TV Tax

I just saw somewhere that there is a 187 per year tax on TV's in the UK??? Is that per TV?

Sean in NC

I just saw somewhere that there is a 187 per year tax on TV's in the UK??? Is that per TV?

Per household. Is that 187 in USD? It's currently GBP116 for colour (less for B&W). The money goes to the BBC (or a lot of it does), financing advertisement-free national TV and radio. There used to be a corresponding radio tax, but that was done away with some time ago.

Peter

It's supposed to be per TV, but most people just pay per household, BUT the tax pays for the ENTIRE BBC, which is the most amazing value you could imagine:

TV:
BBC1
BBC2
BBC3
BBC4
CBEEBIES
CBBC
BBCNEWS24

RADIO:
RADIO 1
RADIO 2
RADIO 3
RADIO 4
5 LIVE
BBC6
BBC7
WORLD SERVICE
+ local services all over the UK

I pay Mr Murdoch £396.00 just so I can watch around 20 games of rugby a year.

Nope, per household. As a result you get 7 TV channels and a load of radio stations all without adverts. It funds the BBC who I might add are my employers so I think it's excellent value for money, I can't stand adverts.

Have a read of this

And they were the driving force behind DAB (digital radio) in Europe, amongst a lot of other things.

they were the driving force behind DAB (digital radio) in Europe

They then proceeded to piss all over DAB cramming lots of extra stations onto their multiplex by slashing their bitrates to unacceptable levels. When they launched DAB Radio 1, 2, 3 and 4 were all broadcast at 192kbps or more (mp2). Nowadays my beloved BBC Radio 4 is down to 64kbps mono a lot of time time, so I don't use DAB

As far as I am concerned the BBC is incredibly good value, we are very lucky to have it.

P.S. the licence fee doesn't pay for the BBC Worldservice, that is paid for from the Foreign Office budget (about £200m a year).

The licence management is dealt with by TV Licensing which is separate to the BBC. If you *don't* have a licence they send vaguely threatening letters every now and then.

The attached letter was sent to our office a few weeks ago - I just retrieved it from the bin. You do not have to tell them if you don't have a TV and you do not need to let an inspector if they do not have a warrant. If they visit or call I will tell them that our rates are £60/hr + VAT!

The letters sent to private residences are quite a bit more forceful because they find it impossible to believe that some people can't live without a TV! I know of one personwho arrived home to find an inspector in their garden with their face pressed to the window. Needless to say they were ejected from the premises and told to go to court for a warrant if they wanted to have a look around!

Also, the law states that you need a licence if you own equipment capable of receiving television broadcasts and if it is ever used for that purpose. It has been ruled that a television that is not tuned to a broadcast signal and is used for other purposes (eg. prerecorded casettes or as a computer mointor) does not need a licence. Also, a TV card that is not set up to view TV broadcasts but is used as a webcam would also not require one.

Gareth

Taxes are just hidden more on American TV (if you subscribe to cable or satelite), but really give us less. Most if it probably stems from the dislike in our culture of "Goverment programs". The BBC is a great resource not only to the UK, but to the entire world, and honestly I don't believe it would exist like it does if the taxes didn't exist.

When I was at university they would do a blank mailing of everybody. What was amusing was that the cleaning cupboard would get a letter as well

They then proceeded to piss all over DAB cramming lots of extra stations onto their multiplex by slashing their bitrates to unacceptable levels. When they launched DAB Radio 1, 2, 3 and 4 were all broadcast at 192kbps or more (mp2). Nowadays my beloved BBC Radio 4 is down to 64kbps mono a lot of time time, so I don't use DAB

I love Radio 4, in fact it's the whole reason why I didn't buy an empeg car. I agree that the quality's not all that but if you want to record Radio 4 for later listening then DAB on your PC (Wavefinder or Modulartech PCI card) using dabbar (www.dabbar.co.uk) is heaven, can't do that with FM

Heh, do they still do the "TV detector vans" I've seen referenced or portrayed in certain old TV shows?

I seem to remember one featured prominently in a Dr. Who episode...

Heh, do they still do the "TV detector vans" I've seen referenced or portrayed in certain old TV shows?

Yeah but I've never seen one driving around. It's more a scare too really, though I'm sure they have a few real ones. I heard that somebody saw what appeared to be one but when the rear doors opened it was just a normal minibus. I also heard about one parked up outside a train station where they were handing out leaflets - it had a normal satelite dish on top!

