DVD Recorders- Getting Close?

I appologize for the long post. I need to post my thoughts here
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For the longest time now, I've been watching and waiting for set-top DVD recorders to become reasonably priced. More important, though, is the wait for them to find the right mix of features and the search for a unit that meets some basic requirements.

Well, it appears that we are in another stage of DVD recorders. The last stage was occupied primarily by Philips (DVD985) and Panasonic (DMR30), and who released DVD+R and DVD-R units, respectively. Both units provided basic recording functions to discs and attempted some basic DVR features as well.

Now these companies have their new sets out and are joined by a few others. It's very confusing, and I'd like other people's opinions on these units, though I'm basically going to focus on these companies still.

Basically, the new generation has hard drives. However, it doesn't appear that they do what we want yet. What is the most desired is a unit that will record a program, allow us to remove the commercials, and store the video on the disc. This would require a hard drive. However, these units appear to only use the hard drive so that larger amounts of video storage can be acheived whilst using their DVR features. This is going in the opposite direction I had hoped.

Here are a couple of the current units:

Panasonic DMRE50S - about $400-450

Philips DVDR80 and DVDR75 - about $450-550

I browsed the Panasonic's downloadable manual, and I've looked at the Philips in Best Buy. I looked at one thing: the ability to "edit" videos.

The Philips unit did just what I suspected it did: not actually edit. Their version of "editing" is to "mark scenes" in the video. Basically putting track marks at the beginning and end of pieces of video that you don't want, and when the unit plays back the video, those portions get skipped. It doesn't delete the video at all, and you still lose about 8 minutes per half hour to commercials.

The Panasonic is even worse because it appears to do the same thing but doesn't make it as straight-forward. In their long and complicated user manual, they have a chapter on editing. They basically give you intructions on how to "delete" content (divide recordings then delete), but then state that you won't gain any recording space on your disc. I'm willing to bet that this is because it works the same way as the Philips. There is a chance it could just be due to how the video files end up when several segments are removed from it (maybe that space can't be recovered), but they make it sound like the editing is not actually editing.

So, after all that, what do you folks think? I am just chomping at the bit to get a DVD recorder, but I can't seem to find one that does what I want. To summarize:

-hard drive for editing
-focus on editing and archival as opposed to lackluster DVR devices
-a realistic rewriteable format (I don't care which format you side with in the war, DVDRAM is the worst. I want to play all my discs on someone else's machine)

That's all. I don't see why this is so difficult!

This?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009KXA3/104-5127111-1067134?v=glance

Nope. That is just another in their current line of products.

Oops, now that I look at it, that is the model with the hard drive. The other does not have one. I will take a look at that model's manual.

I still can't stand that it uses DVDRAM.

*edit*
that product has no user manual online yet. I'll be interested to see if it is capable of real editing.

Something I saw elsewhere said:
1) real editing
and
2) will write DVD-Rs

Interesting. I need to find some real info on it. I'm searching.

All of Panasonic's recorders record on DVD-R's, but that's write-once. It baffles me as to why they aren't supporting DVD-RW's. I don't understand how the - format can survive with the insistance that its supporting companies use DVDRAM. I see no reason for DVDRAM at all if you can get double-sided DVD-RW discs.

I have a hard drive for editing, I can live with write once. Decide what you want, and write it.

I'm thinking more of the instances when you recorded a show one night and want to show it to a friend at their place. I don't know anyone with a DVDRAM drive. I don't have any problems archiving stuff, but I want a more realistic temporary media than some cartridge.

DVD-R media isn't that expensive anymore. Anything worth saving is worth saving forever

Fine But if that thing can't do real editing, then the whole point is moot

But if that thing can't do real editing, then the whole point is moot

Nothing yet has led me to believe it can't. Did you find new info?

No, I haven't. Since the product hasn't been out long, there seem to be primarily Japanese sites that have it on Google

However, the editorial review from that Amazon page you linked does not look good for this:

You can even perform simple non-linear video editing, such as rearranging the order of scenes, skipping over unwanted scenes, and creating custom playlists of favorite scenes on a disc

Maybe this is what you want.

This one may be worth waiting for:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=107

Because if I believed in God and I believed He designed DVR's, I think He would make a TiVo.

-Dylan

That one doesn't really say anything about editing at all. It also appears to be a year or two out of date, and Pioneer's site doesn't list that model at all. They've got this one coming out.

Oh crap! I think I accidentally glossed over that earlier! I was looking through Toshiba's site and I think I saw that but it just didn't register!

That certainly looks like I would get if I wanted to upgrade my Tivo at the same time. However, I don't see Tivo offering a way to edit out content from your recordings. Still, that is an attractive option, and I'd like a Series 2 Tivo at some point.