Question about Sony remotes

Does anyone know if the codes for the RM-X4S are the same as for a Sony IR remote. I have a PAC SWI-X that I would like to try and hardwire to the riocar tuner. I was thinking of programming it with a Sony IR remote but the tuner hookup accepts the RM-X4S. Before I try to get my hands on a Sony IR remote does anyone know if this would work?

You're mixing apples and oranges.

The Sony RM-X4S and the interface on the tuner are WIRED units that use a resistor network. The SWI-X and sony IR remotes use INFRARED and will not interface with the tuner module at all.

By asking if the RM-X4S is the same an an IR remote, you are stating a non-sequitur. And by asking if you want to wire the SWI-X to the tuner, you are also stating a non-sequitur.

For more details on wired and wireless interfaces, please see this FAQ entry.

Thanks Tony,

I thought the voltage designations sent to an IR LED might be the same as those sent to a hardwired unit but it sounds like there's no chance that is true. I guess I'll mount the LED somewhere then and program with the kenwood IR remote.

Live & Learn
Bob

I thought the voltage designations sent to an IR LED might be the same as those sent to a hardwired unit but it sounds like there's no chance that is true.

Right. Infrared signals are modulated pulses, frequencies of infrared light. The IR codes are actually digital numbers embedded in those frequency pulses.

The wired Sony stalk is much more low-tech, it's just a set of continuous resistor values on the wire.

The two are completely incompatible.

I guess I'll mount the LED somewhere then and program with the kenwood IR remote.

Or better yet with the Rio remote (in case the SWI-X supports Press And Hold functions when it learns).

Why would you want to wire a Sony Wreless IR remote to the Empeg via the Tuner module?

If you install the famous Mark Lord Hijack kernel with inbuilt IR mapping (amoungst its many features) then, provided the Sony RMX5S wireless remote's Ir transmitter is compatible with the IR receiver in the Empeg (which I am not sure about) then you can easily map [and re-map] the codes the various buttons on the Sony wireless remote send to perform whatever functions on the Rio or Kenwood remotes you like.

You can easily find out if the RMX5S is compatible by installing the latest Hijack kernel then going to the Buttons Codes display function in the kernel [push and hold the knob on the empeg in, once the hijack kernel is displayed to get the main hijack menu, and select the 'Button Codes Display' menu option (press the knob once to select)].

then simply activate the buttons and controls on the Sony wireless remote and see if any codes are being reported - if so, then a map will be possible.

If nothing is displayed then the Sony wireless remote is probably not comaptible and would have to be hardwired
via the Tuner or via special IR receiver device such as a small microprocesor e.g. a PIC micro - then you would still have to pretend to the Tuner unit that you were a wired remote...

Either way, if you do this can you report your findings as this information will be useful for the FAQ.
If you get a list of button codes, then someone will be able to help you build the mappings needed to make the Sony IR remote work however you wish with the Empeg.

Thanks number6,

I'll probably hook it up as I described above, but I'll kick around what you posted. If I get anywhere I'll let you know.

Bob

Number6,

It FINALLY struck me what you are saying. Is it possible to hardwire the car's remote wire (the one running from the steering wheel remote to the stock headunit) to the tuner module and use the Buttons Codes display function to read DIRECTLY from the steering wheel button pushes? If this works then no external remote or conversion box would be required. Is there something I am missing?

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Is it possible to hardwire the car's remote wire (the one running from the steering wheel remote to the stock headunit) to the tuner module and use the Buttons Codes display function to read DIRECTLY from the steering wheel button pushes?

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It depends on your car's steering stalk. For instance, I was able to make an adaptor for my Peugeot 405 using the information on RioCar.Org. (Hmm, I thought there used to be circuit diagrams in there, too).

Is it possible to hardwire the car's remote wire (the one running from the steering wheel remote to the stock headunit) to the tuner module and use the Buttons Codes display function to read DIRECTLY from the steering wheel button pushes?

Very very interesting idea.

If your steering wheel buttons are nothing but a set of resistor values (like the Sony stalk), then that might actually work. Might require some additional support from Mark in his kernel, but I would imagine it's possible.

But if your steering wheel is something other than a set of resistor values (for instance if it's a modulated electronic signal of some kind), then not only will it fail, but depending on the voltage carried by the wires you run the risk of damaging the tuner module I think.

Should be fairly easy to test. If you know where the wires are, attach a digital ohm meter to them and look.

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Should be fairly easy to test. If you know where the wires are, attach a digital ohm meter to them and look.

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Er, I'd try a voltmeter first, even though your ohmeter is likely to have overload protection. I might also have a look with an oscilloscope - if I had one.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. If I attach a voltmeter to this wire I should be able to read a unique voltage for each button press...I think. From that I should be able to back calculate resistance.....I think?

If I attach a voltmeter to this wire I should be able to read a unique voltage for each button press...

You should be able to read a unique amount of resistance, measured in ohms, for each button press.

Hi Tony.

Because of the design of the stalk interface, he should also be able to read a certain voltage with a voltmeter. But to do that, he would have to connect it to the tuner module first, which I wouldn't do without some previous measurements. Oh well.

cu,
sven

So here are the resistances coming from my steering wheel:

Volume Up 1270 ohms
Volume Down 294 ohms
Mute 823 ohms
Seek Up 715 ohms
Seek Down 1180 ohms
Preset 9350 ohms

Can anyone suggest what to do next. Should I hook up to the tuner module and use the Buttons Codes display function, do I need to adjust the resistor values (which may mean taking apart the steering wheel -rather not) or are there other options. Or is it just not possible.

