Darkstorm Lenses added to comparison chart

Check it out, folks:

http://www.riocar.org/lens.php

I am also working on an actual "shopping cart" page for Darkstorm which hopefully will include more photos. In the meantime, you can get his lenses by e-mailing him from the link on the Lens Compare page.

Note that this page has a LOT of images to preload, so your clicks might not work at first until it's all loaded up. I'm trying to figure out how to implement a proper "please wait" message, the one I've got there doesn't work all the time yet.

tony, those neon lens look pretty slick, do they accully have a glowing all around as it looks in the picture?

IIRC Tony posted about that a couple of days ago and said it was due to the fact that the lens material is thicker than "stock" and that the areas where the fascia goes is milled down (ie the visible parts are raised above the "background") and where the edge is, light can escape.

/Michael

so its not just the picture, thats how it accully is? amazing... i may have to invest in the red one.

Correct. Haven't you ever seen that kind of plastic that's embedded with fluorescent color, so that any cut edges practically glow when the plastic is hit with light?

That's what DarkStorm's Neon Green, Neon Red, and Orange faces look like. If you have the backlit buttons, it's particularly cool, too, because the LEDs light the fascia edges.

Here, lemme stick the neon red lens on and get a pic for you...

Ah, here we go:



I think I'll use that one on DarkStorm's shopping cart page. "Backlit buttons not included."

oh my. wow.

Just as a follow-up, that photo is not a photoshop-doctored April Fool's joke, it really looks like that. That's Brian's backlit buttons hack with Darkstorm's Neon Red faceplate. A very interesting combination.

You can't tell from the overexposure in that picture, but the pixels of the VFD actually glow a rather pretty shade of pinkish violet through that lens. Combined with the pink-orange fluorescent cut edges and the electric blue of the buttons, it's very striking, even in regular indoor light. I haven't tried this combination in the car during the day yet...

See, all of the lenses except for the clear and smoke lenses are sculpted to notch into the player's fascia. Hence the glowing edges on the Neon ones:

omg i must have that. darkstorm must be glad he gave u those faces :-P im going to order one tonite or tomorrow. thats amazing, its a lil too much. but its just neat.

Man, that's amazing. Does it really look "that cool" in real life? I'd wanted lighted buttons, but the combination there is gonna be hard to resist for too long.

Would you actualy like the way it looks on a daily basis though?

Matthew

exactly i couldnt deal with that on a daily basis, maybe with red buttons i could. or with no button hack, and just the regular buttons it would look nice as well.

Holy smoke, batman, it matches your car!

-Robin

How difficult is the LED installation? I want it.

Tony - Darkstorm - Way to go! Wow! I've been one of Darkstorm's biggest supports as far as posting pics of the smoked lens go... but I had no idea! Orders are going to start pouring in! Suuuuhweeeeet!

Can someone post a message about this on RioCar.org?

Yes, anyone can. Simply submit a news story and an admin can approve it.

It has been like 3 seconds and I don't see it yet!

yah that looks really great. One question, how come there wasn't a neon blue reverse that , neon blue with red buttons , wohoo away we go.

I also really want the led kit for the buttons i just don't know if i trust myself to do it. I wonder where one could go to have a "professional" do it for a reasonable price

exactly i couldnt deal with that on a daily basis

Well, it's very easy to swap faces. Buy a few, and swap them around regularly.


Holy smoke, batman, it matches your car!




How difficult is the LED installation? I want it.

Opinions on the subject are here.

It seems as though the biggest problems folks encountered were:

- Soldering the LEDs themselves backwards, not looking closely enough at Brian's picture which very clearly shows the directions.

- Plugging in the display board connector "off by one pin", therefore blowing the fuse on the motherboard.

But before you can even get to that stage, you need to be able to solder SMT components. Again, my opinion on that is here.

One question, how come there wasn't a neon blue

Hmm. The "light blue" panel is almost a neon blue. It's not as striking as the neon red, but it might look cool with the backlit buttons. If someone reminds me when I get home tonight, I'll try to put that together and get a picture of it.

yah , i'll remind you, thanks tony!

edit- also what is the url to the darkstorm install page, i can't seem to find it

The neon colors with backlights are nice and all....if you were into playing "lite brite" as a kid..

