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#299592 - 21/06/2007 14:35 New PC woes - nVidia and Vista
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	1. Don't buy any nVidia 680i based board. They're all buggy as hell. 2. Especially don't buy the Abit IN9 32X-MAX WiFi board as the BIOS is even buggier than the chipset inside it. The main feature of the board is that you can connect two nVidia graphics cards with a full 16 PCI Express lanes for both. The problem is that there is a power connector right under where the secondary card goes and you can't use it with a standard height Molex plug. 3. Don't install the nVidia IDE driver. Stay with the standard Microsoft one. You'll get a 30 second or so hang every so often in Vista if you do. After 30 seconds its back to normal again. You'll probably see lots of "Reset to device \Device\RaidPort0 was issued" in your system event log around about the same time as well. Apparently its a known issue but no fix from nVidia. 4. Vista whilst shiny is dog slow and incompatible with basically everything you've currently got. Be prepared to upgrade or buy new versions of everything. 5. UAC is annoying as hell. Don't really want to turn it off as that breaks things because installation paths/files change.
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#299593 - 21/06/2007 14:42 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
LittleBlueThing addict Registered: 11/01/2002 Posts: 612 Loc: Reading, UK	Quote: 3. Don't install the nVidia IDE driver. Stay with the standard Microsoft one. You'll get a 30 second or so hang every so often in Vista if you do. After 30 seconds its back to normal again. You'll probably see lots of "Reset to device \Device\RaidPort0 was issued" in your system event log around about the same time as well. Apparently its a known issue but no fix from nVidia. 4. Vista whilst shiny is dog slow and incompatible with basically everything you've currently got. Be prepared to upgrade or buy new versions of everything. 5. UAC is annoying as hell. Don't really want to turn it off as that breaks things because installation paths/files change. There there, don't worry, it'll be all right. _________________________ LittleBlueThing Running twin 30's
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#299594 - 21/06/2007 15:03 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: LittleBlueThing]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: There there, don't worry, it'll be all right. If only I could
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#299595 - 21/06/2007 17:44 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Oh. Latest fun fact. Vista freaks out if you change the HD and another component at the same time and forces you to reactivate. You can do this 10 times before Microsoft say no. I hit this because when I changed the SATA controller driver back to the standard HD controller one, it renamed the HD from Seagate ST123456 SCSI Drive to Seagate ST123456 ATA Drive. Annoying...
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#299596 - 21/06/2007 19:06 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
tfabris carpal tunnel Registered: 20/12/1999 Posts: 31578 Loc: Seattle, WA	Quote: 5. UAC is annoying as hell. Don't really want to turn it off as that breaks things because installation paths/files change. More details on this please. What install paths change when you turn off UAC? _________________________ Tony Fabris
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#299597 - 21/06/2007 19:08 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
frog51 pooh-bah Registered: 09/08/2000 Posts: 2091 Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland	Seriously - what Littlebluething said. Just don't go the vista route - most of my multinational clients (who admittedly have been slow to move off NT!) are in a position now to go down the linux route over the next 4 years - and considering they are all 100,000+ seats, this is going to soooo pi$$ off M$ and make their IT teams soooo happy:-) Ahhhh - the bliss of a securable yet functional operating system (M$ can be both of these, only not at the same time!) (all of the above, my not so humble opinion - not my employer's) _________________________ Rory MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi MkII, 240Gb in Mark Lord dock MkII, 80Gb SSD in dock
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#299598 - 21/06/2007 19:18 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tfabris]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: Quote: 5. UAC is annoying as hell. Don't really want to turn it off as that breaks things because installation paths/files change. More details on this please. What install paths change when you turn off UAC? Find the bit marked File System and Registry Virtualization. Basically if a program tries to modify anything in C:\Program Files\ then Vista if UAC is active will redirect it to another per user directory. It does this for certain registry keys as well like HKLM.
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#299599 - 21/06/2007 19:19 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: frog51]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: Seriously - what Littlebluething said. Just don't go the vista route - most of my multinational clients (who admittedly have been slow to move off NT!) are in a position now to go down the linux route over the next 4 years - and considering they are all 100,000+ seats, this is going to soooo pi$$ off M$ and make their IT teams soooo happy:-) Ahhhh - the bliss of a securable yet functional operating system (M$ can be both of these, only not at the same time!) (all of the above, my not so humble opinion - not my employer's) I do run Linux. Just not as a desktop thats all.