They do have some real ones, and they also have little handheld detectors that let them walk right up to a flat and tell if one is being used inside. If an inspector used one of these and submitted a declaration to court it could be enough for a warrant.

An average of 40 women a year are jailed for non-payment, 398,000 households are "caught" without it and £146m is spent recovering the fees. Over 75's get the licence free which is pretty neat.

Gareth

> 40 women a year are jailed for non payment

Only women?

-brendan

To get decent TV in the U.S. you have to pay for cable so that's like 40$/month * 12 months = $480 and you still have to watch advertising. Put aside your american fear of taxes for a second and do the math and you will find the BBC and the TV tax would be a better value.

Heh, do they still do the "TV detector vans" I've seen referenced or portrayed in certain old TV shows?

It's alleged that they do, but as they have complete databases of (a) all households and (b) all TV licences, I expect they just subtract (b) from (a) and menace whoever's left over. They had a billboard campaign recently along the lines of "13 houses in Mill Road, Cambridge CB1, have no TV licence" (obviously with local streets to the various billboards round the country).

Peter

LOL

How exactly would a tv detector work anyway, we are talking about broadcast TV right? EMF leakage from the TV tube? How accurate could that be, could they know for sure it wasn't a computer monitor for instance?

EMF leakage from the TV tube?

Yep. That's how it's alleged to work. There's some complicated mumbo-jumbo (Patrick?) which means that, allegedly, they can even tell which channel you're watching.

You can detect the output of the local oscillator used in the tuner. The frequency the LO is set to depends on what channel you're watching.

The loony detector van, you mean... from the Ministry of Housinge ;-)

You can detect the output of the local oscillator used in the tuner. The frequency the LO is set to depends on what channel you're watching.

Is that the same for digital?

I would guess so. Digital terrestrial still needs an RF tuner. There is no way they can tell if you are watching satellite or cable though (unless you've got it connected via RF coax).

I hate commercials. And you guys say there are none on british television? What is the immigration policy?

Theres no commercials on the BBC channels, but theres commercials on ITV, Channel 4 and 5.

It should be noted that the quantity of commercials on those channels is far less than on US television. I attribute that to the fact that they do have to compete against channels with no commericals. I also think that this keeps the value of those commerical slots fairly high, and hence keeps the 'quality' of commercials reasonable.
The US appears to be in a viscious spiral of increasing quantities of commercials, and presumably lower commercial slot prices.

Apparently the majority of prosecutions result from inspectors knocking on doors during the times people are most likely to be watching TV - ie. when Coronation Street/Emmerdale/East Enders is on.

Ok, on the "40 women" thing - my source only mentioned them! I think the story was about discounting it for low-income households, and single mothers are usually the lowest of those.

Gareth

It should be noted that the quantity of commercials on those channels is far less than on US television

I would debate that. There are about half the number of breaks (typically one break during a 30 minute show) but the breaks are about twice as long. US breaks seem to almost always be over in two minutes where as UK breaks can easily last four. I guess this makes sense when the shows are made for US television (either imported or for export).

Rob

Actually, with the right gear you can see an image of what is being watched. A pretty poor image but, an image. Remember it takes some pretty high voltages to drive a CRT. Take the rf leakage from that, and a knowledge of television signal formats...

FWIW, primetime network TV shows usually have a runtime of about 25 minutes per half hour. Everything else has a runtime of 22 minutes per half hour.

My biggest problem with advertising in America is that it so damn effective. I have a hard time driving down the street and seeing some guy in the car next to me shoving French fries (which actually are Belgian) into his face hole at a rate only matched by competition eaters. So much of the American population is sucked into this over consuming profit driven economy that I can’t help but feel sorry for their ignorance. I don’t know where the switch was flipped in me to recognize manipulation when I see it, but it is extremely annoying to watch.

Recently there was a commercial that aired featuring that heifer Anna Nicole. Evidently her show made her enough money for liposuction and she landed a endorsement for Trim-spa. In the ad she is asked how she lost weight and she responds “It’s Trim-spa baby!” I wince every time I see it because I know that some poor sucker is sitting on his/her couch shoveling bar-b-q chips into their mouth and thinking, “you know, that’s the answer.

It seems as though there is no where for me to escape this torment. There are billboards for outdoor advertising. Television, radio, and magazine advertisements take residence inside. The new wave of advertising has hit the men’s room. This tactic makes use of that 45-second period men spend idle while relieving themselves. Nowhere is safe.

I have given up listening to the radio. Listening music through this medium just doesn’t seem worth the fifteen-minute commercial break every thirty minutes. And I am convinced that they have it timed so that they are all playing commercials at the same time. It’s public radio for me. Advertising is a multi-billion dollar industry taking up over one quarter of the marketplace.

