Posted by: Dylan
This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing)
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 18:25
...be hard to nail it better!...especially like the secession suggestion; it's clearly two different countries, if not alternate views of reality...
Posted by: peter
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 18:30
Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics? The red-states/blue-states map looks very tidily geographically split, and the last time there was such a tidy geographical voting split in the UK (the Thatcher era: England Conservative, Scotland Labour) the Scots got really pretty serious about secession. I just wonder whether it's a tired old "can't happen" in the US, or whether it's actually conceivable to some people...
Peter
Peter
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 18:31
Quote:
Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics?
Yes. You may remember this little war we had in the early 1860s....
Posted by: peter
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 18:34
Quote:
Yes. You may remember this little war we had in the early 1860s....
Even my limited grasp on US history goes that far. I sort of meant modern US politics...Peter
Posted by: Daria
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 18:52
I made that observation earlier, and I went back and looked at election totals.
The problem is as you get further from the northeast, the country becomes more rural, and it breaks down almost to rural versus urban. Not completely, as you get further south that matters less. But the point is basically that it's harder to look at things as 2 countries when, as in areas like this, you realize it means you'd be in one and people not far away in another. You have a lot in common, not everything, mind you, but a lot. Why do you belong in 2 countries?
I will echo my earlier point about hating, which Jerz took issue with. It's still there. It's not everyone, not nearly. It's just too many people hating "the other side" for not agreeing, winners and losers. One side accuses the other of being stupid, or biased, or treating them like children, or whatever. My neighbors all already think I'm weird, and they're right, but I doubt any hate me because I voted for Kerry; Likewise, there are a few I'd guess voted for Bush, though they weren't in your face about it. Doesn't bother me. But the hate isn't even at that level, usually. It's easier to hate a large, faceless entity which doesn't think like you than it is to hate the guy that lives next to you, that works across from you, your brother-in-law, whatever.
The problem is as you get further from the northeast, the country becomes more rural, and it breaks down almost to rural versus urban. Not completely, as you get further south that matters less. But the point is basically that it's harder to look at things as 2 countries when, as in areas like this, you realize it means you'd be in one and people not far away in another. You have a lot in common, not everything, mind you, but a lot. Why do you belong in 2 countries?
I will echo my earlier point about hating, which Jerz took issue with. It's still there. It's not everyone, not nearly. It's just too many people hating "the other side" for not agreeing, winners and losers. One side accuses the other of being stupid, or biased, or treating them like children, or whatever. My neighbors all already think I'm weird, and they're right, but I doubt any hate me because I voted for Kerry; Likewise, there are a few I'd guess voted for Bush, though they weren't in your face about it. Doesn't bother me. But the hate isn't even at that level, usually. It's easier to hate a large, faceless entity which doesn't think like you than it is to hate the guy that lives next to you, that works across from you, your brother-in-law, whatever.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:08
Quote:Nah. The two sides provide balance. And really if there were two countries, geography doesn't matter so much. People would probably gravitate toward the country that lines up with their views the best. But I think the red would end up with the big military and ultimately just invade the blue!
...be hard to nail it better!...especially like the secession suggestion; it's clearly two different countries, if not alternate views of reality...
Also, once succession started happening I'd bet Texas would just go it alone. I think we've been just waiting for such an excuse anyway!
Posted by: loren
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:31
Here's a much more interesting map. . . county by county. Take California for instance. The coastal areas are predominately urban and went Kerry, but the rural East of the state went mostly Bush. The cut wouldn't be neat by any means on any coast. I doubt the federal gov't would ever allow it to happen anyway.
Posted by: siberia37
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:31
Quote:
Is the secession thing a well-explored idea in US politics? The red-states/blue-states map looks very tidily geographically split, and the last time there was such a tidy geographical voting split in the UK (the Thatcher era: England Conservative, Scotland Labour) the Scots got really pretty serious about secession. I just wonder whether it's a tired old "can't happen" in the US, or whether it's actually conceivable to some people...
Peter
I don't think the seperation isn't as much red vs blue states as rural vs urban. States with large urban centers go democratic while more rural- and southern states go GGG (Gods, gays, guns). This is particularly evident looking at the county by county election map on CNN's website for the swing states like Ohio, Missouri, Iowa etc... All the blue is concentrated in urban areas- everything else is red. The interesting thing is the U.S. like most countries is getting more urban- so eventually the GOP are probably going have to deal with the same geographic problems the Democrats have now. Not to mention the fact my generation and younger are less reiligous and more accepting of gays- so the GGG issue cannot hold up forever.
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:32
Quote:
But I think the red would end up with the big military and ultimately just invade the blue!