Based on the comparison page, the neon lenses aren't very good in anything but low light. The light blue appears to be the best. Then again, that's how it looks in the pics.

Which one has the best visibility in a high ambient light environment?

That is what I want - to be able to see the freaking screen in the day time. Frankly, that is the most disappointing aspect of the empeg, and I am a little surprised the VFD screen was used. At least in my situation, the display is inadequate quite often during the daytime. Yes, the dimmer is all the way up.

Is the controller for the VFD compatible with any other display types? I would be happier with an LCD with a backlight even if it was in just 2 color mode...

Otherwise, the empeg is a great unit for me, but I rarely look at the display during a sunny day because it is just not usable. I guess I have a bright interior..

Oh, I refuse to put any sort of visor around my empeg..

-John M

Which one has the best visibility in a high ambient light environment?

From what I can tell (and this is in the FAQ entry linked from that page, by the way), the best ones are the Empeg Green and the Darkstorm Smoke.

Ok well the pics do not show that. This might confuse or mislead a *few* readers/purchasers..

Well #1 the FAQ entry link is in fine print and I never noticed it before but it doesn't matter because it does not cover the newer lenses..

-John M

Ok well the pics do not show that.

I think they do show precisely that.

It is possible that there's a problem with your browser and you may not be getting the proper images. Those images take a while to load and the Javascript can screw up the cached images, I've seen it happen. Try clearing your cache and reloading the page.

but it doesn't matter because it does not cover the newer lenses..

Yes it does, if you read the text.

What about a source for practice components? If I was going to try this, I would like to "try" it first. Any suggestions?

how ironic. over in the rio receiver bbs, there's a recent thread about replacing the backlit LCD display panel with a compatible VFD.

ya can't please all the folks, all the time...

--dan.

What about a source for practice components? If I was going to try this, I would like to "try" it first. Any suggestions?

Got any old piece-o-crap ISA or PCI cards lying around? You can practice desoldering and resoldering the components on them.

that is EXACTLY what i am going to do, but on an old crapped out mainboard hmm maybe a pci car will have smaller components.. i will have to do it 100 times before i feel even SEMI confident about the empeg.

> I think they do show precisely that.

> It is possible that there's a problem with your browser and
> you may not be getting the proper images.

I got them fine, but on my two systems the best two screens in Ambient light in order are the Darkstorm Lt. Blue and then the Rio Green. In Direct Sun only the Darkstorm Smoke and Lt. Blue are remotely readable.

> but it doesn't matter because it does not cover the newer
> lenses..

> Yes it does, if you read the text.

The only mention of the Darkstorm lense is his smoke one but no mention of the Neon ones.. In any case, I don't see any specific writing of which is best in AMBIENT light(including the darkstorm lenses), which was my original question. I only see a general statement on readability and a mention of the colors(assumed to be factory)..

I guess any time the empeg gets criticized in this forum a few people can get pissy, and it was only a mild criticism at that..

Oh, wait, I guess I'm being pissy too..

-John M

Are those little incredibly small black rectangles on the piece-o-craps boards the same size as the resister pack (might be marked as RN4)?

As soon as I got my Darkstorm lenses, I threw the smoke one on and never looked back. I have a convertible, and while I won't say that the visibility in direct sunlight is *good*, it's perfectly usable. In indirect (ambient) sunlight, I have no complaints at all.

Alex

HEY TONY!!!
"Hmm. The "light blue" panel is almost a neon blue. It's not as striking as the neon red, but it might look cool with the backlit buttons. If someone reminds me when I get home tonight, I'll try to put that together and get a picture of it. "

i'll be waiting

i'll be waiting

The light blue only gives a slight "glow" effect on the edges. The ones that really glow are the neon red, neon green, and orange faces. Tod was over here looking at them tonight, and he had an interesting suggestion for DarkStorm: Program the CNC machine to bevel the edges at an angle instead of just cutting them vertically. I wonder if that would make even the light blue lens glow brightly around the edges?