The pop-up ad is not only ineffective it makes me very angry. I click on a link that is supposed to take me to hot and horny co-eds only to solicited by penis enlarging products that reduce my debt. I think these things should be illegal.

Billboards! I could do with a few less of them.

Supposably all new construction of BB's were banned in Calif. There must be a loophole. I'm just glad those florida style 3in1 boards haven't shown up here yet.

Those ones that span over the entire interstate? Yeah those suck

I don't know whether the length of adverts on US TV are longer or not. I do know however that they are far, far more irritating.

I would far rather have a three/four 3 minute breaks an hour (with one or two of them coming between individual shows) than the American approach. How bloody annoying is it to sit down to watch a show to get two minutes into to it to suddenly find yourself in a (short) ad break again. At least in the UK when you sit down to watch something you know that you will have 20 minutes to watch uninterrupted and then a handy break long enough to make a cuppa in

then a handy break long enough to make a cuppa in

They don't make cuppas in America

They don't make cuppas in America

...and now we know why, their ad breaks aren't long enough

What is more amusing is watching a show which has ad-breaks designed in but are not used - in the Simpsons they are not usually that obvious but in some older shows (eg. MacGyver, The A-Team, Fresh Prince, yes I still watch them occasionally) you get some incidental music and a fade-to-black and then it fading back in straight away! 24 was quite good because apparently all the ad-breaks were around the clock ticking bits, so when it was shown on BBC2 it was just a nice break between scenes.

Gareth

It doesn't even take a particularly high voltage, just a reasonably high frequency. It is, for example, technically possible to monitor traffic over ethernet via radiated emissions at quite a distance. Granted, it takes very sensitive equipment, but it's possible. TV or video is simple by comparison, especially since they're never actively shielded anyway.

That said, 99% of the TV detector vans are dummies, I seem to recall there's only perhaps 2 real ones in existence. They just send out demands to everyone without a license on the basis that you must have a TV. In addition, when you purchase a new video recorder, TV set, or DVD player, the shop is required by law to note your name and address which is passed along to the TV licensing people. The license covers up to 3 TVs per household, and portable receivers are exempt if they are entirely battery powered and have a screen size below (I think) 4 inches.

Note that while shops are required to take a name and address, they never check it and don't care if it's not YOUR name and address

pca

If folks want to learn more about remote TV detection, there's been some fantastic work done by Markus Kuhn and Ross Anderson at Cambridge University. Check out:

Optical Time-Domain Eavesdropping Risks of CRT Displays, wherein somebody can see what you're seeing on your TV simply by watching the reflected color of your TV set from your window.

Soft Tempest: Hidden Data Transmission Using Electromagnetic Emanations, wherein the authors note that horizontal pixel antialiasing makes it harder for your TV to be detected, but makes for an interesting anti-piracy opportunity: having your computer broadcast your license numbers in the high-frequency pixel information!

Woah. I'd better buy an LCD monitor soon or the spooks will know that I spend most of my day on this BBS!

I'd better buy an LCD monitor soon or the spooks will know that I spend most of my day on this BBS!

Believe me, they already know...



pca

Markus Kuhn

Now there's a genius.... he wrote the software which broke the encryption on VideoCrypt, used on the Sky analogue satellite system. It was called "Season 7" because of the reason why it was cracked. There followed a couple of card re-issues before they came up with a decent algorithm that would have probably lasted a very long time had Sky Digital not replaced the entire analogue system.

Gareth

AFAICR, he developed the Season interface because Sky were showing STTNG ahead of the German channels

They just send out demands to everyone without a license on the basis that you must have a TV.

Actually, I got a letter like that just a few days ago. It stated that i should go pay up if I have a Radio and/or Color TV, otherwise they will come visit some time this spring.
I don't have a TV (I *do* have a video and a projector but... that's not a Color TV, right? ;-), and I don't ever listen to radio. If by some freak accident I actually watch TV, it's not DR1 or DR2 (similar to BBC, they get 98% of the revenue from the tax (~300 Euro/year/household), no ads, but there's TV-shop on DR2 at night... yuck!).

At least here in Denmark, there's the nice little legal twist that if they come check me out, I am not required to let them in unless they have a court order and a cop with them.

Regardless, I'll probably swap the Reciever with my Amp/Preamp combo and stuff the video and the Surround Reciever in the attic, just to be 100% sure.