What I meant was that without knowing the details of the factory stalk, it's possible that it presents a particular voltage on the outputs. I'd test for this first, then look to see if it's a digital (serial) output before assuming it's a Sony-style resistor network.

Toby,

I received the shop manual for my truck and looked under the schematics. The steering wheel remote circuits only show a simple resistor and a blue wire running to the headunit (the resistances for this line are shown in my previous reply). All the serial circuits apear to run thru a single green wire (serial 2 circuits). So I am pretty sure that the steering wheel remote is a simple resistor circuit and not a serial circuit.

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The steering wheel remote circuits only show a simple resistor and a blue wire running to the headunit

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That's good - it's safe to plug into your tuner, then (you may need to add a 3.5mm stereo jack).

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Volume Up	1270 ohms
Volume Down	294 ohms
Mute	823 ohms
Seek Up	715 ohms
Seek Down	1180 ohms
Preset	9350 ohms

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These are all smaller than the Sony, though your 'Preset' button might work as 'Forward track'.

From here, all I can suggest is to see if you can replace the factory resistors with what you need, or to look for a third-party adaptor for your vehicle - or convince a (competent) friend to make you one.

Too cool. So it is just a resistor network.

Maybe there's a way to have the Hijack kernel remap those values. Mark, are you reading this? If Hijack can do this, then it would save some people a lot of expense and hassle with buying intermediate interfaces.

Yep Tony, thats next on Marks (hot)list of things to do.

We have everything documented that Mark needs in order to provide Stalk mappings ala the IR mappings.

Once this is done, then any compatible non-Sony Stalk controller can be used by the unit to control it (or even slightly out of spec Sony Stalk Controllers could be used).

One thing though:
I'd check with the FAQ/developer section to make sure that the pin-outs/wiring of your existing steering wheel remote match that of the Sony Stalk controller (its (but don't quote me) a 3.5mm stereo jack, tip has Resister network value, middle has Shift value, ground has +5V on it).

Once this is done then Yes, it should work.

Of course, Mark actually has to do the kernel related stuff but I'm sure he can manage that within the next couple of weeks.

Right Mark?

Okay, now I'm interested in what's going on with Tod's Durango. If his steering wheel controls are also a plain-old resistor network, then we won't need a third-party interface.

Does anyone know if the Chrysler/Dodge steering wheel buttons are a simple resistor network or not?

Err... yuh, maybe.

Got some Real Work coming in soon perhaps, so there may be a gap in development here for a while. If I actually had a Stalk control, then things would be different. But then again, my only Tuner module is in the home dock, not the car.

Cheers

-ml

/me kicks himself for throwing away his RM-X2S a couple of years ago.

Right Mark,
I'll send you the money via PayPal to go and buy a Sony Stalk control, OR I'll send the money to someone in the US who can buy one and post it to Mark.

I figure its a bit of a thankyou for all the work you've done so far.

re: Tuner module in home docking station - I would have thought that the ideal place for hacking the Stalk control would be in the home docking station - however if having a Tuner module in your car would be a help, I have a spare Tuner module I can lend you for as long as you need it.

I know the Tuner modules are worth more than empegs these days but its a risk to enable the Sony Stalk Interface to be used to its full potential.

And, with some 3rd party steering wheel controls being also Resistor network based then this gives them the chance to benefit as well without having to buy expsensive adapters.

So, any takers?

http://store.clubgp.com/itemview.asp?itemid=59

The SoundGate GMSW1 lets you retain the use of the factory steering-wheel audio controls on late model General Motors vehicles when installing any SONY RM-X2S or RM-X4S compatible receiver or CD player (including the SONY ES product line)! This is a hard wired solution and does not require an infrared remote control

95$ or so there, there probably can be found better prices...

Unfortunately the GMSW1 application guide does not work with a 2001 Yukon Denali or many other new GMs. Their website lists other GMSW#s but they have to be custom made. Besides I think we can find a way to link the steering wheel remote directly with the riocar tuner that would be awesome (plus its fun to do and I'm learning quite a bit!)

Thanks Chao

number6,

I'd be willing to split the cost with you. Since I'm in the US I could order one from crutchfield and ship it to Mark or send him half the cost by paypal also. (If that's acceptable with him). It's definitely worth it to try this out.

If you guys want to help, the best way I think would be for a stalk to arrive in my mailbox. That method saves me the most time, which is my most limited commodity at the moment.

Thanks

Rtundo - thanks can you you get Mark Lords shipping address from him, and get your local Crutchfield to ship him a Sony Stalk Conjrol.

Let me know my share of the cost and I'll Paypal you the money (better yet, send a paypal invoice for the amount to PayPal ID ebayuser@farsight.co.nz).

If anyone else offers to pony up for a share we can split it n ways. Right now 2 ways is better than 1 way.

number6.......sounds good

Mark,
If you email me your address we can make this happen

Bob

Bump,

Rtundo - Any luck with Mark Lords address yet?

Mark, if you're listening, can you drop a email to rtundo or me with your postal address so we can arrange a Stalk control to arrive in your location RSN (Real Soon NowTM)

number6,

tuner was sent out to mlord Friday via Crutchfield (see private message)

Quick update:

Apparently any car that utilizes the GREEN WIRE on the SWI-X steering wheel adaptor use unique resistors for each steering wheel remote button. When the button is pushed the wire reads 12V when released it reads Ov (paraphrased from SWI-X instructions). So if mlord can interface these unique resistances to the tuner we are in business!