addict
Registered: 05/05/2000
Posts: 623
Loc: Cambridge
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Quote:
Sadly the plasma in question is 15k but even their 2k screens are now HD compatable too.
If you buy an 'HDTV-ready' TV, make sure it has an HDCP compatible DVI input or even better, an HDMI input. I made the mistake of buying a Sony KLV-L23M1 23" LCD on the basis of the US specification which includes HDMI. The UK model has two scart sockets instead, so I ended up with a TV without any digital input - the one feature I wanted.
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#258213 - 15/06/2005 09:43
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: David]
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addict
Registered: 10/01/2001
Posts: 630
Loc: Windsor, Ontario Canada
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I just took delivery of one of these.... The picture is simply awesome and because it's being discontinued soon, I got a really great deal.
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01001010 01101111 01101000 01101110
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#258214 - 15/06/2005 13:30
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: David]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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Quote:
If you buy an 'HDTV-ready' TV, make sure it has an HDCP compatible DVI input or even better, an HDMI input. I made the mistake of buying a Sony KLV-L23M1 23" LCD on the basis of the US specification which includes HDMI. The UK model has two scart sockets instead, so I ended up with a TV without any digital input - the one feature I wanted.
...and last I heard there was still some confusion over exactly which standards Sky will be using for HD in the UK, meaning that even if you get a HDMI input you could still end up with a TV that doesn't work with Sky HD when it arrives.
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#258215 - 15/06/2005 15:39
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
could still end up with a TV that doesn't work with Sky HD when it arrives.
It's not like one can't get a DVI-D to HDMI converter. Even if they came out with a totally new connector, I'm sure a converter would be released shortly.
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~ John
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#258216 - 15/06/2005 15:50
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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If you do get a HDMI<-->DVI converter, don't get one with a male HDMI plug unless it's a cable. I got one of these converters to then plug a normal DVI connector into it, and the weight of the thing contorted the connector enough to do some interesting things, first droping green and blue, then going to a digital static screen. My low tech solution was to stack some legos below the converter, holding it in straight.
HDMI is a nice and simple connector, but it lacks screws or any heft to keep it in place well.
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#258217 - 15/06/2005 15:50
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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The problem is that HDMI includes a crypto portion in order to prevent digital copying. Conversions of that sort are likely not to work because they won't be able to pass on that crypto stuff because the crypto will have changed. Or if it does, it'll be grey-market at best. At least that's the fear based on what's happened before.
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Bitt Faulk
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#258218 - 15/06/2005 15:55
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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The video portion of HDMI is simply DVI, down to using nearly every DVI pin in some position. So the converters are no more then pin and connector rearrangers. Nothing fancy, but since they are "HDTV" equipment, not overly cheep unless you try to get away from the HDTV tax most stores apply. HDCP, the copy protection/encryption protocol works over normal DVI and HDMI plugs. Most TVs with both connectors support HDCP on both.
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#258219 - 15/06/2005 16:10
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3583
Loc: Columbus, OH
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Yeah...what Tom said.
_________________________
~ John
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#258220 - 15/06/2005 16:28
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: JBjorgen]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yeah, but if they change their minds about the encryption again, then adapters aren't going to happen. You might still have the analog HD back door, but maybe not.
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Bitt Faulk
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#258221 - 15/06/2005 19:24
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
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Quote:
The video portion of HDMI is simply DVI, down to using nearly every DVI pin in some position.
Almost, but not quite. There are minor differences that can mostly be explained by saying that HDMI is a newer standard and they're evolving things. Among other things, HDMI can transmit YCrCb data, while DVI is RGB-only. Also, HDMI implies HDCP, while DVI does not necessarily imply HDCP.
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#258222 - 16/06/2005 09:19
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andy]
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old hand
Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
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Quote:
...and last I heard there was still some confusion over exactly which standards Sky will be using for HD in the UK, meaning that even if you get a HDMI input you could still end up with a TV that doesn't work with Sky HD when it arrives.
There has been a bit more information recently:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds21697.html
Quote:
"The first generation of Sky’s High Definition STB will, as well as the HDMI output, have analogue component outputs which will work in full HD resolution," said Sky's new head of HD marketing at a press event organised by Sony and attended by Digital Spy's Alan Jay. "All Sky’s programming will be available in HD over the analogue port of this receiver."
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#258223 - 16/06/2005 13:26
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: g_attrill]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
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I had no idea that there was an analogue HD standard ?
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday
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#258224 - 16/06/2005 13:30
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yeah. It's what I'm using, as my HDTV is older than the DVI spec. It's just a 3-RCA YPbPr signalling system. The HDCP spec states that this is okay without encryption because it isn't digital and you can't make a perfect copy. Seems to me you could come damned close, though.
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Bitt Faulk
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#258225 - 16/06/2005 14:44
Re: Hi-Def TV
[Re: andy]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
I had no idea that there was an analogue HD standard ?
Considering HD pre-dates digital TV it's not surprising. I remember watching Blue Peter as a kid and them showing a royal ceremony that was recorded in HD with a CRT monitor and 4 Betas chained together to provide the recording bandwidth.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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