Also, once succession started happening I'd bet Texas would just go it alone. I think we've been just waiting for such an excuse anyway!
May we hold the door for you?
I've thought Alaska should secede since before we became a state, though the majority now, who came from Texas & Oklahoma during the pipeline boom (the Visigoths came and sacked Rome...) probably wouldn't agree. If the blue states lose a war, we'd just apply for foreign aid like everybody else, though reconstruction of conquered countries ain't what it used to be...
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:36
Wow. Not only a new woman, but a new Alaskan, too. You're hitting all the minorities!
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:42
Quote:
I doubt the federal gov't would ever allow it to happen anyway.
Right...the federal government controlled by those who always purported to believe in smaller, less intrusive federal government---until the Right took power!
On Topic: given the vistas of virtually limitless causes for griping and debating now opening before us, maybe a separate political Off Topic*is*an idea whose time has come...?
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:45
Quote:
Wow. Not only a new woman, but a new Alaskan, too. You're hitting all the minorities!
A new native Alaskan woman (with a small "n"), really a minority...!
Posted by: phi144
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 19:53
I was looking at that map yesterday. Interesting.
Posted by: Daria
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 23:31
Actually, this one tells the tale better.
Posted by: Daria
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 04/11/2004 23:34
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 00:07
...one doesn't show either Alaska or Hawaii, and we've only been states for 45 & 44 years...and the other shows nobody home in Alaska..we're a figment of someone's imagination?
Posted by: Daria
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 00:21
Maybe at 50, you'll count
Posted by: Daria
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 00:32
Of course, the last 2 were serious, whereas this one is offensive; I got all 3 from people I know that I used to go to school with, back in the "go-go 90s"
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 00:59
Quote:
This pretty much sums up how I feel
Ah, yup.
And from the high-brow Daily Mirror : Or is the reason simply that America is incompetent? That behind the bluff they are frightened and clueless, which is why they've stayed with the devil they know.
Posted by: genixia
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 02:13
Wow - that really is quite high-brow for The Mirror. They even used 4 syllable words. 
Posted by: JeffS
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 04:05
Quote:Hey, now. Texas is a great place to live! Ya'll should be so lucky
May we hold the door for you?
But I didn't mean to impley that I want to leave the union. Just that I haven't been to any other state (granted, I haven't been to them all) where people seem to have as much pride in where they live. It's kind of unnearving at times, especially the fact that apparently you are required to have an opinion on whether Ford or Chevy makes better trucks to even be a resident!
Posted by: blitz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 12:15
Quote:
Ford or Chevy
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
Posted by: Roger
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 13:23
Quote:
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
A vote for Dodge is a wasted vote
.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 13:23
Quote:Heh, no, but all I ever hear is "Ford!" or "Chevy!" Dodge and GMC just don't ever seem to come up, though I see people driving them all of the time. Now Toyota is another story!
Are you discriminating against Dodge owners?
The truck you drive seems to be a religion around here, though I don't really get it. My wife drove a GMC truck when we first met, and now she drives a Ford Escape. Her brother-in-law had an absolute fit when she did it, but it's been one of the best purchases we've ever made.
I don't drive a truck, nor do I want to. I'm happy with my mustang and its two DINs (see where my priorities are?)
Posted by: blitz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 13:48
I bought a Viper a couple of months ago and it's fun... although kind of scary.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 14:04
Quote:LOL!
A vote for Dodge is a wasted vote
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 18:19
Quote:
Just that I haven't been to any other state (granted, I haven't been to them all) where people seem to have as much pride in where they live.
I had the impression you had[/h] been to Alaska.... It's a state of mind, which I inhabit even when I'm not there. And Texas may be analogous in that way; few people seem to feel such identity with Ohio or Nevada,etc.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 18:42
Quote:Nope, not yet, anyway. I hope to one day, with one goal of actually getting to sit down with Doug and hash out all of the problems of the world through our mostly incompatible viewpoints!
I had the impression you had been to Alaska
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 18:50
Quote:
I hope to one day, with one goal of actually getting to sit down with Doug and hash out all of the problems of the world through our mostly incompatible viewpoints
Make it in summer (most likely...!) and you can sort us both out!
Posted by: mcomb
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 05/11/2004 21:14
Quote:
I hope to one day, with one goal of actually getting to sit down with Doug and hash out all of the problems of the world through our mostly incompatible viewpoints!
I'd consider a trip to Alaska just to watch that. You should sell tickets.
Posted by: kayakjazz
Re: This pretty much sums up how I feel (warning Bush bashing) - 06/11/2004 00:45
Quote:
I'd consider a trip to Alaska just to watch that. You should sell tickets.
Im quite sure that would be worth the price of admission!