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#299600 - 21/06/2007 19:28 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
tfabris carpal tunnel Registered: 20/12/1999 Posts: 31578 Loc: Seattle, WA	Quote: Basically if a program tries to modify anything in C:\Program Files\ then Vista if UAC is active will redirect it to another per user directory. It does this for certain registry keys as well like HKLM. And it doesn't just Do The Right Thing if you turn off UAC? _________________________ Tony Fabris
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#299601 - 21/06/2007 19:32 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tfabris]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: Quote: Basically if a program tries to modify anything in C:\Program Files\ then Vista if UAC is active will redirect it to another per user directory. It does this for certain registry keys as well like HKLM. And it doesn't just Do The Right Thing if you turn off UAC? Well. If UAC is on then your request for C:\Program Files\SuperApp\Config.ini goes to something like C:\Users\tfabris\appdata\SuperApp\config.ini. If you've installed your app with UAC on and then turn UAC off at a later point then stuff will have "vanished" until you turn UAC back on. You don't get any fine grain control about what parts of UAC you're turning off. Its everything or nothing.
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#299602 - 21/06/2007 20:11 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
drakino carpal tunnel Registered: 08/06/1999 Posts: 7868	Quote: Quote: And it doesn't just Do The Right Thing if you turn off UAC? Well. If UAC is on then your request for C:\Program Files\SuperApp\Config.ini goes to something like C:\Users\tfabris\appdata\SuperApp\config.ini. If you've installed your app with UAC on and then turn UAC off at a later point then stuff will have "vanished" until you turn UAC back on. You don't get any fine grain control about what parts of UAC you're turning off. Its everything or nothing. UAC also isn't fully redirecting things here either. Execute requests to files that somehow end up in both places prefer C:\Program Files over C:\Users. Why is this bad? Well, if a legacy program is installed, UAC detects it and prompts to elevate it. So far so good, the legacy app can install executables to C:\Program Files like it needs to. Now the installer is closed, and a user runs the app without elevated privileges. The legacy app has a self updating function, so it scans a second binary in C:\Program Files, finds that it is out of date and downloads a new one. UAC redirects the write to C:\Users. The program then tries to execute the second binary, thinking it is up to date, and executes the one in C:\Program Files, and NOT the newly downloaded one in C:\Users. So now you have an out of date executable running, even though a process downloaded a newer one.
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#299603 - 21/06/2007 20:20 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: drakino]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: Quote: Quote: And it doesn't just Do The Right Thing if you turn off UAC? Well. If UAC is on then your request for C:\Program Files\SuperApp\Config.ini goes to something like C:\Users\tfabris\appdata\SuperApp\config.ini. If you've installed your app with UAC on and then turn UAC off at a later point then stuff will have "vanished" until you turn UAC back on. You don't get any fine grain control about what parts of UAC you're turning off. Its everything or nothing. UAC also isn't fully redirecting things here either. Execute requests to files that somehow end up in both places prefer C:\Program Files over C:\Users. Why is this bad? Well, if a legacy program is installed, UAC detects it and prompts to elevate it. So far so good, the legacy app can install executables to C:\Program Files like it needs to. Now the installer is closed, and a user runs the app without elevated privileges. The legacy app has a self updating function, so it scans a second binary in C:\Program Files, finds that it is out of date and downloads a new one. UAC redirects the write to C:\Users. The program then tries to execute the second binary, thinking it is up to date, and executes the one in C:\Program Files, and NOT the newly downloaded one in C:\Users. So now you have an out of date executable running, even though a process downloaded a newer one. Ahhh okay. I was wondering what was going on with that. I've got an app that downloads patches and then executes it when its finished downloading. It wasn't working until I set it to run as admin.
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#299604 - 21/06/2007 22:19 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tman]
tfabris carpal tunnel Registered: 20/12/1999 Posts: 31578 Loc: Seattle, WA	Quote: If you've installed your app with UAC on and then turn UAC off at a later point then stuff will have "vanished" until you turn UAC back on. What I meant was... You're sure that really occurs and have seen it happen? The act of turning off UAC doesn't just go and remap or copy all those registry entries back to where they need to be? _________________________ Tony Fabris
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#299605 - 22/06/2007 04:17 Re: New PC woes - nVidia and Vista [Re: tfabris]
tman carpal tunnel Registered: 24/12/2001 Posts: 5528	Quote: The act of turning off UAC doesn't just go and remap or copy all those registry entries back to where they need to be? Nope. How would it know what file to use? If it is only you that uses the PC then its easy. Its not so easy if there are multiple people however...
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