I did get a few more pictures, but I'm going to save them for DarkStorm's web site rather than post them here. Consider the neon red picture a teaser.

ohhh.. i see how it is tony. whats the eta on darkstorms site in that case, i wanna see some of these in real action. the lens comparision is nice, but it dosnt give alot of them juctice.

I got them fine, but on my two systems the best two screens in Ambient light in order are the Darkstorm Lt. Blue and then the Rio Green. In Direct Sun only the Darkstorm Smoke and Lt. Blue are remotely readable.

I wonder if maybe your monitor's brightness is lower than mine. I can actually read text on the Rio green, Rio blue, and Smoke, in direct and ambient sunluight. True, it's not jumping out at you, but it's there. If your monitor doesn't show a lot of detail in dark areas (and I have seen monitors which have this problem), then the direct-sun pictures of the Rio Blue and Rio Green might indeed look completely black.

Part of the problem is natural variation between image exposures, monitor and video card gamma, and moment-to-moment and day-to-day differences in the lighting conditions. This is very hard to control, and it took a few days of grueling work to get the images even as they are. I'm sorry, but it's the best I could do. It's not perfectly accurate, but it gives you the basic idea.

Something else to keep in mind is that the lighting conditions are a sliding scale, and I have only photographed three extreme points along that scale. I can't possibly capture the entire range of possibility in the photos.

the lens comparision is nice, but it dosnt give alot of them juctice.

I'm only going to be doing a handful of beauty-shots for the page and relying on the more-or-less accurate lens compare photos for the bulk of the ordering page. As I said, this has already sucked up a weekend and some week evenings, and I've still got the page to put together which will take even more week evenings. You guys have no idea how hard it is to do all of this photography and image editing and make it look half way decent. I do not know what the ETA for his page is, but I hope pretty soon.

man for the chance to have a few free lenses its well worth the trouble.. heck i would even help just for a discount

The lenses are nice, but in the long run, all I ever wanted was the smoke lens, and I paid for that one.

> I wonder if maybe your monitor's brightness is lower than
> mine. I can actually read text on the Rio green, Rio blue, and

snip..

I think I figured it out - I was using the VFD from the empeg as my PC monitor...

Hmm...just thinking about this...would it be possible to make a lens out of that "one-way" mirror glass? Put the mirror on the inside, so outside light is mostly blocked (and hence doesn't wash out the VFD), and the slight dimming of outgoing light is no problem. Would probably have to use a different material for the IR sensor.

Good idea?

Alex

I've thought of this, too, and I think I brought it up before. Don't remember whether we decided if it would work or not. Anyone have the link to that thread?

I don't know exactly where the thread was, but it was pretty much just brought up and dropped (with a little discussion of thermodynamics). Someone said that the one-way mirrors used in interrogation booths required darkness on the non-reflective side, but that's obviously not the case for whatever's used for mirrored sunglasses. And no one responded to that. Maybe DarkStorm knows where he could get his hands on such material. Or maybe someone could grab an old pair of mirrored sunglasses (they're probably still in the pocket of your Members' Only jacket) and test it out by just removing the current lens and holding them up to the VFD.

Edit: Here's the thread

There is an anti-reflective coating applied by laboratories to prescription spectacle lenses/binoculars/telescopes/cameras etc. that may be beneficial here.
I don't understand how it works but the effect is very obvious and I've been thinking about this & empeg lenses for a while now but have got nowhere researching this.

This coating drastically reduces reflected glare from shiny lenses so you can better see what's behind, anyone who's bought prescription glasses has almost certainly been offered this optional extra coating for an additional £20.

You can see the effect in everyday life if you look for it; In bright light, if you observe a spectacle wearer but can't see their eyes for the reflected/mirrored light from the lenses then they probably don't have this coating.

AFAIK, the coating comes in 2 colours; Blue or green. You can see the slight colour hue if you view the lens at an angle. This doesn't tint the lens at all - it's just a coating on the surface.

It would be great if this coating is available in an aerosol or similiar but as I said, I haven't found anything yet - any offers?!