At least here in Denmark, there's the nice little legal twist that if they come check me out, I am not required to let them in unless they have a court order and a cop with them.

Same in the UK. Well, they need a warrant. I don't know about needing the cop.

I'm not sure how I should word this correctly, but they need the cop there to check that they don't step beyond what's stated in the warrant. Like if they're checking you out for not paying your TV Tax, they're not allowed to check you computer for illegally downloaded movies/music or look for drugs.

I dispute the premise that the BBC does not carry commercials, they carry copious commercials......for the BBC, they irritate the hell out of me.

Even worse on BBC7, they have commercials to point out how great it is that they don't have commercials. Every 6.00 news carries a trailer for programming later in the evening.
However, that isn't to say that they don't, generally do a good job....a few less makeover programmes would be an advantage....and why are we thought to be obsessed by news gathering, is it by TV journalists for TV journalists?...a great deal of it is predictive anyway: Couldn't we just have what's happened and what's happening, not what the government are going to announce a week on tuesday?

I never watch commercial television, I always record it and jump through the breaks later, I record the news every six'o'clock, so I can wind through what I'm not interested in, special reports...another insidious item that's crept into news broadcasts, and stuff I've heard every hour and half hour throughout the day.

Rant Over, and none of this is, in any sense due to my having my transmitter and tape recorder confiscated by the General Post Office, for pirate transmitting in the 60's - putting the aerial up the fire escape of the BBC building in Wood Lane was a dare and, in retrospect, an error of judgement.

Rant Over, and none of this is, in any sense due to my having my transmitter and tape recorder confiscated by the General Post Office, for pirate transmitting in the 60's - putting the aerial up the fire escape of the BBC building in Wood Lane was a dare and, in retrospect, an error of judgement.

LOL. How long did it take them to notice?

not what the government are going to announce a week on tuesday?

That'll be down to the government mostly, and its culture of spin.

I record the news every six'o'clock

I get my news from http://news.bbc.co.uk/ and I'm always disappointed when nothing else has happened by 6pm. Basically, I'm giving up my TV addiction for an Internet addiction...

I need updating here, but I am hoping that ITV & C5 etc are still not running the infamous "Erectile Dsyfunction" type ads yet???

If you've got a view on the BBC then let them know, there's a review of the BBCs charter going on and they're looking for peoples view on the BBC & it's future, you can see some of the responses they've already had. unbelievably they're mostly negative, so if like me you LOVE the BBC send your comments to:

bbccharterreview@culture.gsi.gov.uk

the website to see other peoples views is:

http://www.bbccharterreview.org.uk/consultation/responses.html

so if like me you LOVE the BBC

Don't get mewrong,Ithinkit'sthebestofallpossibleoptions

that'siti'moffouttogetanewkeyboard,catchupwithyoualllater.

How long did it take them to notice

Ahhh, back in business!
It's over 40 years ago, but if my memory serves me well, some weeks, maybe 3 to 4 - I've always suspected the BBC sussed it out and let the authorities know, all that held them up was that they couldn't believe it was coming from a BBC building! The transmitter wasn't actually mine, it was ex-military and came from one of the surplus shops, that were in profusion at the time, for £3.50 - some guys we knew tweeked the frequency.

The tape recorder was more serious, it was a Ferrograph - all I could afford afterwards was a cheapo reel to reel from a high street shop.

Most people doing this at the time were campaigning for more variety in broadcasting, we only had 3 BBC stations, we were operating at a tangent, we were under the impression that the populus needed four hours of blues every evening - they weren't ready for it!

I suppose we were the 60's equivalent of hackers - getting caught smoking pot and getting girls pregnant were about the only other two things we feared!

If you've got a view on the BBC then let them know

Drop Linda Barker is about all I can think of, she irritates me to hell

Who the bloody hell's Linda Barker?

While looking in google for "hate linda barker", I came across this message board:

http://www.dogbomb.co.uk/board/showthread.php?threadid=3391

While looking in google for "hate linda barker", I came across this message board:

http://www.dogbomb.co.uk/board/showthread.php?threadid=3391

Don't hold back do they? Sadly I've never seen the programme but I might now..

Don't hold back do they?

The Leonardo Di Caprio thread is better .

Lord DFS, whatever the f his name is, has just moved in round the corner, maybe I should communicate our views!
I'll never go near Currys again......Oh, I never went before......or is it Dixons, she's so frigging anNoying, I can't even think what she represents.

I'm told we're shortly getting " the making of Charlie's Angels", a programme so bad, we won't even remember Linda Barker!