The thing is that there are two problems with the visiblilty of the empeg's display. One of them is light reflection off of the lens. It seems like what you're suggesting might help with that problem. Unfortunately, that's not the biggest problem. What is is the light that refects off of the elements of the VFD itself. What would be nice would be a material that would allow light to pass from the VFD out to our eyes, but not allow the light from the sun penetrate the lens to get to the VFD. This, supposedly, is impossible (depends on who you ask), but something like it should be possible; for instance, mirrored sunglasses do not allow (much) light to pass from the wearer's face to someone looking at him, but they do allow light to pass from outside the glasses to the wearer's eyes.

I said I would check into it, and I did. I just never posted anything :-( The biggest mirrored, polarized lens blank i can get is 80mm, which isnt big enough to cover the screen. Ill try to take a pic of one for you guys to see it on the player.

Sean

The a/r coating you are referring to has to be applied in a dust free environment and is applied by machines that are very expensive. The machines that I have seen are only made to accomodate round objects up to 85 mm or so. The lens is spun when the coating is applied (this could be done other ways on different equipment) and a series of coatings are usually involved in the process. It comes in multiple colors - blue, green, and ive seen some orange ones too. No coating lab is going to attempt to coat one of these screens :-( I would love for someone to prove me wrong though.

Sean

80mm won't cover the screen, but it might cover the vfd!

Calvin

Perhaps a polarized lense then? this would at LEAST cut out some of the glare, at a small price.

80mm won't cover the screen, but it might cover the vfd!

Pretty close -- I get 84x21mm.

tanstaafl.

I have done some researching and found some fairly digestible explanations of anti-glare coatings. I agree in principal that this won't help much with light reflected from the VFD elements though. If anyone is interested, explanations can be found here and here.

That said, I have found a supplier of an aerosol product called VISION CLEAR that looks worth trying. I have emailed them re. purchasing a can and I'll come back with any progress if anyone is interested.
I'm not that optimistic about this product's potential perfomance but even if it helps a little then I'll be happy.

The before/after picture on the Vision Clear page looks like their marketing dept. had spent too much time enhancing it, below is perhaps a less optimistic example of an anti-glare filter at work (Note. This is using a lab applied coating and nothing to do with the aerosol!)....



During my travels it became apparent [as per Terminator's post above] that the proper method involves processing in a clean lab. environment. What I can add though is that this coating is also applied to CRT's and after-market display filters so it's not a size issue necessarily and possibly there is more mileage in this.

Beaker had bought up vision clear in the past (anyone want to ship a bottle to the uk?), and it looks like a coating similar to what was applied to the stock ar empeg screens. It does a nice job but blurs the pixels a bit. The coatings you see applied to crts and display filters is different from what is applied to eyeglasses and camera lenses but could still yield good results - I have no idea who does those coatings and how though. Let me know how it goes.

Sean

Ah shucks. How cool would a mirrored faceplate display be? Oh well.

Calvin

man o man tony, am i craving some more of that empeg porn you posted on april 1st, any new updates on when the site will be done?

3 pages of replies already?!
Jesus. I've got to get to make time for the board more often.

The site is almost ready. I just needs a tweak on the order page. This is because Paypal's shipping structure won't work with the way I ship.
I'll post when it is ready though and Tony is going to link from the comparison page and put a link at the top of the BBS for me.


As far as a mirror lens. I have tried this with one of my clear lenses and mirrored auto tint. I'm reserving judgment but leaning towards not useable.
If I remember I'll try to take a picture with it installed (don't expect much I'm not a very good photog) and post it. If I don't remember you'll have to wait a while since my player is getting shipped in for service.

Hi Tony.

Oh my, I would love a green lens like that with lighted deep green buttons (so deep green that they barely glow), or a deep blue lens with blue or green buttons.

HELP, I am going to spend money I can't afford.

cu,
sven

any pictuer of the neon red lense with the red buttons?

Not unless someone else has that combo. I don't have the button hack. I wanted to trade with Brian but he apparently isn't interested in my lenses.

I saw some spray paint for glass in the crafts store the other day.
I wonder how that would look, or if it would work on the plastic. hmmm..

brian

I have clear matte spray paint and also custom made clear matte paint for the spray gun at my sign company.
Unfortunately neither of them works. They diffuse the display way too much to be readable.
That is if your talking about AR coating.